Intel 15th gen won’t have hyperthreading. What’s this mean for DCS?

[AceMcPlane]

I heard that they’re dropping hyperthreading and replacing it with multithreading with their next lineup of processors (arrow lake). How is this going to affect DCS?

[Mr_sukebe]

I don’t know the implications of hyperthreading being dropped on DCS.

Having said that, early benchmarks with Arrow Lake is showing it as being slighly slower in games when compared to the Intel 14!series CPUs.

Clearly these are early tests, which might not be representative, but it would appear that the Intel option is not going to be the best choice for games.

[Hiob]

1 hour ago, AceMcPlane said:

I heard that they’re dropping hyperthreading and replacing it with multithreading with their next lineup of processors (arrow lake). How is this going to affect DCS?

Hyperthreading and Multithreading are different things. You can’t drop one in exchange for another. Multithreading is the workload of an application split into different distinct tasks (threads) that can be executed in parallel. Hyperthreading means that the CPU can execute two threads (simultaneously) on one core by splitting it into one physical and one logical. For the scheduler it looks like two cores.

In other words -multithreading requires changes on an application level, hyperthreading is enabled by the hardware and microcode and managed by the scheduler.

In short, it won’t affect DCS at all. The application doesn’t care if its different threads (multithreading) are executed on physical cores (no HT) or physical and logical cores (HT).

If anything a cpu with physical cores is more performant than a cpu that achieves the same amount of „cores“ by means of doubling them with HT

Edited October 19, 2024 by Hiob

[Dangerzone]

12 hours ago, AceMcPlane said:

I heard that they’re dropping hyperthreading and replacing it with multithreading with their next lineup of processors (arrow lake). How is this going to affect DCS?

I thought EDs recommendation was for disabling hyperthreading anyway. Is this no longer the case?

[AceMcPlane]

37 minutes ago, Dangerzone said:

I thought EDs recommendation was for disabling hyperthreading anyway. Is this no longer the case?

I don’t think so anymore since update 2.9 I think. They used to say that a long time ago when we’re playing the single threaded version. The main thing that seems to solve problems in VR for me right now is making sure my display is set to the same resolution as the system resolution in game. Now everything is normal again, but it took me 3 weeks to figure that out after buying a Quest 3. The FPS would randomly bork so bad you had to reset. At least in fullscreen if the FPS borks you can just alt tab to fix it. Seems to happen a lot less too. I think that might have been causing my stutter but in the HP reverb G2 as well. Hyper threading seems to be working fine. I need it either way so I have enough CPU to record my sessions with OBS at quality settings. Turning it off would probably mean I’d have to lower those settings quite a bit. 

[Hiob]

2 hours ago, Dangerzone said:

I thought EDs recommendation was for disabling hyperthreading anyway. Is this no longer the case?

I think that‘s merely one tool in the arsenal of thing to try if you experience problems like stuttering. It probably depends on the make and model of your specific CPU and other system parameters if it is helpful or not.

There where times when I had SMT (the AMD term for HT) disabled and had noticeable improvement on my 12 core Ryzen 5900. It wasn’t a problem, because I didn‘t use it for other heavy tasks except DCS. Currently I have it enabled (I think) but still don’t have problems.

[LOW_Hitman]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb Hiob:

I think that‘s merely one tool in the arsenal of thing to try if you experience problems like stuttering. It probably depends on the make and model of your specific CPU and other system parameters if it is helpful or not.

There where times when I had SMT (the AMD term for HT) disabled and had noticeable improvement on my 12 core Ryzen 5900. It wasn’t a problem, because I didn‘t use it for other heavy tasks except DCS. Currently I have it enabled (I think) but still don’t have problems.

me too - hyperthreading enabled on my i9 9900k , no difference between on and off.

Edited October 20, 2024 by LOW_Hitman

[DCoffey]

11 hours ago, AceMcPlane said:

I don’t think so anymore since update 2.9 I think. They used to say that a long time ago when we’re playing the single threaded version. The main thing that seems to solve problems in VR for me right now is making sure my display is set to the same resolution as the system resolution in game. Now everything is normal again, but it took me 3 weeks to figure that out after buying a Quest 3. The FPS would randomly bork so bad you had to reset. At least in fullscreen if the FPS borks you can just alt tab to fix it. Seems to happen a lot less too. I think that might have been causing my stutter but in the HP reverb G2 as well. Hyper threading seems to be working fine. I need it either way so I have enough CPU to record my sessions with OBS at quality settings. Turning it off would probably mean I’d have to lower those settings quite a bit. 

Try VDS, it was a game changer for me and my Quest 3

[scommander2]

Since Arrow Lake is no longer supplied hyperthreading so the heavy lift CPUs are equals to the actual count of P-cores. 

However, some people do disable the hyperthreading feature from BIOS due to the FPS issue since the MT release, therefore, I think that it does not make lots of differences while running with the Arrow Lake.

Is the Arrow Lake a gaming CPU?  People are still taking about... 

 

[AceMcPlane]

15 hours ago, DCoffey said:

Try VDS, it was a game changer for me and my Quest 3

Virtual Desktop? Don’t need to. I solved my problem with stutter over link. Also, my VPN’s threat protection flagged their website as spyware so too sketched out to try it.

