Air to Air Refueling Training Missions

[PacFlyer23]

This is the hardest thing to do in DCS. I've studied the YT videos and their suggestions - just can't do it. 

It would be great to have a sim mission with feedback on what I'm doing wrong and how to do it right.

I've been trying for the past week, at least an hour plus each day and still no joy. 

Given ED won't add an "Auto A/A Refuel" feature where the A-10 just does it, I'm not seeing any real alternative to just skipping doing this altogether... incredibly frustrated. 

Edited July 4, 2024 by PacFlyer23

[MAXsenna]

This is the hardest thing to do in DCS. I've studied the YT videos and their suggestions - just can't do it. 
It would be great to have a sim mission with feedback on what I'm doing wrong and how to do it right.
I've been trying for the past week, at least an hour plus each day and still no joy. 
Given ED won't add an "Auto A/A Refuel" feature where the A-10 just does it, I'm not seeing any real alternative to just skipping doing this altogether... incredibly frustrated. 

The A-10C might be the hardest module to do AAR in. Kudos for you to start with that one. IMHO the Su-33 is the easiest one. Maybe get the F-16C, SE or F-4E if you're into the boom.
Cheers!

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[Yurgon]

11 hours ago, PacFlyer23 said:

It would be great to have a sim mission with feedback on what I'm doing wrong and how to do it right.

That would be fairly hard to script. Heatblur approached the topic with Jester giving advice, but to me it's more annoying than helpful. "A little to the left... a little right... you almost got it! Aaaaah, the tanker just doesn't like us today. Use the force, Luke! Hahahahaha."

It's really difficult to give good advice. You probably know when you're too high or too low and don't need anyone to tell you that. You know when you're overshooting or falling back. What you don't know is how the hell all of this is supposed to work.

A more general type of feedback would be something like "You're starting high, you keep it too high, and then you always drop down in response. Fix the initial height, and you should have less of a problem. Now try again." Getting a mission to react in this fashion would be very difficult to do, and it could easily be wrong and give the wrong type of advice or react to one thing that happened but not the one thing that caused it.

You probably know all the usual advice, but here's some of it anyway:

• make sure the aircraft is trimmed as perfectly as you can get it
• fly formation with the tanker, not the boom
• try to achieve and maintain the proper sight picture with the tanker, not the boom
• if you struggle with thrust, try opening the speedbrakes a little bit before getting ready; your throttle should then feel a little more responsive
• if you struggle with pitch, try trimming nose down so that you always have to apply back pressure and never have to go through the stick center during AAR
• you can try "stirring the pot", providing some stick input all the time

That said, of all the above I only use the "fly in formation with the tanker, not the boom" and of course the proper trimming advice. I don't trim nose down, I don't open the speedbrakes and I don't stir the pot. Some players (and real pilots, as far as I know) say some of these help them, others say they don't use them. Find whatever technique suits you and helps you.

Then on a more general note: You're totally right, aerial refueling is one of the hardest things to do in a flight simulator. The funny thing is our brains are slow to catch up, and they need rest to learn from what happened. Don't be surprised if you have a particularly painful session and your feeling that it's impossible will be stronger than ever, only to realize the next day that it's suddenly doable.

And then: In real life, pilots should fly within a certain box, and as long as they stay in that box, it's actually the boom operator who does the fine control. In DCS that's not the case, so if you can do AAR in the DCS A-10C, you could probably show off how easy it is if you ever get to fly a full simulator with the USAF or ANG.

All I can really say is: stick with it and practice, practice, practice.

10 hours ago, MAXsenna said:

The A-10C might be the hardest module to do AAR in.

At least there's a sight picture for the tanker. In the F-15E and F-16 I find it pretty hard to fly off a couple of lights.

Of course sweat starts pouring down my back when I even just think of the Harrier and the fact that you can't see the darn basket when plugging in...

