fixed Huge SP performance degradation with 2.9.7.58923 and 2.9.6.58056 compared to DCS 2.9.5.55918

[DragonSoulkin]

9 hours ago, Moezilla said:

According to the log-analyzer over on the ED discord, you still have the remnants of a lot of mods in your Saved Games\DCS.openbeta\ folder.

 

4 hours ago, MoleUK said:

I saw something similar to this recently. Was only getting it in track replays and SP content. Turned out after deleting the OH-6 mod, I still had mod .lua files leftover in the savedgames>DCS>Scripts>Hooks folder. Deleted the leftover mod .lua files (the loaches AI gunner hook lua can cause issues iirc) and that sort of stutter disappeared.

I will say though anecdotal, I've seen lots of user reports of increased memory usage since the Afghan patch (2.9.6.57650) I think as well. I know the patch notes did list changes to the terrain render tech, so it could be related.

Wait, so OvGME isn't disabling/removing the mods when clicking "disable"? WTF!? I'll go through my SavedGames folder and get rid of everything that isn't "stock" then and see what happens. Thanks guys for checking that.

[wheelie]

I'm seeing a similar performance degradation since the latest update.

The FPS seems OK but there is a weird jitter as if something is being loaded or some loop in the code is happening. Its very, very noticeable in helicopters, Apache, HUEY, blackhawk and HIND.

I don't know what it is and don't see the antifreeze message some are reporting in the dcs.log file.

It feels like there is something looping in the background?

I hope the track files added in this discussion help ED to identify and rectify as its not a good experience at the moment.

i9 9900k all cores at 5GHZ

64gb Ram

4090 GPU

OS on m.2

DCS on its own m.2

Page file on separate m.2

All drivers still the same my end and no OS updates added.

[MoleUK]

9 minutes ago, wheelie said:

I'm seeing a similar performance degradation since the latest update.

The FPS seems OK but there is a weird jitter as if something is being loaded or some loop in the code is happening. Its very, very noticeable in helicopters, Apache, HUEY, blackhawk and HIND.

I don't know what it is and don't see the antifreeze message some are reporting in the dcs.log file.

It feels like there is something looping in the background?

I hope the track files added in this discussion help ED to identify and rectify as its not a good experience at the moment.

i9 9900k all cores at 5GHZ

64gb Ram

4090 GPU

OS on m.2

DCS on its own m.2

Page file on separate m.2

All drivers still the same my end and no OS updates added.

If it's a very regular heartbeat like stutter that appears on the FPS graph as massive FPS drops as opposed to general FPS degradation, it's worth eliminating any mods/scripts as a possibility. Could try renaming the DCS savedgames folder temporarily to see if that fixes it.

If it's more like the terrain not moving by smoothly while everything else seems fine, that's a different problem entirely and is a bit tricky to try and address. Terrain jitter problem shown here:

 

Edited August 17, 2024 by MoleUK

[DragonSoulkin]

10 hours ago, Moezilla said:

According to the log-analyzer over on the ED discord, you still have the remnants of a lot of mods in your Saved Games\DCS.openbeta\ folder.

No change, single player still unplayable.

SP_Testing2.trk

dcs.log

Edited August 17, 2024 by DragonSoulkin
Wrong log uploaded

[DragonSoulkin]

 

Here's what the log analyzer shows now. I can remove these last remaining mods but is that really going to be necessary? Setting these up was such a pain in the ass.

dcs.log

Edited August 17, 2024 by DragonSoulkin

[Rene Coulon]

15 hours ago, buceador said:

I have seen this too @BIGNEWY  @NineLine to what does refer?

I think this might be at the core of the problem...my testing is not pointing to one specific thing, certainly not in mission design...well so far not.

The big question is...why has this popped up on some of our systems...and not on others

 

Then how do we fix it

[Rene Coulon]

nullFound on another thread...worth a try

[Rene Coulon]

These are the results of my testing. I7 8700K, 2080 ti, 64 GB RAM, M.2 500GB drive.

