Vista Performance Question

[btaft]

Hello,

 

I have Core 2 Duo 6850 (2.66 GHz) system with 2 GB of Ram and a 8800 GT - 512 MB video card currently running XP. Could someone please give me some idea as to what sort of improvement (in Blackshark) I could expect by switching to vista and using the affinity tool. I run the sim at 1680x1050 at med-high details with decent smoothness though I do get some stuttering during rapid heading changes. Any insight is appreciated.

 

Thanks,

 

Brett

[EtherealN]

Pretty good question. I'd say you should be looking at somewhere around a 30-50% FPS increase. If you are lucky you can get even more, but there might be other bottlenecks in the system.

 

However, personally, I would advice to hold off on upgrading the OS. W7 is coming soon enough and I don't really see a point in getting Vista mere months before it's replacement is being released. (Unless your XP system is being real troublesome for DCS.)

 

The stuttering on heading change - do you have maximum view distance on? Could try lowering that and see if that relieves you of the problem.

[Kurtz]

Hello,

 

I have Core 2 Duo 6850 (2.66 GHz) system with 2 GB of Ram and a 8800 GT - 512 MB video card currently running XP. Thanks,

Brett

 

I have a similar spec Core2duo 8200(2.6) with 2gb of ram and 8800gt under Vista. To be honest if your happy with XP, I would look into overclocking your CPU to equal or just exceed 3ghz.

 

Even under Vista my system wouldnt crank decent frames until I overclocked to beyond 3ghz. Currently Im running 3360x1050 accross two 22"w LCD and returning average 30fps with the same spec as you except for Vista32/DCSmax/CPU at 3.2ghzOC

 

I would bother with WIN7 just yet as theres always driver issues and other bugs with any new WIN build. I usually pick up the new OS after they release the first service pack. Im a Vista fan though if you have it already, why not :)

[fangav]

btaft, I have a similar system, main dif is 9600's SLI, and have just gone from XP to the windows 7, 64 bit, pre release and nearly doubled my fps using DCSMax .

[bengo]

Btaft, I've got the same system as yours, but run BS on Vista32. I use MSI's Dynamic Overclock Tool and that crancks up the CPU to 3.2Mhz.

I use DCSMax to lauch BS, so the affinity is set automatically at each launch.

If you want to compare properly you need to have testresults of the two systems under the same circumstances. So, tell me what standard BS-mission and what situation you want an FPS-number from and I'll look it up for you.

BTW, I'm running 1920x1200 on a 24", and running in windowed mode until the ship-bug gets fixed.

Edited June 11, 2009 by bengo

[Xjikz]

The Core 2 Duo E6850 is supposed to work @3Ghz, so first make sure you make it run at the "normal" speed you will have some more FPS.

Refer to the manual of your motherboard for the settings.

[LoBiSoMeM]

No real need to overclock. Install Vista or W7, x64, and add 2GB or more of RAM.

 

I compared the performance with X2 6000+, XP and only 2GB with all the "steps" toward Vista x64 and 4GB. Upgrading to Vista x64, gain in FPS. With 4GB and no swap file, no little "gasps".

 

Totally smooth now!

[btaft]

Thank you everyone for your input.

 

I think I am going to first try to overclock (I was wrong about my processor, I actually have a 6750)

 

A quick question to Lobisomem, is Vista 64 necessary or would the 32 bit version give similar results. The RAM is super cheap now. The same set I bought over a year ago for $99 is now only $39.

[Kurtz]

I think under 32bit operating systems your total RAM is limited to 4gb. This limitation is the total of all your onboard memory.

 

If you have 4gb of ram and a 1gb GFX card, then you only actually utilize 3gb of your RAM.

 

So if you want lots of RAM then 64bit is probably the go. If this info is incorrect could somebody comment please.

[Distiler]

DCS soon is gonna be updated to 64bit technology so my bet is go for this!

[smithcorp]

Just a quick note - I'm running DCS on a dual core 6750 not overclocked, 8600GTS and 4 Gb of ram on Vista Home 32. I get good framerates (30-40 in busy areas, which I find absolutely fine and about 70 frames elsewhere) and use DCS Max to set the affinity.

