not planned F-18B - make more $ E.D, plus I can teach easier.

[Norcat]

Edit

ED - I don’t know game development but hope this is a good idea so I’m spitballin.’
 

Original

“Babe they gave me the Hornet for the weekend and I get to take up my buddy, I’m taking him to the range for a weapons shot too!!!!”

 

Sadly we don’t get to say this virtually yet but I see it coming cuz it’s a pretty good idea…… 

2 parts to this  / 1 we need a method to teach current vFighter Pilots in the same plane / 2 and a way to get new vPilots interested in Mil flying.

1  vFighter Pilots 

This sim is awesome and current Trg Missions work for system review but so many times vPilots are stuck not knowing basics, for example: pitch is airspeed - power is altitude // how do I fly a circuit? // what’s a smooth lead look like?// how do two planes fly together as a form? // BFM - bandit crossed my 6 close, fast, large HCA - ahhhh scissors? // Turn circle entry… wait do I turn now??   

Totally cool as that’s not taught in game nor can you be expected to squeeze it in. It remains a huge gap however that leaves players shy to ask when they don’t know how to fly or floundering in Single Player as they are afraid to come mess up in multi. I see it all the time, guys stuck in a corner bashful to ask a bad question. All of this solved with platform for Dual Instruction. 

There are a tons of RL flyers in game and many more that are not RL but absolutely excellent vFlyers and good instructors. Operating  in a 2 ship of ‘single seat aircraft’ while trying to teach basics is difficult. I know we can stream Discord to see their cockpit and help with ‘words’ but nothing beats “I have control” and placing the aircraft in a certain piece of sky or manipulating their screens in real time in their cockpit to better show a sight picture. 

Circuits/ TAC Form/ Basic Surface Attack/ RADAR VID / Skate / Banzai etc.

All of those lessons would be amazing to share in the same aircraft.

As the Hornet is a DCS staple that almost all players have it’s a great one to make dual.

 

 2  New vPilots (bringing in new DCS $$$)

A bonus idea - make the B model free for players that don’t have it or DCS. Give them ‘back seat’ rides only so we can share what we are doing in here and get more eyeballs on the fun side of Military flying.  It will help get more people into DCS (show em they can do it), grow the biz side and make more money for ya after they get a taste and dive in. 

Current aircraft, the TF-51 and SU-25T are not representative of what u guys offer or how much DCS has matured. Time to step it up.

Create a Free B model Hornet ‘back seat,’ with ur current free maps.

BOOM, all ur dreams will come true!  ~Vote for Pedro

You can’t miss!!  Duals would be a really smart move. 

You can also charge 10$ for a new dual too - but polish up the textures to the new standards.

 

 Last thing :

Do the same for the 16 after u get the F-18B out the door. Every one will grab that aircraft too.

Anyway I’ll keep my hopes up while you think about it.

P.s thank you again for letting me fly out my dream of being a fighter pilot!!!!!!! 

 

 

[Muchocracker]

Closest we'll ever get is the IDF mod f-18D. 

ED will never do it cause it's not just a plug in new external model, cockpit, and multicrew code and it's off the races. The flight model would require extensive modifications due to the changes in departure characteristics caused by the larger canopy. There's a UT knoxville masters thesis on it out there if you wanna read it.

[Lace]

Is it possible to MP spectate from the F1 cockpit view? That could be a limited workaround for training demos.

That or teach the basics principles with one of the excellent 2-seat trainers (or even Mirage F1 or F-15E) we already have?  

[Norcat]

1 hour ago, Muchocracker said:

UT knoxville masters thesis

Hey Mucho - 

Didn’t know the flight characteristics were that much different. Please shoot over the paper if u can share it.

I know it would be work to create for sure / not dismissing that. ED needs a good two seat aircraft though to ‘hook’ (in the good way) people in to the sim. 

A frontline combat 2 seater. I prefer the Hornet, carrier based, play in the water, tons ‘o’ flap to show some aerodynamics off….. even though FBW, carries enough stuff to strike basically everything and can do BVR nicely.

I still think it would be worth  the effort. 

[Norcat]

1 hour ago, Lace said:

2-seat trainers (or even Mirage F1 or F-15E)

Hey Lace,

2 seat tactical jets are great. Best to show the new flyers a full up combat capable aircraft most fitting to what DCS is.

The C101/MB339 can’t replicate front line and get regular folk excited.

The F-1 is a low draw and low tech. Not many people fly it. I do like it. I’m old school. 

The S.E is amazing and would work great (legal stiff aside…) though ED would not want the ‘free candy back seat’ offered buy a third party. 
 