Edited July 4, 2024 by Yurgon
Typo

[MAXsenna]

At least there's a sight picture for the tanker. In the F-15E and F-16 I find it pretty hard to fly off a couple of lights.
Of course sweat starts pouring down my back when I even just think of the Harrier and the fact that you can't see the darn basket when plugging in...

For me the issue in the A-10C is "finding" the sight picture. Well, I guess everyone will have different experiences. The Harrier for me? Plugged on the first try without any disconnects. I admit, I did have the nozzles fairly down by accident, so it basically felt like a helicopter.

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[jaylw314]

3 hours ago, Yurgon said:

• make sure the aircraft is trimmed as perfectly as you can get it

Pay attention to this one.  The A-10C is one of the only 4th gen aircraft in the game with conventional trim.  Heck, I can't even think of another one.  That also means when you add power, it pitches up a bit, too.

It's fairly easy to set up a practice mission, but getting feedback on what you're doing wrong in a mission? I don't think I've seen anything that actually does that.  That would be the sort of thing to record a video with your controls display on screen and ask for feedback from people.

[Slippa]

You wouldn’t get any satisfaction from finally achieving it if you were to use an auto-feature so I’m happy there isn’t one. I don’t want anyone else to do it for me, I want the satisfaction of doing it myself. It isn’t easy, which is what makes it all the better once you’ve done it.

When the Phantom was released I started to use all the jets I had hangared a lot more. I still have most of the systems to learn but for some reason I decided to try my luck at tanking. I don’t always take the easy route and having read a few people say the Phantom’s one of the hardest to refuel in I was in two minds which way to go.

Flying the F-4 on a MP server one night I saw a couple of people plugging in and thought I’d have a go too. I love a bit of formation flying anyway so chose a tanker to form up on and checked I had my bindings set for refuelling. I don’t remember having ever looked through any tutorials or training before so didn’t think I’d get anywhere, I was just checking it all out a bit.

I followed a tanker and once I was tucked in pretty close I started calling to refuel. I wobbled in the air and had to take my hand off the stick to grab the mouse so I could go through the rest of the procedure. I’ll have to find somewhere to bind that or keep using the F keys as it’s definitely not ideal. I didn’t think I was close enough or something as I got no response from the tanker but I kept trying.

I ran out of fuel. I respawned and took off to find another tanker. I pulled alongside one and started scrambling about with my hands again trying to get a response. On and on I went, I was probably at it for half an hour or more before someone mentioned in the chat that I was never gonna get refuelled as I was following the wrong type of tanker . It didn’t have a boom. I’m an idiot . I had no business trying any of it without any training so I took myself off to look for a tutorial or something.

There’s obviously a fair bit on YouTube so I watched a few of those then tried again. Thankfully I tried on the MP server. Again, someone in the chat saved the day and asked if I’d done any tanking before trying in the Phantom. They laughed when I said I hadn’t and said I should try with the basket in something else. I chose the Hornet and spent the following week or so trying to tank in it (remembering to follow the right tanker o course).

Most of the time, I’d just manage to get my tip wet for a second or two before she’d cough or something and I’d slip out again. I’d call the tanker every foul name I could think of then I’d roll out and line up again for another go. I hit the tanker, I overshot the tanker and a I dived into the Ocean. I did everything but stay plugged in for any amount of time. Then I saw a lady on YouTube tanking in the Hornet too and she showed her controls on screen so you could see what her inputs were. She was darting the throttles to and fro, nothing like I’d been doing. I loosened off the tension on my throttle levers a bit and tried again. 

Here’s ‘MsPanther’s video:

Last night I filled the tank for the first time. 

I was just lining up, or trying to when Ms. Slippa popped her head in and started chatting to me about shopping. Sensibly, I started chatting with the tanker.

