NVIDIA 5 Series cards - Get your wallets ready boys and girls....

[unlikely_spider]

5 minutes ago, The_Nephilim said:

I am with you on this one. the way they explained it yes you magically see the number FPS is higher but in reality it still looks like less.. I am not sold on the fake frames thing either it fact it is really bad..

I think it wouldn't be so bad if they didn't try to advertise it as doubling the performance from the current gen when it's really not. If it was an additional feature, and they actually gave us real benchmarks so that we could really be informed about the hardware, it would be different. But this whole thing seems really used-car-salesman to me.

[Panzerlang]

So NVidia goes Pimax. Interesting.

[Dangerzone]

2 hours ago, unlikely_spider said:

I think it wouldn't be so bad if they didn't try to advertise it as doubling the performance from the current gen when it's really not. If it was an additional feature, and they actually gave us real benchmarks so that we could really be informed about the hardware, it would be different. But this whole thing seems really used-car-salesman to me.

Yup. This ^^^. This discourages me off the 5xxx series. I can’t understand how anyone in marketing thinks it's a good idea to use this kind of spin or distortion, knowing it is opens them up expose them as misrepresenting - or being so cavalier with the truth. It leaves me me wondering—if they’re willing to misrepresent something so blatant, what might they be hiding in areas that are harder to verify?

That said, maybe I’m out of touch with what truly affects multi-national corporations. Perhaps credibility doesn’t hold the same weight or have the same impact for them as it does for the smaller businesses I'm more familiar with directly - where credibility is a significant factor. Maybe this approach works better for their bottom line, and I’m just in the minority with how it turns me off.

Edited January 8 by Dangerzone

[Nightdare]

18 hours ago, LucShep said:

Actually, it really doesn't create troubles there.
Both the Upscalling and Frame Generation tech of Nvidia does work very good resources wise, it's been a total success in that regard. 

The problem is in the execution, because it's all about the AI working on the background predicting what it doesn't know - hence all the artifacts that can only be mitigated so far.
Doesn't matter how good the tech will ever be, the AI can not predict the future, like where the user is moving and what he/she is doing, so the tech is all about "best guess estimation" magic trick work.

The "Fake Frames" of Frame Generation are exactly that.
It interpolates the image just like the "soap opera" effect that you can turn on in your TV, or that some broadcasting channels use. It's really just that in a more elaborate AI complex way.
So, let's say that this new Multi-Frame Generation of RTX5000 is 4x the performance.... you'll get an image motion "soap-opera effect" that is actually working four times slower in the background, because three of the four frames are "guess estimated", not real frames (just one is).
As in, imagine the game at 120FPS, but the main player object in game (aircraft / car / persona, etc) always feels like 30FPS (this is why it always feels strange, what you see and what you feel differs). And that's what they meant in the presentation with "RTX5070 as fast as RTX4090" (LOL) when in reality it isn't, at all.

Same thing can be said for DLSS, it lowers the resolution and then re-upscales it (a-la DLDSR) through AI algorithm.
And hence the very soft look in its final result, for which you always need to add a bit of sharpness (which then tends to add a bit of shimmering and aliasing, as side-effect). Some users resort to the DLSS-Tweaks tool, in an atempt to counter its issues.
This one is actually good for very high resolutions, and it'll surely have a place once 4K 240FPS and 8K 120FPS become the norm (we'll get there in coming years), but then we're talking 2D monitors, not VR where DLSS usually looks like vaseline has been plastered on your lenses.

None of these solutions work great for VR, because every little flaw of anything rendering related is hyper-magnified in VR, and so raw power is absolutely necessary.
...which then has to do with your next point:

If you have an RTX4090 then, no, I don't think the upgrade to the RTX5090 makes sense (unless you've got money to burn and "have to have the bestest", that is).
But if you come from, say, an RTX3080 or 2080Ti (and alikes), and DCS VR is your main hobby thing, then it starts to make sense - if you have the budget.

The point is, DCS is an odd beast in the world of gaming. It's probably the worst and most demanding sim/gaming title regarding VRAM consumption and inconsistent heavy rendering, with the ocasional stuttering and hitching always creeping in - always amplified in VR.
Especially in VR, with the latest headsets, you need as much raw power (core and mem clocks, speed and bandwidth) and VRAM (mem capacity) to counter the issues as best as possible, and this is available at its most on the RTX X090 GPUs only. 