Option 1 Hornet B Model

Option 2 … seriously ED please make a B Hornet.

Option 3 F-16B 

Will grow the DCS fly base nicely.

 

p.s the F1 screen is good but won’t add in new players. Same as discord stream really. 

Edited October 21, 2024 by Norcat

[Lace]

1 minute ago, Norcat said:

Hey Lace,

2 seat trainers of other combat aircraft are great. The F1 is a low draw and low tech. Not many people fly it. I do like it. I’m old school. 

The S.E is amazing and would work great (legal stiff aside…) though ED would not want the ‘free candy back seat’ offered buy a third party. 
 

Option 1 Hornet B Model

Option 2 … seriously ED please make a B Hornet.

Option 3 F-16B 

Will grow the DCS fly base nicely.

Don't get me wrong I'd love to see more variants of the aircraft we have, but we all know the likelihood of ED making a business decision based on developing them.  If it genuinely was quick, cheap and easy, we'd have them by now.

I think the F/A-18D and F-16D would be closer to the C models we already have though in terms of avionics suite.  The Bs were based on the earlier, and much more basic A models.

[Norcat]

12 minutes ago, Lace said:

If it genuinely was quick, cheap and easy, we'd have them by now

I’m not a software guy - how did the SUFA guys make the 16 D? What do they have that ED does not? Money, more time..? I know it’s passion project likely, wonder why ED wouldn’t grab their stuff … dev work done … just gotta buy it.

Costs?? Because it’s a Mod, they want stay away from that? Does it open a can of worms for em to take in other projects? 

Genuinely curious - wanting stay on B topic but it seem ED leaves some $$ the table at times for all manner of things.

I guess ED is probably stretched thin rn with all the items in the pipeline 

ED - I don’t know game development ‘in’s n outs’ just expressing ideas to grow your fan base   Hope this is a good idea 

 

Edited October 21, 2024 by Norcat

[Muchocracker]

52 minutes ago, Norcat said:

Hey Mucho - 

Didn’t know the flight characteristics were that much different. Please shoot over the paper if u can share it.

I know it would be work to create for sure / not dismissing that. ED needs a good two seat aircraft though to ‘hook’ (in the good way) people in to the sim. 

A frontline combat 2 seater. I prefer the Hornet, carrier based, play in the water, tons ‘o’ flap to show some aerodynamics off….. even though FBW, carries enough stuff to strike basically everything and can do BVR nicely.

I still think it would be worth  the effort. 

F/A-18 External Configuration Effects on High Angle of Attack Departure Resistance is the name of the paper

 

[Norcat]

20 minutes ago, Muchocracker said:

F/A-18 External Configuration Effects on High Angle of Attack Departure Resistance is the name of the paper

Interesting read - Lower AOA departure compared to A,C with a possible nose slice when near the edge of the B envelope. I’m sure it would be a bear to get perfect but not that hard to get pretty good.  The loss of realism with departures not occurring at lower AOA in the B or not perfectly replicating wouldn’t be a huge concern.

I’m sure they count tweak the Flight Model to make this difference noticeable.

After all the desire for “I have control” instruction benefits would out way any aerodynamic inaccuracies. 

Keeping stuff simple so that can offer a B back seat or a B+ if you will. An F-18B with the C stuff replicated. No Pod control, or extra stuff. Just the basics to take a pax in a mission and let em fly around. Not a RL aircraft made but it does fit DCS needs. A small step into a minor ‘gamed’ backseat so that we can teach new guys get some MSFS users hooked into DCS.    

[Norcat]

Disregard my OG post- it’s not planned by ED as noted in the pinned comment. 

I think its a miss to not have a Combat 2 seater to train in and offer the back seat free to new users. Leaving lots ‘new to DCS’ buyers on the side line I think.  

So, I’ll let that idea stew then 

Keep crushing your other stuff ED!!!!!  

 

[BIGNEWY]

5 minutes ago, Norcat said:

Disregard my OG post- it’s not planned by ED as noted in the pinned comment. 

I think its a miss to not have a Combat 2 seater to train in and offer the back seat free to new users. Leaving lots ‘new to DCS’ buyers on the side line I think.  

So, I’ll let that idea stew then 

Keep crushing your other stuff ED!!!!!  

 

Sorry was about to reply and got distracted by other work. 

Dual seat aircraft are often requested so you are not alone with wanting one, but at the moment we have no plans for this. 

thank you 

[Norcat]

2 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

Sorry was about to reply and got distracted by other work. 

