General FFB Base talks (Was: What are FFB sticks available? (Was FFB or MFSSB?))

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

I am aware they are very different and they are of quite different applications. I mostly fly jets and some time helos.

BTW, FFB here means those "high end" FFB sticks like Moza or more expensive stuff.

So if you have a budget which afford either one, what will you choose?

Edited February 27 by VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants

[Aapje]

FFB for sure. It's a game changer, while MFSSB is more of a personal preference thing, or something to get when you want to try to mimic an F-16.

But the pilots didn't really seem to like the F-16 stick, and deflection was added for the production model, and increased for the F-22. And the F-35 has a FFB-style joystick where the desired deflection can be programmed in.

So it seems to me that if you get the MFSSB, you are getting a dead-end design that was considered so good (/sarc) that it was only used for 1 plane. Of course, if people prefer it, then all power to them, but it doesn't excite me. All the extra possibilities of FFB do excite me.

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

Title changed. 
 

Apart from Rhino, MS, Logi and Moza, what other options out there now or on the horizon?

[Aapje]

Winwing will come out with a base and Virpil as well.

And the FFBeast is a current option with more power than the Rhino.

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

FFBeast is even more expensive than Rhino!

 

Edited September 6, 2024 by VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants

[hsth]

I went for the Rhino. All I can say that it was worth the wait, Reservation made January 17 2024, delivered August 12.

As you'll find as a common comment that software is key to get any FFB joystick working. And the Rhino does it in every aspect. And for multiple sims. Like a comment in a YouTube review, this base would be even the best if it was without force feedback.

[propeler]

36 minutes ago, VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants said:

FFBeast is even more expensive than Rhino!

 

You can DIY it for cheap. There is even "Poor man's Whole 3d Printed"

  

 

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

Moza may be the worst of the up-and-comers here, they are still working on the software part. But the price is really tempting. Not sure about WinWing but I am seriously in doubt if it works with the TM stuff I am having.

Then my questions would be, is stronger force better?

 

1 minute ago, propeler said:

You can DIY it for cheap. There is even "Poor man's Whole 3d Printed"

  

 

Nice! But I am even more stupid when it comes to DIY...

[propeler]

22 minutes ago, VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants said:

stronger force better?

It is nor about better. It is about what you need. Stronger force just allows to get closer to realistic forces. But it is always a tradoff. It will be heavier. Need to be mounted on the floor or strong rig and so on. 

[shwed]

All FFBeast devices

null

[Lt_Jaeger]

Strength is not everything. I own the rhino and what puts it apart is the software. 

With software I especially point to the TelemFFB. This piece of software brings the rhino really alive and enables a ton of customization. The basic effects provided by the game (or not in case of MSFS) are more or less fine, but telemFFB really shines in customizing and adding effects. 

 

The strength of the rhino is already strong enough to make my vkb crackle and scream for help, I believe with the beast I would kill the grip. Besides I would not be able to mount that thing, while I use the rhino on a monstertech mount to get it out of the way of not needed. 

 

[erniedaoage]

Usually stronger force is better because you get a wider range of feedback. At least from my experience with ffb wheels and racing sims. Because i only own a msffb2 and don't have anything to compare it to. But i had already 3 different ffb wheels and i always went up in pure ffb force. For example with a cheap wheel i got a "feelable" range of forces from 0-100 and with my latest wheel it seems i have a "feelable" range from 0-500. For example if i hit a curb with the wheel i would be on 100 on my old wheel and on 500 on my new wheel. But the feelable range in between got much broader. I don't know if it makes sense to you in any form. But a little example would be the F5, if you can get a msffb2 stick to test it out. There is a feelable bump on the rolling axis when you move the stick you hit a detent and you need more force to completely deflect the stick. The force in the msffb2 is noticeable, but it would be more noticeable if you would have more force left on the motors. 

[Greekbull]

I just received my Rhino a couple of weeks ago and I can't say enough good things about it!  Makes every module in the sim feel so alive and unique!  So much of a game changer that I'm making plans to convert my Thrustmaster TPR pedals to FFB later this year.  Exciting that Moza, WinWing and others are coming into the game as that only means we will see more products and more FFB support!

