Force feedback Joystick from Moza

[Aapje]

1 hour ago, Dogmanbird said:

Even after all the youtube reviews, no one really discusses anything beyond being overwhelmed by the feeling of ffb  but maybe that's a condition moza set when the base was sent to them?

I think that a big issue is that they just picked popular Youtubers, even though many of them don't have the expertise or time to test it properly.

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

3 hours ago, Dogmanbird said:

Even after all the youtube reviews, no one really discusses anything beyond being overwhelmed by the feeling of ffb  but maybe that's a condition moza set when the base was sent to them?

As a user of 2 FFB sticks (third coming in some time -- in the future!) it is not a new thing but it is revived lately and it is natural for people get excited. And for contents creation goes, it is nature that you can only show or review a piece of hardware so much, then it goes behind the scene. The longest series I could find is a British guy who gets his hand on a Rhino with 3 to 4 videos.

To me, no it does not improve my flying, only a combination of practice, learning, reflection helps. FFB makes it easier since you get more than just visual and audio feedbacks. It is exciting as it is immersive.

Believe it or not, my Moza base is from my very own pocket -- who cares about a YouTuber who doesn't earn a penny from the channel? And I know a couple of people who are also like me, one even has the other modern FFB stick out there. He has some videos about Moza. I think his opinions worth checking out Hint: he is Spanish-speaking.

I am definitely keeping Moza, even may be later solely for the planes with HOTAS on the right. Well, it is less expensive than most solutions out there for a dedicated MFSSB device.

As for the promised project, I think I am working on some other piece of software which shall-not-be-named first, then I will attempt it with the goal of not breaking the base. Stress testing a piece of £400+ hardware has no place in this household. I can say normal chopter flying, like manually flying and hovering the Ka-50III for over 50 minutes, had disappointingly failed to warm my legs in this cold winter.

Later.

Edited December 7, 2024 by VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants

[SilentOtto]

I've been playing with my own base since yesterday. I've attached a preset made with Open AI based on data found on the Internet for the DCS Bf-109K/*. Have fun

* - I've turned off the spring, dumper and axis force.

109K.zip

Edited December 11, 2024 by SilentOtto
Resolved

[Biggus]

6 hours ago, SilentOtto said:

I've been playing with my own base since yesterday. I've attached a preset made with Open AI based on data found on the Internet for the DCS Bf-109K/*. Have fun

* - I've turned off the spring, dumper and axis force.

109K.zip 1.76 kB · 0 downloads

That's an interesting idea.  Would you mind sharing your workflow to develop the profile?

[SilentOtto]

21 hours ago, Biggus said:

That's an interesting idea.  Would you mind sharing your workflow to develop the profile?

Of course, I can. In the first prompt, I told OpenAI to find all available information about the aircraft's characteristics. In the next prompt, I pasted a *.json file exported from Moza Cockpit and told AI to learn and modify it according to the acquired knowledge. Then it created its own. I used the free version of OpenAI. The profile seems to work correctly, but I don't know how it should really be, because I'm not a pilot. You can see the AI working in the attached video.

Edited December 12, 2024 by SilentOtto
Resolved

[MAXsenna]

Of course, I can. In the first prompt, I told OpenAI to find all available information about the aircraft's characteristics. In the next prompt, I pasted a *.json file exported from Moza Cockpit and told AI to learn and modify it according to the acquired knowledge. Then it created its own. I used the free version of OpenAI. The profile seems to work correctly, but I don't know how it should really be, because I'm not a pilot. You can see the AI working in the attached video.

This is really cool!

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[Biggus]

@SilentOtto I'm going to echo @MAXsenna, it's incredibly cool.  Thank you very much for sharing!

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

We can start making more profiles like MB-339A and even enhance existing ones. 

[Mr_sukebe]

On 12/12/2024 at 8:31 PM, SilentOtto said:

Of course, I can. In the first prompt, I told OpenAI to find all available information about the aircraft's characteristics. In the next prompt, I pasted a *.json file exported from Moza Cockpit and told AI to learn and modify it according to the acquired knowledge. Then it created its own. I used the free version of OpenAI. The profile seems to work correctly, but I don't know how it should really be, because I'm not a pilot. You can see the AI working in the attached video.

 

That’s bloody clever.  Love the out of the box solution!

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

On 12/12/2024 at 8:31 PM, SilentOtto said:

I told OpenAI to find all available information about the aircraft's characteristics. In the next prompt, I pasted a *.json file exported from Moza Cockpit and told AI to learn and modify it according to the acquired knowledge

Further question:

The first part asking ChatGPT of researching is easy, but how to teach the AI to learn and then put in the proper parameters in form of a JSON profile file is the part I do not quite get.

