bflagg Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 Thanks to Shepski and Trident for your responses. I have considered most of what you both suggested, but as Trident suggested the UBI situation, which I thought about, but didn't give it enough weight. I have other thoughts and points, but a open forum this is not the place for them... Thanks to you both for your replies... Brett Thanks, Brett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dlink Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 Hi, First off, I know nothing of thier business or sales model but... I believe they will price v1.1 in a way that it's cost to the consumer will be at the current market value for whatever country it is sold in. In the east, $5 or $10 is probably all they can expect to sell it for but in the west, including Canada, Europe, South America, and Australia where consumers will pay $35 or more for a single MSFS aircraft, virtual co-pilot, or flight planning utility, I think Eagle should charge what the market will allow. When comparing v1.1 to a single MSFS Beach Baron or Cessna Caravan payware aircraft/panel for example, that sells for $35... what is the best value? AND I 100% agree with this, but don't you think that if you and I are right that this is 180 degrees away from all this "piracy causes high prices" that has been touted over the last god knows how many years. After all, if we are right, this would mean that if there was MORE piracy in the US and Canada that prices would be lower here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
condor11 Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 AND I 100% agree with this, but don't you think that if you and I are right that this is 180 degrees away from all this "piracy causes high prices" that has been touted over the last god knows how many years. After all, if we are right, this would mean that if there was MORE piracy in the US and Canada that prices would be lower here. You actually belive that crap about how software is expensive due to piracy?! If it wasn't for piracy we'd be paying double if not tripple the current price. Did you notice the price of music CD's five years ago and now? Music piracy flourished in the last few years and CD prices came down. How come? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arizona Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 Well, if westerners are paying five times more for Flaming Cliffs, then shouldn't a western jet be on the list for add-ons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bflagg Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 Well, if westerners are paying five times more for Flaming Cliffs, then shouldn't a western jet be on the list for add-ons? which was the point of my original question....because of the higher return from that economic zone Thanks, Brett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bflagg Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 D-link isn't advocating it.. He's just point out the difference from Shep post... Thanks, Brett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bflagg Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 followup..... Each person, per economic zone, can afford things ONLY in proportion to their income. And the marketplace is adjusted accordingly. Also percieved value per item/product in each area also takes play here...and let's not forget (wish we could) taxation in all it's forms. "Most" of those who kowtow to the piracy cause higher prices, just isn't thinking things thru, or are nothing more than Marketers "selling" their wares capitalizing on fear or ignorace of the consumer. Insurance companies (to some success) are saying exactly the same thing in the US. But you and I know, if no one, anywhere, ever commits insurance fraud.. the premiums will still rise... Thanks, Brett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIOLOG Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 Nop it shouldn't. Guys try to understend... First of All there is very sketchy info available on Western aircraft... Something Like F-16 doesn't have all systems declassified, and would require a lot of time to model accurately (especially avionics-wise) With regard to higher return from Economic zone... I think there will be much more copyes sold in CIS then in the wast, so... Not sure how valid is that point The bird of Hermes is my name eating my wings to make me tame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiskeyRomeo Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 Moving to OZON.ru and purchase FC now! Looks more like a pre-order to me. Has anyone managed to actually download FC yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwingKid Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 Help me understand something here.. (and I'm not trying to be counterproductive with this question).... ED is going to charge everyone else less than US citizens, but ignore the highest ROI per capita spent and not do enhancements that us "privileged" ask for? (1) ED does not set the price for Russian citizens. What OZON and 1C want to charge for the product they paid for is up to them. (2) ED does provide its own high-bandwidth distribution system for the Western version, and is free set its own price, which is the same for all downloaders regardless of country. (3) English-speakers are not ignored. Rather, constructive contributions are welcome regardless of a person's nationality. The very existence of an English-language version at all, complete with translated documentation, represents ED's continued dedication when no software publisher in your hemisphere would serve you. (4) Regardless of unit price, Lock On still did better in CIS countries than in the west. (5) Western users are not asking for "enhancements" any different than the ones Russian users are asking for. -SK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DeathAngelBR Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 Did someone say... people in South America pay US$35 for a single MSFS plane? :cool: Someone doesn't read the newspaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dlink Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 You actually belive that crap about how software is expensive due