[btaft]

Well overclocking didn't seem to work too well for me, had some major crashes (I guess it is something I am just not good at.....I have an nvidia based MB which was supposed to make it easy....lol). I am leaning more towards changing operating systems. I know there are drivers for my MB and video card. a couple questions i have

 

1) Is there any difficulty getting Track IR4 to work with win7

 

2) Is there any problem with getting a TM cougar working as well.

 

3) Same thing for DCS max and the affinity tool.

 

Any exerience is appreciated

[Zorrin]

I am using Win 7 32-bit on Bootcamp and found that DCSMax while it would run, I couldn't get it to work properly. It would pop up and give you the overlay message about affinity, but it would keep blinking so I just switched it off.

 

Haven't yet manually managed to set the affinity because Windows says I'm not allowed!?!

 

DCSMax was probably a case of needing to be run in Administrator mode to solve that I guess?

[JG14_Smil]

load BS in another folder besides the x86 and you don't need the silly permission to use your own computer :)

[EtherealN]

Well overclocking didn't seem to work too well for me, had some major crashes (I guess it is something I am just not good at.....I have an nvidia based MB which was supposed to make it easy....lol).

 

It is easy if the appropriate steps are taken and the correct hardware is present. For example, I would not recommend doing it with a standard CPU cooler. Also, if you are running DDR2 and overclock through the FSB (since most current CPU's have a locked multipluer), then you want to make sure you are tweaking the FSB-Memory "ratio" or "unlink" it - otherwise you are simultaneously overclocking the entire system including the RAMsticks and you can cause disasters. Take it real slow and be sure you are doing it one component at a time.

 

Also make sure to have read a lot of articles on it. If this is your first, this following article is good: http://techreport.com/articles.x/13815

 

Do not stop at that article though. Read more of them, lots more of them. Only when you feel you are confident enough in your mastery of various diagnostic tools like Orthos, Prime95 etcetera and have the appropriate temperature monitors active should you try it.

 

----

 

EDIT: I'll add this from that article as well, since it might be relevant to your system if I understand the scenario correctly:

 

Even more important than individual component choices is having a completely stable system before you dive into overclocking. If you're building a new system from scratch' date=' stress test it at stock speeds to ensure that everything is working properly. The last thing you want is to burn an afternoon trying in vain to overclock a system hampered by a faulty component that isn't even stable at stock speeds.[/quote']

 

This is extremely important. Do run some testing with applications like Orthos or similar stresstersters to ensure that your system truly is stable. BUT - do so only while having temperature monitors active and in plain sight, and be prepared to stop the stress-test. Stock up on drinks and go to the toilet before you begin, because if there's faulty cooling there might well be a threshhold where things get ugly real fast. In the case of my system I originally tested to see where I could go with the stock cooler, and found through a test with Orthos that at maximum load I would reach a point around 70ish degrees celcius (climbing to it slowly) where the stock cooler just couldn't cope anymore and temperature was rising FAST to and beyond 80-85, where I cancelled the test and ordered a "proper" CPU cooler.

 

Again though, read some dedicated articles on the topic before doing it. The more the merrier. And only turn it into "practice" once you are feeling very confident that you know each step well and has a good understanding of the safety procedures associated with everything.

Edited June 15, 2009 by EtherealN

[AussieFX]

Well overclocking didn't seem to work too well for me, had some major crashes (I guess it is something I am just not good at.....I have an nvidia based MB which was supposed to make it easy....lol). I am leaning more towards changing operating systems. I know there are drivers for my MB and video card. a couple questions i have

 

1) Is there any difficulty getting Track IR4 to work with win7

 

2) Is there any problem with getting a TM cougar working as well.

 

3) Same thing for DCS max and the affinity tool.

 

Any exerience is appreciated

Personally I don't think overclocking will help much, that cpu should be ok.

I would download Win7 RC but make sure you get the x64 version as this game loves ram.

Yes TIR4 works and so does DCS Max, not sure about the Cougar but I can't see why it wouldn't, I'm using an MS FFB2 with no issue.

Get some more ram, the game will love you for it.

