Tritolo41 Posted January 21 Posted January 21 Flying F-18 and Wingman, Singleplayer, VR mode, Last DCS update released January 20: Aircraft AI. S-3B refueling lights in VR is always broken. Wingman problem during refueling the filling time is too long or stuck with S-3B and also KC 135 , if you have the third wingman it gets stuck in the refueling phase without releasing anymore.
Tritolo41 Posted January 21 Author Posted January 21 I don't know what it is and how to do it, if you explain it to me I could do it only if this track has kept "in memory" the flight I did and the related bugs because I won't use DCS until Saturday
MAXsenna Posted January 21 Posted January 21 I don't know what it is and how to do it, if you explain it to me I could do it only if this track has kept "in memory" the flight I did and the related bugs because I won't use DCS until SaturdayMake a short mission to try to replicate the bug. Then, when you exit the mission, there will be a button called "Save track". Give the file a related file name, and drag and drop it here. Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk
Tritolo41 Posted January 22 Author Posted January 22 (edited) @MAXsenna In this mission you see my refueling and the problem with the Tanker's light and when I give the order to the wingman you see the connection problem to the probe and the interminable refueling time. you have the same problem with the KC 135 if there are 2 gregarious tanker.trk Edited January 22 by Tritolo41 2
MAXsenna Posted January 22 Posted January 22 @MAXsenna In this mission you see my refueling and the problem with the Tanker's light and when I give the order to the wingman you see the connection problem to the probe and the interminable refueling time. you have the same problem with the KC 135 if there are 2 gregarious tanker.trkGreat! Hopefully someone or the devs can have a look as I'm away from my computer for some time.The faulty lights on the S-3 has been reported I believe. Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk
Tritolo41 Posted January 22 Author Posted January 22 @MAXsenna to tell the truth in the update of January 20th the light problem was highlighted as solved. Anyway, thanks for your support! We hope it will be solved soon. 1
MAXsenna Posted January 22 Posted January 22 @MAXsenna to tell the truth in the update of January 20th the light problem was highlighted as solved. Anyway, thanks for your support! We hope it will be solved soon. Yes, it was in the changelog, but it has been acknowledged that the fix wasn't pushed with the patch. Hopefully next one. Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk 1
42jeff Posted January 23 Posted January 23 Having a problem with a few missions where AI aircraft either get right to the probe and won't connect or they seem to just refuel forever without finishing since the last patch. Am I special or is anybody else seeing this as well? 2 Don't Panic!
MAXsenna Posted January 23 Posted January 23 Having a problem with a few missions where AI aircraft either get right to the probe and won't connect or they seem to just refuel forever without finishing since the last patch. Am I special or is anybody else seeing this as well?Some other user reported something similar. Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk
Raven (Elysian Angel) Posted January 23 Posted January 23 (edited) A few days ago my F-16 wingman refuelled just fine, but since the change to tanker bank angles, the KC-135 and KC-130 are behaving very erratically in existing missions. Perhaps there is a link? Edited January 23 by Raven (Elysian Angel) Typo 1 Spoiler Ryzen 9 5900X | 64GB G.Skill TridentZ 3600 | Asus ProArt RTX 4080 Super | ASUS ROG Strix X570-E GAMING | Samsung 990Pro 2TB + 960Pro 1TB NMVe | VR: Varjo Aero Pro Flight Trainer Puma | VIRPIL MT-50CM2 grip on VPForce Rhino with Z-curve extension | Virpil CM3 throttle | Virpil CP2 + 3 | FSSB R3L | VPC Rotor TCS Plus base with SharKa-50 grip | Everything mounted on Monstertech MFC-1 | TPR rudder pedals OpenXR | PD 1.0 | 100% render resolution | DCS graphics settings
MAXsenna Posted January 23 Posted January 23 A few days ago my F-16 wingman refuelled just fine, but since the change to tanker bank angles, the KC-135 and KC-130 are behaving very erratically in existing missions. Perhaps there is a link?Righty! That makes sense. Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk
Flappie Posted January 23 Posted January 23 The issue with the S-3 is reported already. Can we have a short KC-135 track, please? ---
KevinAu Posted January 24 Posted January 24 AI aircraft now get stuck at the tanker with this latest patch. The attached trk is a training mission I have been using for a while now without problems until now. Takeoff from carrier, go bomb something at the island target range, hit a kc-130 for some gas, then go south and do some air to air with the air force, back to the ship at the end of a 1:15 cycle, with other ai flights doing their own 'training' too. The other ai flight of this cycle used to do their thing just fine at the tanker and then leave so that my flight can get a drink. Now with this new patch, ai aircraft are getting stuck at the tanker and not leaving. That F18 on the right drogue is totally stuck there. Also, this new 25-degree bank turn feature for refueling aircraft is completely unrealistic and makes a hard task unrealistically harder than it needs to be. According to ATP-56A, the NATO air to air refueling manual, the anchor pattern should be 50nm minimum length, and 20nm wide. 20 nautical miles wide. These tight 25-degree bank turns do not make a 20nm mile wide holding pattern (Annex 4A, Figure 4A Anchor Pattern). The previous 10-degree bank turns were much more realistic for a tanker in a tanker track. Please undo whatever these recent updates were and just go back to the old code. Refueling worked much better before than with these 'improvements' the last couple of patches. Please. RefuellingBug_.trk