to piracy?! If it wasn't for piracy we'd be paying double if not tripple the current price. Did you notice the price of music CD's five years ago and now? Music piracy flourished in the last few years and CD prices came down. How come? No, I don't believe that, I have been discussing this very point for years that piracy has virtually no effect on prices, other than being used as a convienient excuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dlink Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 (1) ED does not set the price for Russian citizens. What OZON and 1C want to charge for the product they paid for is up to them. (2) ED does provide its own high-bandwidth distribution system for the Western version, and is free set its own price, which is the same for all downloaders regardless of country. (3) English-speakers are not ignored. Rather, constructive contributions are welcome regardless of a person's nationality. The very existence of an English-language version at all, complete with translated documentation, represents ED's continued dedication when no software publisher in your hemisphere would serve you. (4) Regardless of unit price, Lock On still did better in CIS countries than in the west. (5) Western users are not asking for "enhancements" any different than the ones Russian users are asking for. -SK Correct me if I am wrong. Are you saying that ED is gouging the western countries because they can, not because they have to. After all, if ED is producing this game with their own money and on their own, this means they can charge what they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bflagg Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 (1) ED does not set the price for Russian citizens. What OZON and 1C want to charge for the product they paid for is up to them. (2) ED does provide its own high-bandwidth distribution system for the Western version, and is free set its own price, which is the same for all downloaders regardless of country. (3) English-speakers are not ignored. Rather, constructive contributions are welcome regardless of a person's nationality. The very existence of an English-language version at all, complete with translated documentation, represents ED's continued dedication when no software publisher in your hemisphere would serve you. (4) Regardless of unit price, Lock On still did better in CIS countries than in the west. (5) Western users are not asking for "enhancements" any different than the ones Russian users are asking for. -SK SK. Good day! For 1. I wasn't just implying russian market in this question. For 2. No argument from me on this ... For 3. I'm not complaining, just it would seem to me that a higher return of $$ would lead a dev/company to better cater to that market segment. 4. Really? Wow! 5. Agree, but I tried not make this a US<>Russian tech fight.. Knowing #4, I can now understand. I can alway count on you (and others) to make me rethink... (god. I really enjoy a good conversation) Thanks, Brett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwingKid Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 Correct me if I am wrong. Are you saying that ED is gouging the western countries because they can, not because they have to. After all, if ED is producing this game with their own money and on their own, this means they can charge what they want. $35 is not "gouging" for the time and work that went into v1.1. Please, let's be realistic. Any "hardcore" flight sim maker, even a successful one, is in a perpetual struggle to survive - there is no such luxury as "because they can", certainly not before they actually know how many sales there are going to be, or when an online store is being started up for the first time. They do need to stay in business, and pay for the new distribution hardware and other costs attached to the English version that the contract with 1C will not cover. The way a developer stays in business with one product is different from how a retailer manages with many. 1C and OZON's distribution networks are already established and paid for. If they can stay in business selling ED's $35 sim for $7 a copy, that doesn't mean that ED can. The "Staples" shop in Canada was also selling Lock On itself for about $7 US, just a few months after release. ED couldn't stop them, either. What does it have to do with Russia? Notwithstanding the average salary, Moscow itself is one of the most expensive cities in the world. People everywhere need to eat. The "Russian" vs "Western" separation is not an ED construct, but rather something outside their control, greatly limiting their ability to respond to complaints about it. On the one hand you have Russian-speaking programmers who trigger feelings of envy when they type in the language they know, no matter how many English-speaking moderators and testers they bring on board to help. On the other hand the only publisher that still buys from ED is in Russia - 1C will have its own policies about copy-protection and pricing that they cannot ignore. IMHO it is not a productive theme for criticism - all that can be done, has been done. I think there are other, more constructive things to criticize... like, the lack of AI F-15E. :) -SK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwingKid Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 I can alway count on you (and others) to make me rethink... (god. I really enjoy a good conversation) Just so you know, I once started out as a vocal critic of an earlier ED product myself. I didn't know the people involved or what challenges they faced - all I knew was that I saw a lot more potential in the sim than I thought was being fulfilled. So, I know where you're coming from. Even today, I find it difficult to trust all decisions that are made "behind the scenes". More often then not though, I find myself changing my opinion later, as I observe and learn more. ED has good people. New features will come when they can, you'll see. -SK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilBivol-1 Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 And I began as a major fanny of Flanker and ED, but turned sour around the release of what is probably the same product you have in mind, SK. And, like yourself, look back on that