I shiver just imagining if ED decides to adopt Ray-Tracing and Path-Tracing....  LOL

 

"We at Nvidia just added 3 liters of water to your beer, now you have more beer to drink"

Edited January 8 by Nightdare

[Blackhawk163]

If this card (5090) can at least give me a 25-30% boost in rasterization over my 4080s I’d be happy. It would push me over 85fps so then I can increase certain visual settings a bit higher to get back to down to 72fps without any up scaling.  

 

[LucShep]

2 hours ago, Blackhawk163 said:

If this card (5090) can at least give me a 25-30% boost in rasterization over my 4080s I’d be happy. It would push me over 85fps so then I can increase certain visual settings a bit higher to get back to down to 72fps without any up scaling.  

 

The problem is, we hear that with every new GPU release. 
(heard it all before when the 780/Ti got out, then the 980/Ti, and the 1080/Ti, then the 2080/TI, and then the 3080/3090, and 4080/4090, and now 5080/5090...)

Then DCS moves along with its own "evolution" (but is it? ...plenty times looks like the opposite), and the goal posts are moved further and further away from the capabilities of what you paid so hard to achieve. And so there we go rinse and repeat every two or three years....

I know this is a completely different subject for another topic but, seriously, sometimes you gotta wonder if it makes sense. 

 

6 hours ago, BitMaster said:

On what Planet does Jensen live ?

I rather stop playing all together than paying big bucks for fake frames.

This has gotten WAY out of control

6 hours ago, EightyDuce said:

Are you saying you don't have a $10,000 gaming command center like the rest of us? 

6 hours ago, BitMaster said:

That's not the point, is the absurd philosophy behind it.

"Der Krug geht zum Brunnen bis er bricht"  comes to my mind

^^ this right here.

That video may sound a bit bitter but, really, it is true.  How out of touch can that Jensen-leather-jacket guy be?

ED should also do something more, IMO. Optimizations are at reach and ignored for years. It'd also save people some money because it could represent similar performance while being with one tier down of GPU, and for longer.

....unless ED, and the VR HMD manufacturers, all do a dinner party every year with Jensen-leather-jacket guy?  hmmm   

 

Edited January 9 by LucShep

[LucShep]

 

On 1/7/2025 at 2:15 PM, Lange_666 said:

Another thing I have a bit of problem with is the gap between the 5090 and 5080 where the 5080 only has 16GB VRAM and a 960 GB/sec bandwidth where the 5090 has 32GB VRAM and a 1792 GB/sec bandwidth. The 12GB VRAM on my 3080Ti easily gets filled up on more demanding maps so 16GB leaves again no headroom makes me not really interested in anything lower than a 5090. But then the price...

Oh don't you worry, Jensen-leather-jacket guy knows very well that people also want a 20 or 24 GB variant model....

A matter of waiting for a supposed "5080Ti 24GB" within a year from this? 

Something like that couldn't be released now, or it'd affect sales of the 5090 and the 5080.

 

Edited January 9 by LucShep

[Nightdare]

28 minutes ago, LucShep said:

 

Oh don't you worry, Jensen-leather-jacket guy knows very well that people also want a 20 or 24 GB variant model....

A matter of waiting for a suppposed "5080Ti 24GB" within a year from this? 

Something like that couldn't be released now, or it'd affect sales of the 5090 and the 5080.

 

They got several $100 between the 5080 and 5090 they can fill with 5080 Ultra/GTS/LE/TI/XL/SE/Super/Pro's

[EightyDuce]

1 hour ago, LucShep said:

The problem is, we hear that with every new GPU release. 
(heard it all before when the 780/Ti got out, then the 980/Ti, and the 1080/Ti, then the 2080/TI, and then the 3080/3090, and 4080/4090, and now 5080/5090...)

Then DCS moves along with its own "evolution" (but is it? ...plenty times looks like the opposite), and the goal posts are moved further and further away from the capabilities of what you paid so hard to achieve. And so there we go rinse and repeat every two or three years....

I know this is a completely different subject for another topic but, really, sometimes you gotta wonder if it makes sense. 

 

^^ this right here.

That video may sound a bit bitter but, really, it is true.  How out of touch does that Jensen-leather-jacket guy be?

  hmmm   

 

Thus my tongue-in-cheek repeat of Jensen's statement regarding "$10,000 control center PC" that he apparently thinks everyone of us has. Which would explain why he thinks nVidia pricing is perfect. 

The 12Gb $600 GPU in 2025 is just rubbing salt on the wound. 

[Steel Jaw]

Sure ok.  What body organ do I sell.

[SharpeXB]

33 minutes ago, Steel Jaw said:

Sure ok.  What body organ do I sell.

In the US you can get paid up to $800 selling your blood plasma. So that would work

[BitMaster]

It's the mix of things that turn me away.