Dual seat aircraft are often requested so you are not alone with wanting one, but at the moment we have no plans for this. 

thank you 

No worries!!! Thank you for the message Bignewy.

Discord Screen Share work around for now then.

Looking forward to all your other stuff coming up. 

[=475FG= Dawger]

Nearly 30 years ago, an online multiplayer flying game had commands one could type in the chat buffer.

One of them was .shanghai <player>
 

It stuck the chosen player into your cockpit and slaved your view to his. 
 

It was a great teaching tool, to be able to be in the student cockpit, seeing what he sees. 
 

Far better than a second cockpit. And a lot less development time. 

[Norcat]

1 hour ago, =475FG= Dawger said:

Far better than a second cockpit. And a lot less development time. 

Second cockpit is more immersive but shared works too. As long as you can stay instructor pilot and say “I have the aircraft,” “you have the aircraft.” Both guy can fly.
 

Sorta like Heatblur’s F4 / both sticks are live but ur both in the same seat. 
 

That would be a really cool feature for instruction. Shared cockpit in a single seater.  That’s a pretty sweet idea.  Therefore instruct in any aircraft and take any pilot up for a ride. 
 

Love that idea Dawger

Edited October 22, 2024 by Norcat

[Norcat]

On 10/21/2024 at 9:03 AM, BIGNEWY said:

Dual seat

Dawger had a great idea to make this kinda work without needing Dual seaters  / please take a look at the last two posts.  Just ideas - perhaps easier to implement across all aircraft.
 

Long range idea only - kinda cool though 

 

I’ll leave it there   Thanks Bignewy 

Edited October 22, 2024 by Norcat

[=475FG= Dawger]

Without the active controls for the "demon" pilot, its basically just another external view like F2.

[Norcat]

43 minutes ago, =475FG= Dawger said:

basically just another external view

Yes - that why code it to allow control from instructor.  Else Discord can simply show a cockpit. 
 

When I taught flying being in the airplane was a huge bonus   jk 

In the end I don’t think this will end up anywhere - great idea to share/control the cockpit with an instructor though. 

Till then I’ll use current 2 seat front line AC for stuff.   

[lee1hy]

no old hornet, we need new hornet version or 2 seater 

[SkateZilla]

There's a delta being worked on by IDF Modding team,
It will use the charlie binaries and operate the same way their sufa does.

w/ me helping/working w/ CJS, I may offer to help IDF w/ the Delta as well.

[Northstar98]

On 11/2/2024 at 9:28 PM, lee1hy said:

no old hornet, we need new hornet version or 2 seater 

We already have enough problems delivering the current C. Even some of its older weapons aren't fully implemented, despite being marked as completed (and the missing functionality was once planned).

Then there's stores that are missing, such as the AN/AAS-38B Nite Hawk - easily the most applicable targeting pod for the era our Hornet is supposed to represent (which was the mid 2000s, now its early 2000s), but isn't planned. We don't even have a consistent AIM-120C version, though it certainly isn't a C-5 (which is old enough for our Hornet).

I don't see how a newer aircraft would be feasible, as it will no doubt result in even more of its functionality being missed. Maybe a block I or very early F/A-18E/F Block II, but it would have much capability over our current aircraft.

[SkateZilla]

Umm, the ATFLIR is Newer than the Nitehawk... so we actually went from early 2000's to later 2000's

[Northstar98]

On 11/4/2024 at 8:30 PM, SkateZilla said:

Umm, the ATFLIR is Newer than the Nitehawk... so we actually went from early 2000's to later 2000's

Tell that to ED...

Don't believe me? See this and then see this. It was mid 2000s and then it was changed to early. They initially went for a stop gap pod based on symbology from a different operator, then went for an anachronistic pod with functions missing and others not implemented properly and then the pod most appropriate to what they've said they're modelling gets snubbed.

Edited November 5, 2024 by Northstar98
spelling anachronistic properly

[SkateZilla]

Mid-2000s (2003–2006),

So a few months due to fleet deployment delays and SCS Updates.
Early 2000s is literally 2000/2001

[Northstar98]

4 hours ago, SkateZilla said:

Mid-2000s (2003–2006),

Yes, last I checked 2005 was within that range and 2002 was not.

Ergo, mid to early.

4 hours ago, SkateZilla said:

Early 2000s is literally 2000/2001

Then where does 2002 go?  Most people go with 3-4-3 year division for early/mid/late. Not 2, miss 1, 4, ?...

Not that it matters - they still went from mid 2000s to earlier (early 2000s).

[SkateZilla]

As I said though, the features being added, replacing those in early newsletters, are taking the Hornet to more Mid/Late 2000's.