All Stress tests are using the Mission Editor, the tests were to look at the Ratio of Ground units to AI Aircraft that my system can now cope with.

There is a Large drop in the number of Ground units and AI Aircraft that can work without serious stuttering,

Ships and or Static objects have a negligable performance impact

AIRCRAFT           VEHICLES         PERFORMANCE ; 0 is terrible, 5 is Great

131                         210                    0

88                          210                     1

66                          210                     2

52                           420                    1      ( smaller than every mission , and completely un-flyable )

24                           420                   3

27                           357                     3/4

39                           231                      3

51                            198                      4

51                             130                     4+

The performance is obviously subjective, based on the visable stuttering and spiking.

Mission/ SERVER that prior to the update had approximately 700+ vehicles could be flown with 40 + AI aircraft Airborne.

Something serious has happened to account for this BIG DROP in Performance. the Ratio of AI units has dropped dramatically.

 

PIC 1 is Great , PIC 2 is a stuttering mess.

 

 

 

Edited August 18, 2024 by Rene Coulon
added text and uploaded pictures

[Slippa]

Rene you’ve got more patience than I have with it. Well done on your testing, hope it helps someone.

ED know what they included in the update a while back. I’m convinced it’s what caused this. As soon as it dropped all these threads started popping up where people were having trouble. I started calling it the carnage update on account of the various problems it introduced. I didn’t realise then just how bad it was. There’s been another two updates since that one and I can’t see either of them have improved performance. Though we do have a Chinook to frighten MPs away now.

Come on ED, have a look at that carnage update. Not the last two but the one before those. You don’t have to do a lot of searching, this place is splattered with horror stories and a lot of us can’t use what we’ve paid for properly. Put down the shiny new project for a minute, whatever it may be, and fix this flick show for us please.

[Moezilla]

19 hours ago, DragonSoulkin said:

 

Here's what the log analyzer shows now. I can remove these last remaining mods but is that really going to be necessary? Setting these up was such a pain in the ass.

dcs.log 319.71 kB · 2 downloads

 

That one is your decision obvs, but one more data point is that I took your SP_Testing2.trk, renamed it to .miz, and ran it on my machine which does have SRS but does not have Tacview, LotAtc, or pw-dev, and I get smooth fps when I go to F2 view and move the camera around the Hornet.

[Semaphore]

21 hours ago, DragonSoulkin said:

 

Wait, so OvGME isn't disabling/removing the mods when clicking "disable"? WTF!? I'll go through my SavedGames folder and get rid of everything that isn't "stock" then and see what happens. Thanks guys for checking that.

OvGME is designed to modify, and be able to enable disable mods in the core game folder.. not saved games folder.  

 

In other news.... my PC running an i9 14th Gen, RTX 4090, 64Gb DDR5 at 6400mts runs like a bag of spanners since the last update.  I have updated BIOS, NIVIDIA Drivers etc etc .... sadly i am not clued up enough as everyone else to understand what else i can do other than to wait for ED to fix the issue.  In the past i was getting solid 75+ FPS in VR.  Now im getting max 54FPS  but then FPS is eratic, dropping to 35 to 44 FPS in FPS counter its spiking like mad an io am CPU Bound too.   

in my logs i have this..

2024-08-18 16:19:08.033 WARNING EDCORE (Main): CPU HAS PARKED LOGICAL CORES (this can be source of stuttering and reduced performance especially on hybrid CPUs with P/E-cores)

Ive also followed this guys instrructions to unpark my CPU cores in Regedit  so why is DCS re-parking them?

dcs.log

Edited August 18, 2024 by Semaphore

[Coollimes]

Same for me. Huge stutters in f2 view while panning since 2 updates ago and constant stutters in cockpit with a very high end PC. Unplayable at present and amazed it got released through in this state to be honest, hopefully can be solved soon.

[Archangel44]

4 hours ago, Semaphore said:

<snip>

Ive also followed this guys instrructions to unpark my CPU cores in Regedit  so why is DCS re-parking them?

dcs.log 225.52 kB · 2 downloads

 

I fell your pain brutha.

