AIR REFUEL button also sets the flight control gains in takeoff and landing mode?

[Michael-Fr]

Hello,

Chuck's manual states that the AIR REFUEL button also sets the flight control gains in takeoff and landing mode (at the beginning of his guide, in the cockpit controls overview section)? this is surprising, he does not mention its use for takeoff..
Do you do this? if so, are the gains significant?

best regards,
Michael

[razo+r]

If you lower the gear, the FCS automatically puts your flight controls into takeoff and landing gains. Opening the refueling door will do absolutely nothing besides make you look goofy.

[Michael-Fr]

Thanks

[Ala12Rv-Tundra]

5 hours ago, razo+r said:

If you lower the gear, the FCS automatically puts your flight controls into takeoff and landing gains. Opening the refueling door will do absolutely nothing besides make you look goofy.

I read and re-read again and Im seeing otherwise of what you said.

Air refuel to OPEN, the FLCS will apply differente gains than regular flight mode.

[BIGNEWY]

Hi,

worth noting, having the refuelling door open also adjusts control response. 

thank you 

 

[razo+r]

3 minutes ago, Ala12Rv-Tundra said:

I read and re-read again and Im seeing otherwise of what you said.

Air refuel to OPEN, the FLCS will apply differente gains than regular flight mode.

Let me rephrase

With gear down, opening the refueling door will do nothing since the gear down already puts the FLCS into landing gains.

OP was talking about it in the context of takeoff, so naturally gear will be down in that scenario.

Edited December 9, 2024 by razo+r

[Ala12Rv-Tundra]

1 minute ago, razo+r said:

Let me rephrase

With gear down, opening the refueling door will do nothing since the gear down already puts the FLCS into landing gains.

OP was talking about it in the context of takeoff, so naturally gear will be down in that scenario.

got you now, thanks!

[Mapi]

https://www.f-16.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=53675

 

[Carbon715]

Only time to open with landing gear down is to test prior to taxi or opening after landing to hot pit

[Red Dog]

On 12/12/2024 at 3:42 AM, Carbon715 said:

Only time to open with landing gear down is to test prior to taxi

Doesn't work in DCS - you cannot test AR on the ground as when you do it, the NWS button doesn't disconnect but enables the nose wheel system...

Quote

or opening after landing to hot pit

 

This is mandatory if you want to refuel on the ground as it depressurize the tanks and allows to fill them correctly
Failure to open AR door in DCS before refuelling on the ground will provide abnormal fillup which is indeed a good point

[Carbon715]

3 hours ago, Red Dog said:

Doesn't work in DCS - you cannot test AR on the ground as when you do it, the NWS button doesn't disconnect but enables the nose wheel system...

That is for a D model only

[phyrBlaine]

On 12/14/2024 at 5:08 PM, Carbon715 said:

That is for a D model only

What's your source? When pressed on the ground, NWS Button should display AR disconnect, if AR Port is open. Otherwise, how would you be able to test AR system during Ground Checks? Sadly, in DCS, it doesn't work properly.

[Tholozor]

1 hour ago, phyrBlaine said:

What's your source? When pressed on the ground, NWS Button should display AR disconnect, if AR Port is open. Otherwise, how would you be able to test AR system during Ground Checks? Sadly, in DCS, it doesn't work properly.

It's in the -1 manual. The A/R DISC button check is noted as only being applicable to D models.

[Red Dog]

I doubt it's for the D only.
Aviation philosophy is to test everything possible, why would you not be able to test the AR system when flying a single seat aircraft and being specifically able to test this from the rear seat when flying a D.
Sorry but from a pilot perspective it doesn't make any sense at all

Beside, If that's the case, why do the regular checklists mention the AR check as explained above regardless of C or D model ?

[Tholozor]

You're free to have your opinion, but the flight manual is very clear about it. The only AR check for either model is to open the AR door and verify the RDY light is on and DISC light is off (if both lights are on then a relay has failed). D models then perform the DISC button check. Final check is for either model is to close the door and verify the RDY light goes out.

[phyrBlaine]

On 5/3/2025 at 12:41 PM, Red Dog said:

I doubt it's for the D only.
Aviation philosophy is to test everything possible, why would you not be able to test the AR system when flying a single seat aircraft and being specifically able to test this from the rear seat when flying a D.
Sorry but from a pilot perspective it doesn't make any sense at all

Beside, If that's the case, why do the regular checklists mention the AR check as explained above regardless of C or D model ?

Just checked it, and Tholozor is absolutely right about it. Doesn't make a lot of sense for me, but still true.

[MAXsenna]

Today I learned something new. Guess more than me do the startup according to another Viper sim.

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[DummyCatz]

By switching to Take-off and Landing Gains, you essentially command pitch-rate with your stick, instead of G. And the FLCS will hold 0 pitch-rate (instead of 1g as in Cruise Gains) when hands off stick. This is beneficial to flying qualities at lower speeds (e.g. < 400 knots) so you can manipulate pitch-rate more precisely.

The only difference in FLCS logic between using the AIR REFUEL button and lowering the gear is that, the AIR REFUEL button will not lower the flaps automatically.