Out came the basket and somehow I wobbled into it then all the chatting stopped. For more than a week I’d been struggling to stay plugged in so I wasn’t expecting it to last but gradually I’d been latching on for longer. I was drifting a bit and twitching the throttles but just held on. To my surprise the ‘transfer complete’ message came and I rolled away firing off flares and trailing red smoke behind me . I flew around burning fuel then went back looking for the tanker. I got plugged in again and managed to stay on for long enough to top it up after a few attempts but now I know I can do it I’ll be back again to drum it in.

It’s not easy and I’m still all over the place trying to stay formed up and settled properly. The closer I get to the basket, the more twitchy I get. The exact opposite of what I want to be doing. I make sure I’m trimmed out properly and try to keep my eyes on the tanker. Other than that, for now, I’m doing all any of us can do, practice, practice and practice.

On a MP server I managed to tank on the right wing as well. Sweating buckets with another Hornet tanking alongside on the left was a bit dodgy but a lot of fun. While I tried to get lined up on the right another two aircraft latched on the left, refuelled and were both away before I’d even got plugged in. In the time it took me to get connected and stay there for a while you could’ve refuelled half a dozen aircraft. If and when I get comfortable with it I’ll move on and try with another aircraft. I don’t think I’ll be tanking on the boom just yet though.

Breaking it up a bit helps I think as well? So I’ll try tanking for a bit then go and fly something else or give it a break for a bit. It does take a bit of patience and as someone posted already, our brains take time to process things and it doesn’t happen necessarily when we think it might be so don’t just keep banging away at it.

You’ll get there, trim and loads of practice. For me, following the right tanker helps too .

best of luck. 

[MAXsenna]

Pay attention to this one.  The A-10C is one of the only 4th gen aircraft in the game with conventional trim.  Heck, I can't even think of another one.  That also means when you add power, it pitches up a bit, too.
It's fairly easy to set up a practice mission, but getting feedback on what you're doing wrong in a mission? I don't think I've seen anything that actually does that.  That would be the sort of thing to record a video with your controls display on screen and ask for feedback from people.

There are several tanking missions in the user files for the A-10C.

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[MAXsenna]

@Slippa Way to go buddy! My journey was somewhat different, but I eventually got there. What's equal, is that one day, I just decided to make it. Spent around 10 days doing nothing else for hours each day, (I do know others don't recommend this, while it worked for me), alternating between the Hornet and the Viper. What helped me get the there was a relaxed seat position, and having a more natural stick position. Basically not high up on a desk. If you have the opportunity to rest your arm on your thigh, and an extension! I also use VAICOM so no need for the radio menu.
So it was pretty funny for me to discover that the F-4E is one of the easier ones for me, as soon as I read the manual to find out that you need to press "the reset" switch after each disconnect, just like in the A-10C. Also Jester helped me aquire the correct sight picture. I can't see the belly lights at all. If there is one "cheat" ED could help new eager pilots with, would be an overlay of the belly lights, to help users get the sight picture sooner.
Cheers!

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[jaylw314]

2 hours ago, MAXsenna said:

There are several tanking missions in the user files for the A-10C.

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk
 

I was more so talking about the idea of missions with in-game feedback, but yes, there are otherwise good user-created missions

Ah, the talk about the tanker lights reminds me you obviously won't use them much in the A-10C.  You'll put the boom driver's window on a spot near your canopy frame, and you'll use the boom colors for distance

Edited July 4, 2024 by jaylw314

[Slippa]

5 hours ago, MAXsenna said:

@Slippa Way to go buddy!
 

What helped me get the there was a relaxed seat position, and having a more natural stick position. Basically not high up on a desk. If you have the opportunity to rest your arm on your thigh, and an extension! I also use VAICOM so no need for the radio menu.
the F-4E is one of the easier ones for me, as soon as I read the manual to find out that you need to press "the reset" switch after each disconnect, just like in the A-10C. Also Jester helped me aquire the correct sight picture. I can't see the belly lights at all. 

Cheers Max. -  Ms. Slippa was watching when I topped up so I know I didn’t imagine it. Pretty chuffed to have got somewhere at last . 