I did the exact same thing, found only one core doing all the work a few months ago.
Back then I was getting crappy frame rates, unparked the cores and things got way better.

But today, I can only image how laggy it would be with only one core online.

My advice to anyone with multi core processors, check and make sure all cores are helping with the load.

This simulator has become very CPU/Memory/GPU hungry.

[ruxtmp]

It all started going badly, getting stutter and super low FPS, for me with the update that brought the Airboss station and other things. Reducing the mouse poll rate helped a little but just barely. I have a Persian Gulf SP mission with 1000 static objects, about 100 ai vehicles and about 20 ai aircraft. This is my stress test template and it ran fine at about 60fps. Two updates ago had to reduce the statics to under 100 and all AI to less than 20 units to average 50-60fps. Most recent update can only really fly instant missions. I have a pretty old rig so I was expecting things to really start getting iffy but its been holding up decently in SP so was hoping to go till XMAS before trying to build another PC. (I7 7600, 32GB RAM, and an old Nvidea Titan Xp)

Edited August 20, 2024 by ruxtmp

[shastasm]

Reverting back to 2.9.5....

Use this link if you need to do the same: 

 

 

[Rene Coulon]

7 hours ago, ruxtmp said:

It all started going getting stutter and super low FPS for me with the update that brought the Airboss station and other things. Reducing the mouse poll rate helped a little but just barely. I have a Persian Gulf SP mission with 1000 static objects, about 100 ai vehicles and about 20 ai aircraft. This is my stress test template and it ran fine at about 60fps. Two updates ago had to reduce the statics to under 100 and all AI to less than 20 units to average 50-60fps. Most recent update can only really fly instant missions. I have a pretty old rig so I was expecting things to really start getting iffy but its been holding up decently in SP so was hoping to go till XMAS before trying to build another PC. (I7 7600, 32GB RAM, and an old Nvidea Titan Xp)

This is exactly what I have found as well, after the update I have had to massively reduce the number of vehicles/ ground units for missions to run smoothly, Prior to MT the same missions ran smoothly with 1200 Units, then after MT had to slash the number to 750 or so, now its cut by HALF again !!!

Something is seriously wrong with our Sim

19 hours ago, Slippa said:

Rene you’ve got more patience than I have with it. Well done on your testing, hope it helps someone.

ED know what they included in the update a while back. I’m convinced it’s what caused this. As soon as it dropped all these threads started popping up where people were having trouble. I started calling it the carnage update on account of the various problems it introduced. I didn’t realise then just how bad it was. There’s been another two updates since that one and I can’t see either of them have improved performance. Though we do have a Chinook to frighten MPs away now.

Come on ED, have a look at that carnage update. Not the last two but the one before those. You don’t have to do a lot of searching, this place is splattered with horror stories and a lot of us can’t use what we’ve paid for properly. Put down the shiny new project for a minute, whatever it may be, and fix this flick show for us please.

Slippa I agree with you, the updates are dragging the basic performance back badly. With ST I could run the missions I make with 1200 + ground units, and 30 + AI aircraft airborne....now its down to 30 Aircraft with 320 Ground units !!!

This is Not progress...something has gone seriously wrong with the Core

[pixie]

When ED took the decision to merge stable and open beta, that was the kind of mess I was expecting. 
It's actually open beta for everyone, and all ED has to offer now is a broken sim.
It will, hopefully, get fixed in a not so distant future.
Then, there will be another update...
Rinse and repeat.

  

[wheelie]

On 8/17/2024 at 9:42 PM, MoleUK said:

If it's a very regular heartbeat like stutter that appears on the FPS graph as massive FPS drops as opposed to general FPS degradation, it's worth eliminating any mods/scripts as a possibility. Could try renaming the DCS savedgames folder temporarily to see if that fixes it.

If it's more like the terrain not moving by smoothly while everything else seems fine, that's a different problem entirely and is a bit tricky to try and address. Terrain jitter problem shown here:

 

 

Mine appears to be back to normal now.
I checked the NVidia settings and made the following changes.
I also tested it using SteamVR/OpenVR as opposed to Varjo openxr with the InstanceExtensionsWrapper.dll.
After seeing an improvement using SteamVR i set it back to using Varjo's OpenXR with OpenXR toolkit enabled.