 

Beware that the RC of Win7 only lasts for around 12 months and then it will start turning off at 2 hour intervals so you WILL need to buy a retail copy of it inside a year if you want to run it.

[Guest Darklighter]

I think under 32bit operating systems your total RAM is limited to 4gb. This limitation is the total of all your onboard memory.

 

If you have 4gb of ram and a 1gb GFX card, then you only actually utilize 3gb of your RAM.

 

So if you want lots of RAM then 64bit is probably the go. If this info is incorrect could somebody comment please.

This is only partly true. You are limited to 4GB of total system RAM because it is a 32bit operating system. Also, apps running in 32bit can only take advantage of 2gb of RAM. 2GB for apps 2Gb for system. Hence the creation of 3gb switch. You also need to be careful of the video card, People with the monster 1gb ram graphics cards will eat into the 2GB reserved for the app. Thus making even less memory available for the app.

 

Now, the major misunderstanding with the 64bit OSses is that poeple think that 32bit applications will use more RAM. This is not the case. The same memory limitations exist for 32bit applications in 64bit environments as in 32bit unless the app is specifically coded for 64 bit or the exe has been made large address aware. As far as I know DCS is not coded for 64bit. It could be large address aware.

 

So, in this scenerio:

"If you have 4gb of ram and a 1gb GFX card, then you only actually utilize 3gb of your RAM."

 

You are probably only utilizing 1GB to 1.5 GB for the app. The other .5GB is being used for video swap space because of the large amount of ram present on the video card. There is a large discussion on this in the Empire Total War forums on this very issue.

 

Hope this helps some.

 

Looking at his system specs. I'd go to 4GB of RAM first. RAM is pretty cheap now. At least in the US.

Edited June 15, 2009 by Darklighter

[btaft]

Thanks Darklighter. I think I might start with the extra ram (since that woul dhave been part of the plan for going 64 bit), it is very cheap right now. I orginally bought 800 MHz DDR2 I might go for the 1333 MHz and get 4GB of that and just swap it out completely. I wasn't aware of the application RAM limitation that you mentioned

[beugnen]

I think under 32bit operating systems your total RAM is limited to 4gb. This limitation is the total of all your onboard memory.

 

If you have 4gb of ram and a 1gb GFX card, then you only actually utilize 3gb of your RAM.

 

So if you want lots of RAM then 64bit is probably the go. If this info is incorrect could somebody comment please.

 

yup that's basically correct.

 

a 32bit OS is limited to integer ranges up to 4,294,967,295 - which just happens to be 4GB. now here i refer to amount of memory available to the OS, it does not necessarily mean the max memory available to a single app. virtual memory is much more complex now then i last looked at it in my c++ days of 4 or so years ago. to make things more interresting, vista has 'changed' the way memory works. a posting from the devs from PMDG 747-400x raised this on their web site. http://ops.precisionmanuals.com/wiki/747-400_FSX_Technical_Specs_&_Performance

 

Depending on your add-in hardware and how it maps to the upper physical address space, you will end up with:

 

4GB - reserved-by-hardware[1] = memory-available-to-you

 

[1] the dreaded 32bit TAX!

 

i dont think its always the case that a 1GB vid card will always pinch 1GB of RAM from your base memory. before i moved to vista64, my dual 768MB cards left me with a total of 3GB - so it seemed that not all memory is mapped. moving to vista64 and now i have all my 4gb. yay! :) i suspect each system will vary

 

happy simming!

 

EDIT: doh! as darklighter said. did not see his reply ;)

Edited June 16, 2009 by beugnen
pmdg

[Kurtz]

Thanks Darklighter. I think I might start with the extra ram (since that woul dhave been part of the plan for going 64 bit), it is very cheap right now. I orginally bought 800 MHz DDR2 I might go for the 1333 MHz and get 4GB of that and just swap it out completely. I wasn't aware of the application RAM limitation that you mentioned

 

Remember to de-activate DCS first. Last week I added one ram chip to my system. Initially I put it in the wrong channel and after swapping things around a few times Starfish saw this as hardware changes and smoked one of my activations. One ram chip and zero other hardware changes = one activation :huh: