Bremspropeller Posted August 11 Posted August 11 (edited) Weren't there Victors in the air most of the time to support EELs farther out over the North Sea? I mean, it is a compelling AEROPLANE, but the cockpit and it's overall aesthetics are a b-side Monty Python sketch. F.2A out of Gütersloh go brrrr... Edited August 11 by Bremspropeller 4 So ein Feuerball, JUNGE!
Tengah Posted August 13 Posted August 13 (edited) The EEL from the F.1a through to the F6 enjoyed the ability to AAR, not commonly used on the earlier versions (F.1a to F.3 and T.4). The F.2's and F.2a's were mainly RAF Germany aircraft, and as with the Buccaneers AAR was considered surplus to requirement due to the short durations of flight to targets. The UK based Lightnings did use AAR via H.P. Victors, VC-10K's, etc. The EEL was only limited in time aloft by engine oil capacity and pilot fatigue. There were many 4 hour plus sorties flown by RAF lightnings... The aircraft would be a superb model for DCS despite its challenges. The cockpit is an ergonomic nightmare, and it would certainly be a high workload environment for anyone trying to fly it while staying ahead of the performance envelope. However, unfortunately, it would only appeal to a niche market within the DCS user base. Better chance as a free Mod or perhaps donation based ala Split Air's offerings. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I agree that the overall aesthetics leave something to be desired, especially the F.6... The T.5, in my humble opinion, was the more attractive variant. Edited August 13 by Tengah 1
Bremspropeller Posted August 13 Posted August 13 8 minutes ago, Tengah said: However, unfortunately, it would only appeal to a niche market within the DCS user base. Not sure abut that one, when all the DCS video'fluencers are basicly flying the Lightning design-mission: Take off in severe clear wether, with too little fuel to "increase performance", kill a couple of dudes in epic high-angle-off gun-engagements and then crash while trying to land ("...haven't read that page of the book yet..."). The EEL's the perfect jet for those fellas. 9 So ein Feuerball, JUNGE!
BalkanBattler Posted August 13 Posted August 13 9 minutes ago, Bremspropeller said: Take off in severe clear wether, with too little fuel to "increase performance", kill a couple of dudes in epic high-angle-off gun-engagements and then crash while trying to land ("...haven't read that page of the book yet..."). LOL You forgot "accidentally" disconnecting from the server the exact moment someone gets on their six 3
Tengah Posted August 13 Posted August 13 To be fair, if you got on the six of an EEL, you would have to hang on; she had a very respectable turn radius. RIAT 1987 Frightning Display Anyways, that is enough from me regarding the EEL, back to the 104 1
Kang Posted August 17 Posted August 17 I know it is, in all likelihood, being based on a Spanish example of the F-104G and that's perfectly fine, but do y'all see a chance for the incorporation of the AS.34 Kormoran anti-ship missile? 1
fausete Posted Sunday at 11:21 PM Posted Sunday at 11:21 PM Hi, it's actually being based on a German F-104 G Consortium. 3 2
TLTeo Posted Monday at 03:17 PM Posted Monday at 03:17 PM Can you say a bit more about the exact specs, or is that not set in stone yet? Some of the consortium/MAP jets differed a bit in terms of radar modes, symbology, avionics etc between air to air and air to ground jets for example. 1
Mike Force Team Posted Monday at 03:48 PM Posted Monday at 03:48 PM Will ZEL be included as an option or feature for the Starfighter? 1
Volator Posted Monday at 06:23 PM Posted Monday at 06:23 PM ZEL was never really a thing with the F-104. I'd rather like to see the devs' resources spent on something more relevant to be honest... 4 1./JG71 "Richthofen" - Seven Eleven
Mike Force Team Posted Monday at 08:07 PM Posted Monday at 08:07 PM I saw some YouTube videos showing test footage of ZEL in West Germany during the 1960s.
Bremspropeller Posted Monday at 10:02 PM Posted Monday at 10:02 PM (edited) 1 hour ago, Mike Force Team said: I saw some YouTube videos showing test footage of ZEL in West Germany during the 1960s. A handful (seven) of test launches were performed at Lechfeld. The project was killed, not least becauseof the re-arrangement of NATO towards flexible response. Spoiler The only thing to come out of it was the retrofit to the Martin Baker seat for the entire fleet, starting in '69. Spoiler Edited Monday at 10:08 PM by Bremspropeller 4 So ein Feuerball, JUNGE!
Mike Force Team Posted Monday at 11:44 PM Posted Monday at 11:44 PM The ZEL would great for the Germany map. It would fit in the scenario when the Cold War goes hot. 1
Kang Posted Tuesday at 10:11 PM Posted Tuesday at 10:11 PM 22 hours ago, Mike Force Team said: The ZEL would great for the Germany map. It would fit in the scenario when the Cold War goes hot. That would, after all, be the perfect time to get some flight tests done! 1
Mike Force Team Posted Tuesday at 11:36 PM Posted Tuesday at 11:36 PM I know the ZEL was a good idea but not feasible after testing. It was a high maintenance undertaking.
yewls Posted 17 hours ago Posted 17 hours ago On 8/10/2025 at 4:24 AM, Bremspropeller said: I wasn't, but at some time I became interested in the whole 104 affair and it soon showed that lots of strong opinins on the jet aren't based on proper understanding. That in large part is due to the smear campaigns by the press, wanting to hit back at FJ Strauss who had a news-magazine raided earlier. And because journos like to copy each other instead of actually going for a story. The story should not have been based on the "$h1tty jet", but on the fact that the whole organisation was incapable of technically and logistically supporting it, while other, smaller nations did a much better job. That was in part due to the 10-year post war hiatus of operting any kind of aeroplanes, but that's also a convenient excuse for organisational blunder. Parallels to current events are purely coincidental... For people that are actually interested in the 104G/ CF, get a copy of this book. It does a good job of explaining the strenghts and weaknesses of the 104 in it's recce and strike mission in the RCAF (mostly OPS'ing over Germany) and the general state of mind of 1960s and '70s Starfighter pilots. It helps understanding why so many jets crashed, flying an inherently dangerous mission - all weather low level strike and reconnaissance. I can't recommend this book highly enough - if you can only own one book on the 104, it should be this one. It's been out of print for a long time, but it should surface in the bay every once in a while: null thanks for the sauce on this book, echo the recommendation if you can get it
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