Seems to have rectified my stutters. I'm still seeing random drops in FPS but not to the point where it slows down the terrain.
My frametime is around 10/11ms consistently.

My DCS setttings are below.
Not sure if this is an actual fix for everyone but it certainly is for me.

Hope this helps someone.

 

Edited August 19, 2024 by wheelie

[av8orDave]

3 hours ago, pixie said:

When ED took the decision to merge stable and open beta, that was the kind of mess I was expecting. 
It's actually open beta for everyone, and all ED has to offer now is a broken sim.
It will, hopefully, get fixed in a not so distant future.
Then, there will be another update...
Rinse and repeat.

  

Yeah, I totally agree with this. Additionally, in going to monthly updates, we now have to wait until ED sees fit to push out anything that could fix the problem. In my opinion, making changes that break the game in a meaningful way for a large group of users, then expecting that they wait until mid-September for a fix is unreasonable and borders on ridiculous. It is only a video game, I get it, but my guess is that across the aircraft modules, terrains, and campaigns that I own, I'm pushing $1,500 USD spent on software alone, not to mention the state of the art supercomputer I have to have to run the game, the peripherals, etc. Sorry, but it is definitely a major frustration.

[Glide]

The "solution" is Low Latency Mode On in the Nvidia control panel.  I have it on Global just to be sure.  No Turbo mode, no Lock to Half Framerate, no Prefer Frame Rate over Latency.  The Max FPS slider in Game Settings works though.  It works with eye tracking and Quadviews, but make sure Turbo mode is OFF. 

I set my settings to give me a solid 72fps, set the Crystal headset to 72hz, turned on Smart Smoothing, and watched my FPS do the straight line non-stop for the entire flight, complete with a hard landing and collapsed tail gear. The Crystal as it was meant to be in DCS.

[MoleUK]

41 minutes ago, wheelie said:

Mine appears to be back to normal now.
I checked the NVidia settings and made the following changes.
I also tested it using SteamVR/OpenVR as opposed to Varjo openxr with the InstanceExtensionsWrapper.dll.
After seeing an improvement using SteamVR i set it back to using Varjo's OpenXR with OpenXR toolkit enabled.

Seems to have rectified my stutters. I'm still seeing random drops in FPS but not to the point where it slows down the terrain.
My frametime is around 10/11ms consistently.

My DCS setttings are below.
Not sure if this is an actual fix for everyone but it certainly is for me.

Hope this helps someone.

 

 

Re: The terrain stutter specifically, a frame-rate cap (applied externally ie from NVCP) + low latency ultra and vsync fast was going to be my suggestion to try and fix it. But I see you've already done all three now lol.

That seems to work for me and some others, but not everyone reports success. I'm assuming it's something to do with the terrain render thread getting out of sync but that's just a guess.

4 minutes ago, Glide said:

The "solution" is Low Latency Mode On in the Nvidia control panel.  I have it on Global just to be sure.  No Turbo mode, no Lock to Half Framerate, no Prefer Frame Rate over Latency.  The Max FPS slider in Game Settings works though.  It works with eye tracking and Quadviews, but make sure Turbo mode is OFF. 

I set my settings to give me a solid 72fps, set the Crystal headset to 72hz, turned on Smart Smoothing, and watched my FPS do the straight line non-stop for the entire flight, complete with a hard landing and collapsed tail gear. The Crystal as it was meant to be in DCS.

Yes, despite skepticism from some users, low latency mode does seem to fundamentally alter something for the better. At least in VR. I would also always recommend having an external frame-rate cap, ideally set in nvidia control panel. Just set to your headsets refresh rate. Vsync fast may or may not help as well.