The seat is something I really could do with. I’ve got a bloody great obelisk of a gaming chair I refuse to sit in again as it was killing me even looking at it. Using a dining chair atm so not great. My stick’s on a MT desk mount, not too high but I’m still toying with swapping it up a bit. Tempted to have another go in the Phantom reading that . Maybe try with the right tanker this time and I should have a look at me bindings. I saw somewhere it’s a good idea to lower the seat in the Phantom too, proper low-rider style. Maybe I’ll get lucky?

Don’t know if you do MP PacFlyer but there may be some help there? Someone with a bit of experience could probably give you some advice if they know where you’re going wrong.

 

[MAXsenna]

Cheers Max. -  Ms. Slippa was watching when I topped up so I know I didn’t imagine it. Pretty chuffed to have got somewhere at last . 
The seat is something I really could do with. I’ve got a bloody great obelisk of a gaming chair I refuse to sit in again as it was killing me even looking at it. Using a dining chair atm so not great. My stick’s on a MT desk mount, not too high but I’m still toying with swapping it up a bit. Tempted to have another go in the Phantom reading that . Maybe try with the right tanker this time and I should have a look at me bindings. I saw somewhere it’s a good idea to lower the seat in the Phantom too, proper low-rider style. Maybe I’ll get lucky?
Don’t know if you do MP PacFlyer but there may be some help there? Someone with a bit of experience could probably give you some advice if they know where you’re going wrong.
 

Oh! It seems I didn't make myself clear. I find AAR super easy now. Especially in the F-4E. Only obstacles was to see the lights so I could find the perfect position and sight picture. But Jester was very helpful with that except, his lines gets queued up, so they are often a little too late. And, whenever I got plugged and disconnected, I didn't reset the system. As soon as I dedicated a switch for that it was, well, but child's play. But it's even easy in turns.

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[Slippa]

Yeah, I got that you found the Phantom pretty easy to refuel in. - Makes me fancy having another go at it, reading it ain’t so bad (for you at least).

I have the Phantom bindings pretty sorted and I like flying it, maybe I’ll have better luck trying a bit more? I remembered the bit about resetting if reconnecting just never got the luxury of having to try it . 

Childs play eh? Well there’s a challenge. I’ll keep that in mind if I get behind a tanker and start cussing it .

[Lace]

If you think AAR is hard, try AAR with button throttles and an XBox controller!

Most of my flying when away from home and consequently away from my sim 'pit is with an XBox controller.  However it is still possible even with this crude tool.  To echo some of the above, and add a couple of pointers - trim the aircraft to stick movement is kept to a minimum.  Turn off the HUD and focus on the tanker sight picture.  Take your time, there is no rush when you are learning.  If you start oscillating vertically or horizontally, then back out and, compose yourself, and then try again. Turn off wake turbulence and ensure the weather is good so you aren't worrying about clouds, low sun, etc.  Create a mission where the tanker just maintains a steady 200+ mile straight track so no stress about unexpected turns.  Once you can do this then crank up the difficulty a bit at a time.

I've never done it IRL, but the impression I get from those who have is in some ways DCS is harder than real life.  Even in VR your peripheral vision and sense of speed is reduced (pancake harder still).  There is no reaction force from the boom helping to stabilise you in position.  The tanker lights can be very difficult to see (and ideally should be repeated like the IFOLS IMHO).  Also, most HOTAS setups are vague around stick centre, unlike real aircraft.

The main thing is practice. Keep at it and like hovering a helicopter, eventually it will just click and you can sit there all day solid as a rock.