Edited October 21, 2024 by AceMcPlane

[LOW_Hitman]

Has anyone tested HAGS after the latest DCS Patch? If so can you tell us if it still hurting performance or not?

[Hiob]

2 minutes ago, LOW_Hitman said:

Has anyone tested HAGS after the latest DCS Patch? If so can you tell us if it still hurting performance or not?

Nope sorry, turned it off and never looked back. 

[Mr_sukebe]

12 hours ago, scommander2 said:

Is the Arrow Lake a gaming CPU?  People are still taking about... 

 

 

Well apparently so:

To quote Luc:

"Strongest CPU Cores in production.
There's little doubt that 15th gen Intel's P-Cores will be the fastest at their release date - first benchmark leaks suggest that, even without Hyper-Threading, the Core Ultra 9 P-Cores are as fast as, if not faster than, the Raptor Lake i9 14900K P-Cores with Hyper-Threading (8c/16t). "

 

So the upcoming full release benchmarks should knock our socks off.

 

[scommander2]

1 hour ago, Mr_sukebe said:

"Strongest CPU Cores in production.
There's little doubt that 15th gen Intel's P-Cores will be the fastest at their release date - first benchmark leaks suggest that, even without Hyper-Threading, the Core Ultra 9 P-Cores are as fast as, if not faster than, the Raptor Lake i9 14900K P-Cores with Hyper-Threading (8c/16t). "

Thanks, it is a good quote, and people are mentioning about

 

[XBlackstoneX]

We shall see. 9800X3D has entered the ring as well.

[twistking]

On 10/21/2024 at 4:35 PM, scommander2 said:

Thanks, it is a good quote, and people are mentioning about

 

It did not age well though. Newest reporting has 15th gen at roughly same performance levels as 14th gen, albeit with much lower TDP.

[scommander2]

10 minutes ago, twistking said:

Newest reporting has 15th gen at roughly same performance levels as 14th gen, albeit with much lower TDP

That's right, people maybe hold on the upgrade if they have 13th/14th gen due to performance beside lower TDP (if it is not a big concern) according to few reviews. For people owning 12th gen, it is an option to consider 15th gen according to the reviews also.

 

[Hiob]

If highest performance in DCS is the main goal, I would stay with the X3D series of AMD if possible.

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

On 10/21/2024 at 2:54 PM, LOW_Hitman said:

Has anyone tested HAGS after the latest DCS Patch? If so can you tell us if it still hurting performance or not?

I left it on after switching back to team green and haven't seen any reason yet to turn it off.

 

27 minutes ago, Hiob said:

If highest performance in DCS is the main goal, I would stay with the X3D series of AMD if possible.

Indeed. We've had comments in the past by people who know what they are talking about, that 3D V-cache works really well with EDGE (we lack official benchmarks but I imagine it's much like Assetto Corsa Competizione in that regard).

[draconus]

3 hours ago, Hiob said:

If highest performance in DCS is the main goal, I would stay with the X3D series of AMD if possible.

So they say for general gaming but for DCS there are no benchmarks and it highly depends on the mission and settings. CPUs can be overloaded in DCS with gfx (like draw calls), AI stuff (combat decisions, los and sensors calcs, pathfinding...), wake turbulence calcs and more, so we can't even make one good test track.

[FR4GGL3]

The more interesting thing on Arrow Lake will be that the E Cores will be much stronger. And rumours say that Arrow Lake could have some Issues with "older" Win 11 Installations as the Scheduler, Powerplan and so on isn't that good in handling the Workload on this new CPUs. Same Rumours say, that there is a new not so official Build of Win11 that should do a better job, but we will find out on tomorrows Release Tests how well it will work.

Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if Arrow Lake turns out to be better than expected. But probably not for people that want to put things together and just turn it on. We will see. As I said there are only rumours.

Edited October 23, 2024 by FR4GGL3

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

58 minutes ago, FR4GGL3 said:

Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if Arrow Lake turns out to be better than expected.

That would be best, for both consumers and Intel itself alike: Intel lost a lot of goodwill in the last few years going from complacency (11th-12th gen) to having serious issues (13th-14th gen).

[Hiob]

7 minutes ago, Raven (Elysian Angel) said:

That would be best, for both consumers and Intel itself alike: Intel lost a lot of goodwill in the last few years going from complacency (11th-12th gen) to having serious issues (13th-14th gen).

This.
Apart from performance considerations, I simply lost my trust in Intel.

[FR4GGL3]

Even if I get proofed wrong and Intel did a lousy job: you should never ever "trust" any Hardware Manufacturer. They all just want your money and are not your friend. AMD has some sympathy points as they are regarded as the underdog. But they won't hesitate a second to pull an Intel or Nvidia move if they are in the position to do so.

We are customers. We need competition in order to keep sane prices. And we should always look after things like BIOS Settings. These days more than ever. The Processors are fast, they get hot and they are all pushed to their limits.

I've lately came across some entries in the Steam forums where an AMD CPU User described a Shader Cache Build up Error in UE5 Games. These things happen. Even if they are more common on Raptor Lake CPUs it is not an exclusive thing.

Edited October 24, 2024 by FR4GGL3
typo

[scommander2]

A real user tested with 285K (not DCS) in general from YouTube:

With the recent DCS release, I think that the 285K P-cores should work the same way as 14900K P-cores with the better TDP.

Edited October 24, 2024 by scommander2