Firstly, gamer's needs are only 2nd or 3rd behind Ai in the overall design of the die. Hence only the moderate raw rastering power increase, then..

in exchange for lack of raw power we get things like DLSS and other goodies to fix what DLSS breaks when in use ( delaayyyyy ayayay and Artifactsactsas  oops )

and on top of that, while we screw you anyway, let's rip you off too, BIG TIME.

 

Jensen, know what, Thank you for the lesson taught. I am done with Nvidia.

AMD is likely going the same way, I just hope their pricing remains more moderate and overall more gamer focused.

vor 1 Minute schrieb BitMaster:

It's the mix of things that turn me away.

Firstly, gamer's needs are only 2nd or 3rd behind Ai in the overall design of the die. Hence only the moderate raw rastering power increase, then..

in exchange for lack of raw power we get things like DLSS and other goodies to fix what DLSS breaks when in use ( delaayyyyy ayayay and Artifactsactsas  oops )

and on top of that, while we screw you anyway, let's rip you off too, BIG TIME.

 

Jensen, know what, Thank you for the lesson taught. I am done with Nvidia.

AMD is likely going the same way, I just hope their pricing remains more moderate and overall more gamer focused.

edit*

We are gamers, simmers, we want a 3D card and no Datacenter Derivate model that uses half of it's die for things totally useless for us, unless misguided by fake frames LoL

[Cobra5087]

Already got dibs on a 5090, going to trade my 4090 in.

[EightyDuce]

This is an interesting watch on the design of the 5090. Specifically the design of the cooler on the FE model. May further explain where some of the money went besides larger silicon, faster memory, and PCB design.

 

 

[Aapje]

Yeah, the cooler design is the most impressive part of the new gen. It seems quite expensive, though, so probably not something that we'll see on the lower end or from AIBs.

[Pipe]

My local PC parts store says Jan.30th for ordering 5080-5090, no pricing though

[LucShep]

Good video by HWBusters:
 

 

Edited January 15 by LucShep

[scommander2]

A nice video about 5090 cooling:

 

 

[av8orDave]

I feel for the DCS users that add a 50X0-series card to their system, only to have a DCS mission with a handful of AI units bring their CPU to its knees.

[SharpeXB]

I actually see that I’m currently GPU limited in DCS, so…

That’s with the max settings on a 4K screen at 100-120 FPS. Surprising really, I would figure the CPU is usually the bottleneck in sims like this. In MSFS it is for me. I need the Frame Generation there to get decent FPS but I gotta admit it’s very nice in that game. 

Edited January 15 by SharpeXB

[scommander2]

1 hour ago, av8orDave said:

I feel for the DCS users that add a 50X0-series card to their system, only to have a DCS mission with a handful of AI units bring their CPU to its knees.

I concur and I need that kind of power to boost up not only AI objects but also terrains.

[Pilotasso]

for people wanting higher than 16GB VRAM at a value, you better grab those 7900XTX's that are still in stores inventories. I think the new 9070XTX is DOA, at least where DCS is concerned.

Edited January 15 by Pilotasso

[Pilotasso]

5 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

I actually see that I’m currently GPU limited in DCS, so…

That’s with the max settings on a 4K screen at 100-120 FPS. Surprising really, I would figure the CPU is usually the bottleneck in sims like this. In MSFS it is for me. I need the Frame Generation there to get decent FPS but I gotta admit it’s very nice in that game. 

In all my upgrades since DCS first came out changing the GPU had more impact. Im talking 10%-20% increase by changing CPU and 60-80% when changing to a faster GPU (I usually skip 2-3 generations until the new GPU is at least 100% faster than my current one so that scales pretty well).

I usually build a new PC and re-used the old GPU for a few months before I plonk in the new one.

Also since ED made multithreading a reality, CPU's can leaverage their many cores in demanding scenarios much better transfering the bottleneck even more back to the GPU.

Edited January 15 by Pilotasso

[Aapje]

56 minutes ago, Pilotasso said:

I think the new 9070XTX is DOA, at least where DCS is concerned.

This is a very silly comment. First of all, the 9070 XTX doesn't exist. AMD will release the 9070 XT, so without the extra X.

Secondly, whether it is DOA (for DCS) depends on the price/performance, which we cannot judge right now, since we don't know the exact performance or price.

 

[The_Nephilim]

I would say I could hope that nobody buys the new 5xxx series and I really hope nobody buys the scalpers sales if it comes to that again.. I do believe I am at my last years of gaming.. if prices keep going like they are..