[MAXsenna]

If you think AAR is hard, try AAR with button throttles and an XBox controller!
Most of my flying when away from home and consequently away from my sim 'pit is with an XBox controller.  However it is still possible even with this crude tool.  To echo some of the above, and add a couple of pointers - trim the aircraft to stick movement is kept to a minimum.  Turn off the HUD and focus on the tanker sight picture.  Take your time, there is no rush when you are learning.  If you start oscillating vertically or horizontally, then back out and, compose yourself, and then try again. Turn off wake turbulence and ensure the weather is good so you aren't worrying about clouds, low sun, etc.  Create a mission where the tanker just maintains a steady 200+ mile straight track so no stress about unexpected turns.  Once you can do this then crank up the difficulty a bit at a time.
I've never done it IRL, but the impression I get from those who have is in some ways DCS is harder than real life.  Even in VR your peripheral vision and sense of speed is reduced (pancake harder still).  There is no reaction force from the boom helping to stabilise you in position.  The tanker lights can be very difficult to see (and ideally should be repeated like the IFOLS IMHO).  Also, most HOTAS setups are vague around stick centre, unlike real aircraft.
The main thing is practice. Keep at it and like hovering a helicopter, eventually it will just click and you can sit there all day solid as a rock.

I can imagine, while I'm not THAT into S&M! Overall I find AAR kinda soothing, as long as I'm relaxed while being focused.
Fair point about hovering, I'm sure that helped me a lot, because I'd already mastered that. Thanks Huey/Mi-8!
Some real life pilot commented in a other thread that deadzone were a real thing in older fighters. Tomcat I believe.
As for trimming. Do not trim the F-18 in pitch. It's aN FBW aircraft. So no need. Trim the SE to 1G like you're supposed to, and you're pretty much good to go. The Tomcat a fly besides the tanker and then trim it somewhat, but never perfect. There are videos out there of were to focus on the tanker to get you into the basket also.
And yes, most important. Practice makes perfect! Can never be repeated too many times.
Cheers!

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[jaylw314]

6 hours ago, Lace said:

I've never done it IRL, but the impression I get from those who have is in some ways DCS is harder than real life. 

IRL I've seen conversations that the perception of acceleration is a vital cue we don't get in DCS.  Your ass is essentially an instantaneous VVI, and give you the immediate feedback to nudge the stick the other way.

[PacFlyer23]

Lots of good advice, but no joy on my end. I've set my Joystick dead zone to 1 and curves to 18. Still bouncing all over the place with little stick input. There are not a lot of A-10c ii campaigns that "require" AAR, so maybe it's not worth the frustration on my part - getting tired of spending an hour or more just to crash into a KC-135 as opposed to flying a CAS mission and feeling like accomplishing something. I've been in the A-10 for about 10 months of DSC. I also have the F/A-18 but haven't done a single thing with it - bought on sale when I joined DCS last year. I'm starting to run out of A-10 missions/campaigns. Might be time to move on to another aircraft and skill challenge like carrier operations. Maybe AAR will be easier with it. 

AAR A-10 Fail 7-5-24.trk

[jaylw314]

1 hour ago, PacFlyer23 said:

Lots of good advice, but no joy on my end. I've set my Joystick dead zone to 1 and curves to 18. Still bouncing all over the place with little stick input. There are not a lot of A-10c ii campaigns that "require" AAR, so maybe it's not worth the frustration on my part - getting tired of spending an hour or more just to crash into a KC-135 as opposed to flying a CAS mission and feeling like accomplishing something. I've been in the A-10 for about 10 months of DSC. I also have the F/A-18 but haven't done a single thing with it - bought on sale when I joined DCS last year. I'm starting to run out of A-10 missions/campaigns. Might be time to move on to another aircraft and skill challenge like carrier operations. Maybe AAR will be easier with it. 

AAR A-10 Fail 7-5-24.trk 3.92 MB · 2 downloads

Hmm, a few thoughts:

Does the track replay reflect where you're actually looking?  The cockpit view shows you looking in the default direction, mostly at the instrument panel.  You should be essentially looking up, just below or above the canopy bow, since that's where the tanker's boom operator will be, and that's the part of the tanker you're flying formation with.  I'm just not sure if the replay accurately reflects where you're looking, or what headtracking device you're using (or not)

Looking at the control inputs, remember every move takes two inputs, like changing lanes on the highway.  You don't just turn left to change lanes, you turn left, then right.  Same with corrections--if you "do" something to correct, make sure you "undo" it a moment later.  If you're low, pitch up a bit, then pitch back down the same amount.  If your left, bank right for a moment, then back to the left.  If you're behind, throttle up for a couple seconds, then back by the same amount.  If you put in a correction and leave it there, hoping it's the right "place" (which is what I think I see you doing), you'll overshoot.