Tritolo41 Posted January 24 Author Posted January 24 @Flappie Sorry, but I don't have time. Follow this simple procedure: 1.Start a single player flight, with 2 wingmen (total 3 F-18) 2. head towards the KC 135 tanker give the wingmen order to refuel, 3.the left wing tanker wingman will do so in a short time, 4.the right wing tanker wingman will remain attached for a long time withrefueling problem. Give it a try! 1
Flappie Posted January 24 Posted January 24 No issue for me. KC-135MPRS with two AI hornets_OK.trk 1 ---
laumaya Posted January 24 Posted January 24 A Track from instant action F16 air refueling in caucasus. f16 caucasus air refueling.trk I think that the bug is linked with Race-track orbit. 1 Current specs: Windows 10 64bit, i7-7700K @ 4.8 Ghz, 32 GB RAM, 1 To SSD, RTX2070-Super, TrackIR 5, TM Warthog, TM T.Flight Rudder Pedals
MAXsenna Posted January 24 Posted January 24 @Flappie Sorry, but I don't have time. Follow this simple procedure: 1.Start a single player flight, with 2 wingmen (total 3 F-18) 2. head towards the KC 135 tanker give the wingmen order to refuel, 3.the left wing tanker wingman will do so in a short time, 4.the right wing tanker wingman will remain attached for a long time withrefueling problem. Give it a try! Well, if you have time to fly the mission, I'm sure you have time to click "Save track", and drag and drop it here. Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk
KevinAu Posted January 24 Posted January 24 4 hours ago, Flappie said: No issue for me. KC-135MPRS with two AI hornets_OK.trk 368.67 kB · 2 downloads Well, maybe it worked fine on that one particular run, but there is indeed a problem, and it's been reported in multiple threads now. And it is not just a kc-135 and s-3b issue, but rather a general ai aircraft refueling issue, as it also afflicts ai aircraft refueling from the kc-130. Here is a trk that clearly shows the problem. This needs to be fixed as it completely porks aerial refueling when ai aircraft are involved. And I will also add that the new feature of the 25-degree banked turns is completely unrealistic and makes this task unnecessarily and unrealistically harder than it should be. The old ai refueling tanker behavior needs to be returned. RefuellingBug_.trk 2
Endline Posted January 24 Posted January 24 On 1/23/2025 at 4:24 PM, Raven (Elysian Angel) said: A few days ago my F-16 wingman refuelled just fine, but since the change to tanker bank angles, the KC-135 and KC-130 are behaving very erratically in existing missions. Perhaps there is a link? The S-3 as well, whose refuelling lights, by the way, remain unfixed despite claims to the contrary in the changelog.
Flappie Posted January 24 Posted January 24 2 hours ago, Endline said: The S-3 as well, whose refuelling lights, by the way, remain unfixed despite claims to the contrary in the changelog. The S-3 is already reported, and the light issue internal report is still open. This was an error in the changelog, indeed. 2 ---
Flappie Posted January 24 Posted January 24 6 hours ago, KevinAu said: Well, maybe it worked fine on that one particular run, but there is indeed a problem, and it's been reported in multiple threads now. I know, which is why I try to reproduce the issue. Thanks for the track, I'll check. 6 hours ago, KevinAu said: And I will also add that the new feature of the 25-degree banked turns is completely unrealistic and makes this task unnecessarily and unrealistically harder than it should be. The old ai refueling tanker behavior needs to be returned. A user rightfully reported that NATO's ATP-56 document states tankers can roll with a 25 degree angle, which is why the modification was made. But, it didn't go well apparently. If you have more reliable and public information, please bring it on. 1 ---
KevinAu Posted January 24 Posted January 24 38 minutes ago, Flappie said: I know, which is why I try to reproduce the issue. Thanks for the track, I'll check. A user rightfully reported that NATO's ATP-56 document states tankers can roll with a 25 degree angle, which is why the modification was made. But, it didn't go well apparently. If you have more reliable and public information, please bring it on. I am using the NATO ATP-56(A), from Nov 2000. On page 4A-1, Annex A which depicts the refueling anchor pattern, that holding pattern is described as minimum 50nm in length and 20nm in width. There is no way a 25 degree bank angle turn will give a shallow enough turn to scribe a 20nm *wide* holding pattern. The old tanker turn behavior was much closer to what is prescribed. The user who told you that the the tanker can roll with a 25 degree angle misread paragraph ‘d’ on page 4-1 of that document. This is what it says: d. Turning Angles of Bank and Range. A planning assumption of 25o angle of bank is used by tankers for most RV procedural turns mentioned in this Chapter. This angle of bank should be flown whenever possible; most of the tanker Turn Ranges in RV procedures are based on this planning assumption. Additional sets of Turn Range tables are provided for some RV procedures; these tables are based on the planning assumption of the tanker using the angle of bank specified in the table. So, the 25 degree bank angle is with reference to the rendezvous (RV) procedure only, not the holding pattern while connected to a receiver. It is part of the planning assumptions used to determine when a tanker approaching a receiver from head on should begin his turn around (procedural turn) to help affect a join up with a receiving flight. The 25 degree bank angle statement has nothing to do with the actual act of refueling. It is only used with relation to a rendezvous of two different flights. Please reinstate the old tanker 15 degree aob while refueling. That was correct. 1
Flappie Posted January 24 Posted January 24 That's exactly what I thought when I read the book yesterday evening, only the document is not very clear. There's already an internal request to get back to 15°, but devs want concrete proof, not interpretations, for they don't want to be mislead every 15 days and redo the work all over again. If you can provide an official doc saying tankers shouldn't exceed a 15° angle while refueling, that would be great. 1 ---
Recommended Posts