Force feedback Joystick from Moza

[Mr_sukebe]

Attaching mine into my cockpit took some time, but got there in the end. I've centre mounted it and I'm using a 20cm swam neck extension with a Virpil alpha grip.

The easy bit was the Moza software. Fire it up, upgrade it, select the game and an aircraft profile and jump in.
The more time consuming job being the re-mapping needed in DCS.  Not helped by DCS happily applying it's own ideas on mapping.  

"Hey, why don't I we use the mini-stick on your Virpil grip as a rudder?  Sure, we can see that you have a dedicated set of rudder pedals, but let's do it anyway...".

Come on ED, PLEASE give us the option to disable these being applied.

 

Took a Huey and a Spitfire out for a spin.
Using the provided profiles, both felt good. The Spit could do we some finessing, as the extension is effectively reducing the torque felt at the grip. Very amusing to see what happens when you stall in a vertical climb, as the controls just loose all weight.
The Huey impressed me more, felt really natural (which as I'm NOT a real chopper pilot, is a bit of a weird thing to think).

In short, as a unit, seems good. It'll clearly take some tweaking to get the best from it, and we're in early days.

Oh, that's interesting, just turned the AB9 off and the stick goes all limp.  That's actually really useful as it makes it easier to get in an out of my cockpit seat.

Edited October 25, 2024 by Mr_sukebe

[Hammer1-1]

9 minutes ago, Mr_sukebe said:

Oh, that's interesting, just turned the AB9 off and the stick goes all limp.  That's actually really useful as it makes it easier to get in an out of my cockpit seat.

so basically you just turned on The Golden Girls to get out of your seat.

[Biggus]

DHL have picked my AB9 up from Moza in Hong Kong and I've got an expected delivery date of November 1.  Getting quite excited reading about everyone else's experiences.  I've spent the morning re-rigging my floor mounted extrusion setup to accomodate the extra height, both with a 200mm extension and without.

Note to self - 200mm extension on WarBRD with the TM stick is not something I want to try again.

 

I've asked Moza about the possibility of a Winwing adapter.  The software is apparently usable right now and we're just waiting on a hardware solution.

 

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

Any preference or experience with profiles to use with FC3 Red planes?

[Mr_sukebe]

Further updates.

Decided that I didn’t like using it with the 20cm extension, which meant remounting at a higher point.  
That was fine, but as I’m using a car seat (without a cutout), the length of the base meant that the grip was uncomfortably far away.

The solution being to turn the base amount 90 degrees.  Happily, DCS was happy to recognise the axes being exchanged.

So, happy with the updated location, back to mapping another 40 aircraft.

[MAXsenna]

Further updates.
Decided that I didn’t like using it with the 20cm extension, which meant remounting at a higher point.  
That was fine, but as I’m using a car seat (without a cutout), the length of the base meant that the grip was uncomfortably far away.
The solution being to turn the base amount 90 degrees.  Happily, DCS was happy to recognise the axes being exchanged.
So, happy with the updated location, back to mapping another 40 aircraft.

Why didn't you like the extension? To large deflection?

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[Rosebud47]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Mr_sukebe:

Further updates.

Decided that I didn’t like using it with the 20cm extension, which meant remounting at a higher point.  
That was fine, but as I’m using a car seat (without a cutout), the length of the base meant that the grip was uncomfortably far away.

The solution being to turn the base amount 90 degrees.  Happily, DCS was happy to recognise the axes being exchanged.

So, happy with the updated location, back to mapping another 40 aircraft.

That´s, what I would have expected with a 20cm extension. Currently I´m a using 15cm extension centered seat position ( 10cm extension + 5 cm extension on a Virpil mongoose cm2 base ) and with the new AB9 base just wanted to move the grip a bit closer with the 20cm swan neck extension. 

After reading your experience, I would rather go with a 10cm straight extension to not eliminate the feedback forces of the AB9.

Turning the base about 90° and swapping x/y axis is quite creative - is it really that simple to get the grip closer to the body? No negative effect in doing so?  