One other idea to consider in chasing the tanker is approaching to the spot 4-5 wingspans off its left (or right) wing instead of coming straight from behind.  It's super hard judging your closure when coming in straight, but if you shoot for the spot off to the side, it's easier to see the closure speed and deal with overshoots.  Once you've reasonably matched speed, then fall back a bit and slide behind the tanker.

[MAXsenna]

Lots of good advice, but no joy on my end. I've set my Joystick dead zone to 1 and curves to 18. Still bouncing all over the place with little stick input. There are not a lot of A-10c ii campaigns that "require" AAR, so maybe it's not worth the frustration on my part - getting tired of spending an hour or more just to crash into a KC-135 as opposed to flying a CAS mission and feeling like accomplishing something. I've been in the A-10 for about 10 months of DSC. I also have the F/A-18 but haven't done a single thing with it - bought on sale when I joined DCS last year. I'm starting to run out of A-10 missions/campaigns. Might be time to move on to another aircraft and skill challenge like carrier operations. Maybe AAR will be easier with it. 
AAR A-10 Fail 7-5-24.trk

Do you have the Super Carrier too? The Su-33 comes free with it. The F/A-18C comes with refueling missions, and it's much easier than the A-10C..
Cheers!

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[Lace]

25 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

The F/A-18C comes with refueling missions, and it's much easier than the A-10C.


 

Probe and drogue a very different game.  Two of my favourite AAR euphemisms courtesy of the RAF...

'Like taking a running f*ck at a rolling donut', and perhaps even better, 'like trying to shove wet spaghetti up a cat's arse'.

[MAXsenna]

Probe and drogue a very different game.  Two of my favourite AAR euphemisms courtesy of the RAF...
'Like taking a running f*ck at a rolling donut', and perhaps even better, 'like trying to shove wet spaghetti up a cat's arse'.

True, but you learn how to fly with the tanker, and if he's got the SC, the Su-33 is the easiest one. Lock the tanker with IRST, and you can match the speed easily. And the pod will tell to exactly what is going on with its lights. To be honest. If he wants to learn the boom, get the Viper or the SE, or my new favourite. The Phantom!
Hopping into one right now.

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[Yurgon]

7 hours ago, PacFlyer23 said:

Still bouncing all over the place with little stick input.

Thanks for the track! Yeah, the stick and throttle input is already pretty smooth, that's definitely the way to go, and there's already excellent advice from jaylw314.

What I see primarily in the track is all corrections happening at the same time. When you're low and aft, you get into an accelerating climb. Then when you overshoot both altitude and boom position, you throttle back a lot and drop back down a lot. A few seconds later, naturally you're back where you started and there's a repeat in the making.

It looks like you're trying to just once get the nose connected to the boom. When that happens - it'll be out again a second later.

Try to correct one issue at a time. You're aft, low, and left? Correct the left first and come back to the tanker's centerline and stabilize. Then correct the low, gently climb up to roughly the proper altitude behind the tanker and try to stick to that altitude. Only then throttle up a bit and get a bit of closure.

Of course you'll be correcting all 3 all the time. Formation flying isn't about getting into the right position and then finally relaxing. It's about staying in that position, and it takes a ton of concentration and a myriad of small corrections the entire time.

