Track IR or VR ? Which is best for dogfighting?

[cptmrcalm]

For 90% of the time, TRACK IR is just fine. But for intense dogfighting, I don't think you can beat VR. What do you guys think? Curious to see how many prefer TRACK IR and why.

 

 

 

[SharpeXB]

I think the troubles with VR would be lower resolution and the ability to ID the enemy. And also the physical need to turn your body around constantly. That’s either cool and immersive or a handicap depending on how you look at it. I get the impression that many VR players feel this puts them at a disadvantage or is too straining. The use of mods like Necksafer that increase the head rotation speed to mimic TrackIR seems pretty common. I would think that’s potentially disorientation or sickness inducing though.
DCS recently added those spotting dots which are a mixed bag of benefits or exploits. Truth is they probably cease functioning WVR where dogfighting happens. The need for those dots seems to indicate that VR players are unable to see distant aircraft without graphic helpers which then vanish at a certain range. 

Edited January 10 by SharpeXB

[SharpeXB]

That’s a nice video, it must be nuts making that with the buggy and limited DCS replay tool

What might be difficult is going back and forth between the two. Using TrackIR exclusively doesn’t feel disorienting to me and DCS actually models the shoulder turn around the headrest quite naturally. 

[cptmrcalm]

Yes it is a lot of hard work to put these videos together - with very little return on my time. -Well. None actually. Other than building up a nice portfolio.

I do it purely out of love. 

(Thanks for that)

 

Indeed. DCS needs the clarity of the HP Reverb G2 or greater to identify targets as well as a monitor. I had the index before that and I couldnt decide TRACK IR over VR. The resolution wasn't quite sharp enough. The G2 though - changed all that.

I think for me, the priority has always been - what is the closest experience to a real life fighter pilot flying a fast jet. And that can only be achieved by putting yourself inside the world with VR.

I guess no experience is flawless - but the shortcomings aren't enough to spoil it.

 

I still use track ir for my channel. Saves me having to re-record flights again. I wish there was a way to get VR to look good for recording. 

 

[KenaiPhoenix]

VR all the way, at least when im going "all in", it is my way to go. Specially because you dont have to move your head but keep your eyes on the screen, for me it is a more natural movement than the track IR.

 

But I understand the shortcomings of VR:

- If you need to use more key, you will have to take off your device to press the key

- The cost in performance of having VR. When i tried (or just play without any "immerse" help) track IR, it was really nice to have everything in high and also have good fps

[SharpeXB]

1 hour ago, KenaiPhoenix said:

Specially because you dont have to move your head but keep your eyes on the screen

It’s funny that this seems to bother some people. Because using it for years this feels completely natural. In fact it did from the beginning. I feel no urge to actually look behind me when gaming

The trouble I see many people using VR complain about is that they are competing with players who can look around easily with small movements compared to having to constantly turn their entire body. Not only that but VR requires you to move even more than a real pilot would since you have this restricted FOV and small sweet spot depending on the headset. And you can’t physically grab on a cockpit to help yourself unless you actually built one or something, so you’re working harder. So virtual reality is either cool immersion or a handicap depending on what matters to you.

As an older guy I find it embarrassing to admit I hurt myself playing video games so I learned to play with just my thumbs and not my whole body

1 hour ago, KenaiPhoenix said:

The cost in performance of having VR. When i tried (or just play without any "immerse" help) track IR, it was really nice to have everything in high and also have good fps

That too. Higher frame rates equal more smooth and clear images. You get better visibility with better performance. 

Edited January 15 by SharpeXB

[Zebra1-1]

VR is amazing. I would never be able to go back to using monitors. But it does come at the cost of clarity and is more difficult to spot or keep eyes on targets. Also hits the wallet since you pretty much need to run a beefy GPU. Not sure about the 4080 series, but my buddy was hitting VRAM limits on his RTX 3080 (don't recall if it was 10GB or 12 GB) which is what made me go with the RTX 3090 (which I'm still using).

[Roosterfeet]

Spotting aside (that's a super complicated topic), I find Track IR to be superior for dogfighting because it's much easier to keep your target in your field of view (unrealistically so). It's like being able to turn your head 180 degrees behind you. I prefer to fly with VR though because I don't do anything competitive and you just can't beat that level of immersion. Also, you can really hurt your neck trying to look behind you in VR so be careful.

[SharpeXB]

17 minutes ago, Roosterfeet said:

it's much easier to keep your target in your field of view (unrealistically so)

It’s certainly possible IRL to look at your 6:00 it just requires effort that can’t be simulated in a PC game. Realize that looking 180 IRL doesn’t mean literally turning your head 180 like a VR HMD forces you to do. 

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

Yes ideally we would have VR headsets with a horizontal FoV of 210 degrees, but that will take quite some time. And also our current vertical FoV is too limiting.

[MADLOU1]

 

6 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

It’s certainly possible IRL to look at your 6:00 it just requires effort that can’t be simulated in a PC game. Realize that looking 180 IRL doesn’t mean literally turning your head 180 like a VR HMD forces you to do. 

There is a free VR program called Necksafer thats been around a long time which allows you to see behind you (or above you if you want) without turning your head much, a lot like tracIr does.  I do ALOT of dogfighting and without it my 70 year-old neck would'nt last 5 minutes!

[SharpeXB]

2 hours ago, MADLOU1 said:

 

There is a free VR program called Necksafer thats been around a long time which allows you to see behind you (or above you if you want) without turning your head much, a lot like tracIr does.  I do ALOT of dogfighting and without it my 70 year-old neck would'nt last 5 minutes!

Oh I know about Necksafer. Don’t you think that can make people sick? I would think combining that with the VR zoom view is

[MADLOU1]

8 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

Oh I know about Necksafer. Don’t you think that can make people sick? I would think combining that with the VR zoom view is

I know a lot of people who use it and dont get sick.  Conversely I know alot of people who get sick just using VR. It all depends on the person I guess.

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

11 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

Oh I know about Necksafer. Don’t you think that can make people sick? I would think combining that with the VR zoom view is

I use VR daily without issues in DCS, unless the movement of what I see doesn't correspond with the movement my head makes. If DCS freezes for example so there's a stationary image in my view that follows me around when I turn my head, my skin turns green indeed. 

 

2 hours ago, MADLOU1 said:

It all depends on the person I guess.

Fairy nuff, and I'm happy for you that you can use it without problems.

[Aapje]

12 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

Oh I know about Necksafer. Don’t you think that can make people sick? I would think combining that with the VR zoom view is

You can use it in different ways, and some of these are more likely to make you sick. I use snap turn, and I have absolutely no issues with it.