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

2 hours ago, Mr_sukebe said:

The solution being to turn the base amount 90 degrees.  Happily, DCS was happy to recognise the axes being exchanged.

This is a marvellous idea! Since my so called floor "mount" is very moveable, I can try it first thing tomorrow.

[Mr_sukebe]

I wasn't sure if the software would allow it to work whilst turned 90 degrees, but once I'd swapped the axes, it worked perfectly.

The extension had a few pros and cons:

 - Being a swan neck, it was easier to get the grip closer to my position, which I liked.  Even with the base turned 90 degrees, I'm not 100% happy

 - Removing it seems to have improved the "feel" from the FFB effect

It's worth remembering the distance between the mount for the grip, and the gimball is likely to be a good deal further than say a Virpil CM, so by default, the unit probably has by default the equivalent of a 10cm extension.  Adding the 20cm to it did seem to make the range of extension overly large.

I'm wondering whether I can angle the unit a little towards me, to help even further on the comfort levels.

[Mr_sukebe]

For reference, with DCS, the software currently has default presets for the A10c, F14, F4E, F16c, F18c, Mi24, P51, Spitfire.

I've not found a way to enable the Moza software to auto-detect what plane I'm flying, so if you change aircraft in game, you need to open the software to manually change it.  Probably a good thing in some ways as that makes it easier to use say the Mi24 preset with the other choppers.

Having sorted the bindings for my warbirds, choppers and the F4, I took the Mi8 and F4 out for a fly.

Yes, it's definitely VERY cool and at least for myself, worth the effort and expense.  I have been using a jetseat for probably 4-5 years, and this nicely adds to the feel.  

[Rifter]

3 hours ago, Mr_sukebe said:

The solution being to turn the base amount 90 degrees.

Since I don't have any Virpil equipment: The grip can (apparently) be rotated 90 degree to match the rotated base connector?

[Mr_sukebe]

9 hours ago, Rifter said:

Since I don't have any Virpil equipment: The grip can (apparently) be rotated 90 degree to match the rotated base connector?

That’s how I’m using it.

it was no more complex than loosen the locking nut, twist and re-lock

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

Turned the base to 90 degrees, with power button on the left, tested F-14B, F/A-18C and F-4E and then turned it back. I have a 20cm goose-neck extension.

Good mostly physical part:

1. Much comfortable in using the HOTAS, as I have an Ikea "sofa" without any cut-out. In my setup, it was really comfortable to pull and not so bad when pushing.

2. The rudder and the keyboards could also get closer tool.

Not so good:

1. On F-14B and F-4E, when started flying, the stick tilted to the left! (which was "forward" in Y-axis), I don't think it has something to do with software but I have no idea which part, not so much on the F/A-18C though. Strange.

Edited October 27, 2024 by VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants

[MAXsenna]

Turned the base to 90 degrees, with power button on the left, tested F-14B, F/A-18C and F-4E and then turned it back. I have a 20cm goose-neck extension.
Good mostly physical part:
1. Much comfortable in using the HOTAS, as I have an Ikea "sofa" without any cut-out. In my setup, it was really comfortable to pull and not so bad when pushing.
2. The rudder and the keyboards could also get closer tool.
Not so good:
1. On F-14B and F-4E, when started flying, the stick tilted to the left! (which was "forward" in Y-axis), I don't think it has something to do with software but I have no idea which part, not so much on the F/A-18C though. Strange.

Have you chosen FFB trim in the Tomcay's special settings?
You may need or may not need to swap around FFB axis in the Control Settings under each module.

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[Pikey]

On 10/25/2024 at 5:18 PM, Deezle said:

I'm using a 20cm Virpil extension with a TMWH grip, works great.

FWIW exactly same, also works great.

To note, if people are wondering about general "placement and setup" then the box it arrives in is perfect with the Moza AB9 on top of that and a 20cm extension from Virpil is exactly at hand height.