short-lived (but more public than I'd like)adventure as an unfortunate turn in the otherwise happy decade of ED simming. "Good people" is right. - EB [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Nothing is easy. Everything takes much longer. The Parable of Jane's A-10 Forum Rules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fjordmonkey Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 Well, if westerners are paying five times more for Flaming Cliffs, then shouldn't a western jet be on the list for add-ons? Why? ED is a russian company, they want to concentrate on russian hardware (which is cooler than US hardware in my opinion). Why should a western jet be included? Regards Fjordmonkey Clustermunitions is just another way of saying that you don't like someone. I used to like people, then people ruined that for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JG27_Arklight Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 For what it's worth, the price of the Russian version to a Russian citizen is about $35 (roughly) to an American citizen. Any comparison pertaining to why it costs so much here compared to there is pretty much a moot issue since the average Russian person doesn't make squat compared to an American. For reference, the Russian "Middle Class": What is the Russian middle class? We have established that today's middle-class Russians are people who earn from $150 (in Moscow $200) to $1000 dollars for each household member. The average Russian in this group earns $320 per month or $3,900 per year. The typical middle-class household consists of 3.08 people, which means that the family earns about $12,000 per year. This type of household makes up around 25% of the Russian population, or 11 million households. The overall average Russian household today has three members and earns around $100 per month per person. http://eng.expert.ru/expertma/ Ark ------------------ Windows 10 Pro x64 9900K @ 5ghz Gigabyte Aorus Master Z390 32GB G.Skill Trident Z RGB CAS 14 EVGA RTX 2080 Ti Ultra XC2 256gb Samsung 869 Pro (Boot Drive) 1TB - Samsung 970 EVO Plus Seasoninc 1000w Titanium Ultra PSU 34" ASUS PG348 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamble Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 Hello, I am Robert from Germany! I am a enthusiastically "Lockon" fan and i am pleased on the fact that "ED" developed the program further toward realism. Which airplane is represented, was never so importand for me than the realism. It was also never importantly for me whether a western or eastern airplane is represented. The west - perspective I understood never and am glad that times something else than F18, F16 or otherwise such a thing is represented. The fact that the prices orient themselves at market conditions and develop also from logistic reasons so different costs is normal in different regions. Glad obout the fact that ED produced also a english version, I expect a good product and pay the indicated price here in western region. I wish „ED“ commercial success with „Flaming Cliffs“ and hope that we count a good helocopter add-on in the near future. No money – no party (excuse my bad english) Asus P6T | Intel i7 920 (2,67) @ 3,60 Ghz | Geforce GTX570 | Sound: Realtec onboard | 6 GB Kingston KHX 12800 DDR3 | Windows 7 Pro 64bit | SSD-HDD | TM WARTHOG # 01069 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilGun Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 For reference, the Russian "Middle Class": What is the Russian middle class? We have established that today's middle-class Russians are people who earn from $150 (in Moscow $200) to $1000 dollars for each household member. The average Russian in this group earns $320 per month or $3,900 per year. The typical middle-class household consists of 3.08 people, which means that the family earns about $12,000 per year. This type of household makes up around 25% of the Russian population, or 11 million households. The overall average Russian household today has three members and earns around $100 per month per person. http://eng.expert.ru/expertma/ That's true but it doesn't reflect the situation of average LockOn user. This people can spend lots of money for hardware to play that sim and it doesn't matter for him is LockOn costs $7 or $35. Working in a software selling company, I know that most of users even don't think is the product they buying legal or not, there is absolutely no defference for them. They buying pirated products not because they can't afford legal but just because that is cheaper. To my mind, low or high family overal income doesn't make piracy, I've read somewhere than most of servers filled with pirated software are hosted not in Russia and even not in China, but in a much economicaly advanced countries. So, does it mean that their citizens can't affoard a game for $35? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schimmel Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 What CP does the russian boxed version have? Is there a hardware/installation limitation? Do I have to activate? If so, is activation possible in the West? I think so, as far as I understand SF. When there's no hardware/installation limit, believe me I'll get a russian copy and learn the cyrillic alphabet. I'll just give a guy 20 euros for sending me a copy. So he gets his copy for free and we have +2 happy guys on the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team Groove Posted March 31, 2005 ED Team Share Posted March 31, 2005 I hope this is just a joke. I have to pay 35 $ while russian citizens around 5-7 $ ? Our Forum Rules: http://forums.eagle.ru/rules.php#en Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Kurr Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 I'm going to MAKS this year, and the trip includes a few days in Moscow to buy souvenirs etc. I'll definately search for a Russian copy of FC. Dutch Flanker Display Team | LLTM 2010 Tiger Spirit Award Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DeathAngelBR Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 I hope this is just a joke. I have to pay 35 $ while russian citizens around 5-7 $ ? Capitalist pig!!!1!!1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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