Thank you for sharing.

[SilentOtto]

7 hours ago, VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants said:

Further question:

The first part asking ChatGPT of researching is easy, but how to teach the AI to learn and then put in the proper parameters in form of a JSON profile file is the part I do not quite get.

Thank you for sharing.

You talk to the AI like you would to a human, so there is no single right path to achieving your goal. You can paste the contents of a file and have it familiarize itself with it, then ask the AI if it understands what it is. Then have it insert corrections there according to what it has found or will find on the web. You have to experiment with prompts. The simple rule is: write or speak as if to a human, and the more accurate the better.

Edited December 16, 2024 by SilentOtto
Resolved

[Byzantine_SK]

Anyone else suddenly lost telemetry in their Moza FFB? I don’t think it’s a pathing issue.. I also lost telemetry with my Buttkicker using sim shaker software. 

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

3 hours ago, SilentOtto said:

You talk to the AI like you would to a human, so there is no single right path to achieving your goal.

Thanks. Is there anyway to check if the final JSON file is correct or not?

[SilentOtto]

1 hour ago, VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants said:

Thanks. Is there anyway to check if the final JSON file is correct or not?

The AI responds to the question by describing what changes it has made and why (movie above). But unless you are a real pilot... Trust and pray.

 Personally, I trust the AI more than myself on this matter.

Edited December 16, 2024 by SilentOtto
Resolved

[Parrotnut]

Thanks for the tip SilentOtto.

If you have a X (Twitter) account, you can ask "Grok" if it wants to make a json file for the Moza AB9. This is what i asked: 

"Could you create a JSON file for the Moza AB9 for the AH-64D Apache in DCS that corresponds to the real-world forces?"

Pass the text you get from Grok in Notepad++ and save it as a json file.

The FFB feels pretty good to me.

 

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

just "@Grok"?

 

[Parrotnut]

17 hours ago, VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants said:

just "@Grok"?

 

"Grok 2" Is de AI of X ( Twitter )

If you open X website you see "Grok" on the left side in the menu.

[SilentOtto]

GROK vs. OpenAI, same prompt for F-5E. 
Short is GROK

Edited December 18, 2024 by SilentOtto
Resolved

[Bucic]

Any attempts of actually validating the AI output?

[SilentOtto]

I don't feel competent to say what is good.

F5_Tiger.json - by Open AI

F5E.json - by Crazy Andy, explanation -> https://discord.com/channels/976306826947743766/1300240282134249495

 

 

F5E.json F5_Tiger.json

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

7 hours ago, Parrotnut said:

If you open X website you see "Grok" on the left side in the menu.

I use the app, that's why I cannot see it. Thanks.

3 hours ago, SilentOtto said:

ROK vs. OpenAI, same prompt for F-5E

When you say OpenAI, is it ChatGPT?

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

Tried F-15E, both comes with "disclaimer"....

Grok:

Quote

 

Please note, this JSON is conceptual and would need real-world data and testing to ensure it accurately reflects the forces experienced in actual F-15E operations. You would also need to calibrate these settings within the Moza software and possibly within DCS to get the right balance. The actual implementation might require adjustments based on user feedback, hardware specifics, and the simulation software's capabilities.

For further details or actual calibration, you might refer to posts from the DCS community or the MOZA forums discussing the integration of their hardware with specific aircraft models like the F-15E.

OpenAI/ChatGPT:
 

Quote

 

How to Adjust:

    Real-World Data: If you have access to specific force data for the F-15E (such as from a real-world flight manual or simulator), you can adjust the values accordingly.
    Testing: You may need to adjust the curves and forces based on testing in DCS to match how the aircraft feels during gameplay. The force curves are highly customizable depending on your preference and what feels most realistic.

This JSON configuration can then be imported into DCS or into any software you are using to configure the Moza AB9 force feedback settings.

 

Enclosed the files for your reference.

grok f15e.json openai f15e.json

[SilentOtto]

17 hours ago, VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants said:

When you say OpenAI, is it ChatGPT?

Yes.

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

Unfortunately, both AI generated profiles cannot be imported directly. 

[Scott-S6]

On 12/17/2024 at 5:26 PM, Parrotnut said:

"Could you create a JSON file for the Moza AB9 for the AH-64D Apache in DCS that corresponds to the real-world forces?"

How could it do that when the real forces are far beyond (~10x) what the stick can produce?

Edited December 21, 2024 by Scott-S6