I would add though, that  this puts it in collision with any standard desk height (its about on the trigger height - ouch) With 20cm stick and on the box, its got considerable forward and rearward displacement you need to deal with by bringing it away from the desk. This will make you want to cut holes in your chairs.

[Nightdare]

...so, has Moza updated the firmware to enable Virpil brake axis?

[Mr_sukebe]

15 minutes ago, Nightdare said:

...so, has Moza updated the firmware to enable Virpil brake axis?

Nope, not yet, but they have mentioned it on their website

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

2 hours ago, MAXsenna said:

Have you chosen FFB trim in the Tomcay's special settings?
You may need or may not need to swap around FFB axis in the Control Settings under each module.

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk
 

Yes, special settings have been set. It worked properly before. I did swapped the axis, x for pitch and y for roll, but the stick is still tilt forward when in flight, not when the profile is loaded. I guess it may be the plane was programmed to "push y-axis" when in-flight. The fun thing is so far F/A-18C is not affected by the swap.

 

Edited October 27, 2024 by VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

I think I need to talk to Heatblur.

[MAXsenna]

1 hour ago, VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants said:

I did swapped the axis, x for pitch and y for roll,

I don't have the Moza, so I can only attest to what works for my MS FFB2. 

1 hour ago, VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants said:

but the stick is still tilt forward when in flight, not when the profile is loaded.

The Moza profile? Well DCS doesn't apply any FFB before flight. Even if HB has great FFB implementation, they have some issues with trim when entering a module. It's too far forward. Been asked/repeated many times, so don't ask me why this has been an issue for years.

1 hour ago, VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants said:

The fun thing is so far F/A-18C is not affected by the swap.

The real F-18 doesn't move the stick when trimming. I guess that's why.

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

It may not about trimming at all, it could be that Heatblur just hardcode Y-axis moving forward in flight. Will try "swap axis" before writing to Heatblur. Because no other plane, helicopter has this problem. Now I need find this FFB dialogue box.

Edited October 27, 2024 by VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants

[MAXsenna]

Just now, VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants said:

It may not about trimming at all, it could be that Heatblur just hardcode Y-axis moving forward in flight. Will try "swap axis" before writing to Heatblur. Because no other plane, helicopter has this problem. Now I need find this FFB dialogue box.

 

Select your Moza column.

The TRIM , not the stick, in F-4 and F-14, (don't remember about the Viggen), is hardcoded way too forward yes. No other module does this. One can observe in the Controls Indicator.

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

Found it before I read your post. But big thanks anyway. I just test it. In order not to confuse the whole world, including myself, after selecting swapping, the stick swings in the right direction now. Thanks again I can make the turn now.

I think I need to remount the base on the chopping board then.

Edited October 27, 2024 by VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

Update: the trim still messes up when I swap the axis. When F-14 and F-4 starts in-flight, the trim is forward by default. Regardless X-axis is inverted or not in the "FF Tune" option, the plane pitches up. Since this problem only affects 2 planes, I am not sure if I unswap or not.

Definitely a Heatblur's problem.

Edited October 27, 2024 by VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants

[MAXsenna]

Update: the trim still messes up when I swap the axis. When F-14 and F-4 starts in-flight, the trim is forward by default. Regardless X-axis is inverted or not in the "FF Tune" option, the plane pitches up. Since this problem only affects 2 planes, I am not sure if I unswap or not.
Definitely a Heatblur's problem.

Okay, I'm gonna say it once more. YES! In air starts, the F-4/14 is not trimmed correctly. It's a Heatblur thing. Bring up the Controls Indicator and observe. (It's probably not correctly trimmed ever, but in air starts one notices immediately!).
To see if you need to swap axis, jump in a hot started plane on ground. Trim with the hat and observe if your physical stick moves relative to the direction you trim.

EDIT: This has nothing to do with swapping axis. That's a DCS with Direct Input position communicated to the stick, which way, and how much it should be moved. Heatblur gives the trimmed value only, (which DCS sends to the stick). Which is obviously incorrect.

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