As to the amount of force the VPForce Rhino has more than enough force in it.  I know there are others that are stronger but with the Rhino at full force it can absolutely wear you out.  Also, as stated above the TelemFFB and it's customizations are where the magic happens!  So much extra you gain from good Software!

Edited September 6, 2024 by Greekbull

[Aapje]

My opinion is that the Rhino is currently the best overall package (taking into account the hardware, software, documentation, support for grips and the community). But there are definite downsides like the price, the manufacturer being just one guy, the materials used and general support by third parties. And the waiting list of course. None of these are necessarily dealbreakers, but it is definitely possible for it to be overtaken by others.

If you get the Moza right now, you are essentially gambling that they will put in the effort to make the software good enough. I would personally just wait for them to do this, before committing to a purchase.

And if you wait a bit, you may get more information about competitor products, like the Winwing FFB base. But not everyone is patient, of course.

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

I have MSFFB2 and I can say it is amazing except the stick is too thin and the force is not strong enough. I may be going with Rhino unless something better comes out in the next 12 months or so.

[ebabil]

I have msffb2 but if only ı could change the grip 

[MAXsenna]

I have msffb2 but if only ı could change the grip 

You can easily! Just screw the old grip off. Order a TM to MSFFB adapter from @debolestis, a female 5 pin DIN socket plug, 5 pin cable. Solder it to the socket, and a male 5 pin DIN cable plug on the other end. Stick it into your TM or Virpil base, and you're good to go.
Cheers!

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[Greekbull]

2 hours ago, Aapje said:

My opinion is that the Rhino is currently the best overall package (taking into account the hardware, software, documentation, support for grips and the community). But there are definite downsides like the price, the manufacturer being just one guy, the materials used and general support by third parties. And the waiting list of course. None of these are necessarily dealbreakers, but it is definitely possible for it to be overtaken by others.

If you get the Moza right now, you are essentially gambling that they will put in the effort to make the software good enough. I would personally just wait for them to do this, before committing to a purchase.

And if you wait a bit, you may get more information about competitor products, like the Winwing FFB base. But not everyone is patient, of course.

Yeah I do think Moza will get it right.  Sounds like they've already done a lot with new profiles for the major DCS modules and tweaking that's been added.  I went back and forth on going with the Rhino a the higher pricepoint etc.  I am happy with my decision though.  There is no doubt the Rhino is a top tier product from a build quality and materials perspective and the TelemFFB software was the biggest selling point.  I do hope that guys like Moza and WinWing bring FFB into the mainstream finally with products that are much more afforadable!  I think they will.  

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

1 hour ago, ebabil said:

I have msffb2 but if only ı could change the grip 

Also, has F-14 fixed on FFB...(correct me if I were wrong!)

[ebabil]

1 hour ago, MAXsenna said:

You can easily! Just screw the old grip off. Order a TM to MSFFB adapter from @debolestis, a female 5 pin DIN socket plug, 5 pin cable. Solder it to the socket, and a male 5 pin DIN cable plug on the other end. Stick it into your TM or Virpil base, and you're good to go.
Cheers!

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk
 

Is there a pictorial guide or something like that?

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

1 hour ago, MAXsenna said:

You can easily! Just screw the old grip off. Order a TM to MSFFB adapter from @debolestis, a female 5 pin DIN socket plug, 5 pin cable. Solder it to the socket, and a male 5 pin DIN cable plug on the other end. Stick it into your TM or Virpil base, and you're good to go.
Cheers!

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk
 

Message sent.

[MAXsenna]

Is there a pictorial guide or something like that?

Well, in my head. I do think there are some old guides on the net. It's really easy if you know how to solder. But I'll be happy to help!

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[Aapje]

The yoke announcement from Virpil suggests that their FFB base is a pretty long way off:

 

Edited September 6, 2024 by Aapje

[MAXsenna]

The yoke announcement from Virpil suggests that their FFB base is a pretty long way off:
 

Yeah, probably more lucrative in that other type of SIM market.

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

I check on TaoBo (China marketplace some what like Amazon) and there are a couple other options, including Moza, also a Chinese company, is available. Apart from the need of knowing to read Chinese, one has to be aware of the shipping, support and electrical plug standard...