Edited August 19, 2024 by MoleUK

[Dangerzone]

While I really appreciate users sharing what’s fixing the issues for them (and I really do… please keep sharing solutions), the fact that this problem isn’t occurring with other settings in earlier versions of DCS bit is on the latest concerns me, as something has changed within DCS that is having a negative impact. If unresolved/unidentified I fear this has the potential to compound until we reach a situation where no amount of tweaking will fix the issue for us after a few more updates. Going from 1,200 units down to 300 units is also a big concern. With increasing tech we should be going the other way, and be able to handle more units, not less. 

[StreetBikeSammy]

Having similar issues ever since the Chinook update. ED really needs to figure out how to utilize and clear VRAM usage. There's no reason dcs needs 12+ GBs of vram and have to ALT tab every 10 minutes/ using f10 map and have windows clear space so it can run a different program.

Maybe put down all these <profanity> unfinished new modules in beta and work on the MT preview and some optimization for once...

 

[Rene Coulon]

16 hours ago, wheelie said:

Mine appears to be back to normal now.
I checked the NVidia settings and made the following changes.
I also tested it using SteamVR/OpenVR as opposed to Varjo openxr with the InstanceExtensionsWrapper.dll.
After seeing an improvement using SteamVR i set it back to using Varjo's OpenXR with OpenXR toolkit enabled.

Seems to have rectified my stutters. I'm still seeing random drops in FPS but not to the point where it slows down the terrain.
My frametime is around 10/11ms consistently.

My DCS setttings are below.
Not sure if this is an actual fix for everyone but it certainly is for me.

Hope this helps someone.

 

 

Great, thank you

6 hours ago, Dangerzone said:

While I really appreciate users sharing what’s fixing the issues for them (and I really do… please keep sharing solutions), the fact that this problem isn’t occurring with other settings in earlier versions of DCS bit is on the latest concerns me, as something has changed within DCS that is having a negative impact. If unresolved/unidentified I fear this has the potential to compound until we reach a situation where no amount of tweaking will fix the issue for us after a few more updates. Going from 1,200 units down to 300 units is also a big concern. With increasing tech we should be going the other way, and be able to handle more units, not less. 

I am feeling the same way, and it should not be up to us to have to keep finding solutions for a degrading Sim. Its also not just Processor or GPU, its a rather rapid drop in Sim stability/ Playability after every  " Update"

[anlq]

16 hours ago, wheelie said:

Mine appears to be back to normal now.
I checked the NVidia settings and made the following changes.
I also tested it using SteamVR/OpenVR as opposed to Varjo openxr with the InstanceExtensionsWrapper.dll.
After seeing an improvement using SteamVR i set it back to using Varjo's OpenXR with OpenXR toolkit enabled.

Seems to have rectified my stutters. I'm still seeing random drops in FPS but not to the point where it slows down the terrain.
My frametime is around 10/11ms consistently.

My DCS setttings are below.
Not sure if this is an actual fix for everyone but it certainly is for me.

Hope this helps someone.

 

 

Does not work to me. I guess I'll wait until next month. Can't spend all the time to do adjustment.

On 8/17/2024 at 3:19 AM, A Hamburgler said:

One thing I have mentioned before but I will again. I seem to notice that everyone who describes the same issue all has this in their logs. 

WARNING WORLD (Main): ModelTimeQuantizer: ANTIFREEZE ENABLED

It is then repeated until ending the game. 

I have this repetitive Warning too.

2024-08-20 07:52:33.437 WARNING WORLD (Main): ModelTimeQuantizer: ANTIFREEZE ENABLED
2024-08-20 07:52:33.855 WARNING WORLD (Main): ModelTimeQuantizer: ANTIFREEZE ENABLED

2024-08-20 07:52:36.162 WARNING WORLD (Main): ModelTimeQuantizer: ANTIFREEZE ENABLED
2024-08-20 07:52:37.820 WARNING WORLD (Main): ModelTimeQuantizer: ANTIFREEZE ENABLED

2024-08-20 07:52:39.785 WARNING WORLD (Main): ModelTimeQuantizer: ANTIFREEZE ENABLED

2024-08-20 07:55:33.097 WARNING WORLD (Main): ModelTimeQuantizer: ANTIFREEZE ENABLED