Speaking of which, aerial refueling is formation flying. From the looks of it, you haven't spent a lot of time practicing formation flying, right? Real pilots struggle with AAR - a lot - when they first learn it, and they tend to have dozens of hours of flying in lose and tight formations before they even get to the tanker. I'd try placing a single AI A-10 to practice against, plus your player controlled aircraft already roughly in position; put the AI to level flight, absolutely no turns or altitude changes (because the AI will perform all of those as crazy combat maneuvers), and just try to fly in lose and close formation with it. Get comfortable in fingertip formation off the left wing, then cross under to the same position off the right. Maybe losen up to wedge,  then get back in fingertip. For aerial refueling, the sight picture will be completely different, but the techniques employed to fly in formation are all the same.

Good luck, and keep us posted!

[Ready]

I remember the pain! 

It helped me as well to tell myself to relax. I tensed up my shoulders a lot and was having the wrong posture. I was also trying to glance at the fuel indicator to see how much I still had to go and ofcourse lost my position on the boom. What does not help is when you do AAR during checkrides or when your FL or Wingman is looking and waiting. Don't worry about that and just relax. We all were there. 

It really will come by time. The most important thing is to learn to fly very steady in formation with the tanker and after a while you will start noticing that your eyes/hands will take over and correct without you thinking too much about it. You can just try to fly with your cockpit between the engines for example and stay there. Or just set up another A-10 to fly straight and level and try to get as close as you can from all kinds of angles; below, besides, softly touching it with your wingtip etc. It all helped me to become more comfortable flying really close and in formation. When I am on the boom I am laser focused on the boom movements and the warning colors. You need to learn how to recognize being too slow/fast vs being too low/high, this both has impact on the colors on the boom. This comes by time. In the corner of my eyes I see the wings of the tanker above my canopy rail and I notice it when it starts making a turn, which is when can anticipate the boom to move as well.

Very important is to try and anticipate movements and not try to respond too strong, because then you overcompensate and get into a difficult position to recover from. When you are thinking about responding, then you are too late. Most of the thinking I do is telling myself to stay relaxed and check my neck, shoulders, arms etc. It is very intense to do AAR for 4 minutes straight. Just stick with it, get used to the movements of the tanker/boom and how your jet responds to your inputs. slowly you should feel progression and at a certain moment it just clicks. 

I only fly VR, don't know if you do, but it really helps with your SA and you notice all the small movements of the tanker, I think easier than when you fly 2D.

I also changed stick and throttle and especially the new throttle gives me a bit better control of thrust. 

If you are interested about what correct positions look like, check out my channel, I have a load of AAR videos on there. Some better than others, since I was also just learning. 

Stick with it! You will be rewarded in the end.

[jaylw314]

@Ready 's videos are really good.

Here's a clip of how I position the tanker.  Note how the tanker wingroots are just below the top of the canopy arch.  I moved the seat down for this, the default position is a little to high to see the top of the colored boom section (the important part).

Your goal is to keep the tanker wingroots at a constant height when you're within range of the boom.  That will put you at a reasonably constant down angle from the boom, which is what you want.

 

[Ready]

6 minutes ago, jaylw314 said:

@Ready 's videos are really good.

Here's a clip of how I position the tanker.  Note how the tanker wingroots are just below the top of the canopy arch.  I moved the seat down for this, the default position is a little to high to see the top of the colored boom section (the important part).

Your goal is to keep the tanker wingroots at a constant height when you're within range of the boom.  That will put you at a reasonably constant down angle from the boom, which is what you want.

 

Thanks! I hear you constantly playing with the power setting, which is absolutely necessary as well.

I also lower my seat a bit before hitting the tanker, to have the whole boom in view in the front window. I caught myself bending forward to look below the canopy rail and was hurting my neck. Not sure if this is the same in 2d. I usually have my seat up a bit higher just to be able to comfortably see the heading tape in the bottom of my HUD. For AAR I adjust my seating.

[Ready]

Just looked back at some of my earlier videos. Really liked this one. AAR at night without NVG's and an ILS back into Nellis. Tacview in the end of the video. Unfortunately my kneeboard was not being recorded at the time.