The T-50 (PAK-FA) Thread

[topol-m]

He is explaining the process of testing PAK-FA in aerodynamic tunnels. PAK-FA is tested in different configurations and these are secret that`s why he didn`t bring a small model of it but a training aircraft model instead. China is not mentioned at all. I think it`s almost impossible to include them in the development of this aircraft and I seriously doubt Russia and India will sell it to the chinese at least in the near future. He mentiones also that research is done on the 6th gen fighter and PAK-DA, but these projects are in a very early stage of development basically are just on paper as of now.

[mikoyan]

chinese Gov has hackers for that! they don't need to buy anymore... they also are getting better at building their own stuff.

[topol-m]

chinese Gov has hackers for that! they don't need to buy anymore... they also are getting better at building their own stuff.

 

The hacking potential of China is immense lol :D If they include hacking classes at school they will be unstoppable. But they still need to buy. Although their copy/paste skills are great there are pieces of technology that are still more cheap to buy than to copy not to speak about mass producing them...

[Antartis]

The latest Air International has an article on bad boy Pak Fa some pointers:

 

- Oval shaped antenna of the SH121 in current form is about 900mm wide and 700mm in height and contains 1526 T/R modules; the final antenna for Pak Fa will reportedly be larger and contain about 2000 modules

Tests for the new radar are supposedly starting in 2010 using a Tu134 (same jet used to train Blackjack crews). Five AESA antennas front Xband, two located on the side are also X band and two installed in wing leading edges are L band.

 

- Currently two AL-41F1 (izdeliye 117 - advanced version of AL41-F1S - izdeliye 117s used by Su35) rated at 147kn each.

It suggests that final versions or later versions will be powered by a new engine with >157kn thrust each.

 

- Tender for 2nd stage of engine was issued in 06 but cancelled in may 07. Proposals by both NPO Saturn and MMPP Salut were rejected due to "formal" reasons. According to Ilya Fedorov (GM of Saturn) the date contest has been moved to the first quarter of this year, but that does not mean necessarily that it will not be postponed again. Fedorov expects that the project will be carried out with co-operation of several companies led by Saturn:

- Core - Aviadvigatel in Perm together will Saturn will work on Core

- NPP Motor in Ulfa would make low pressure compressor fans and afterburner chamber

- Klimov in St Petersburg would make the TVC nozzle, gearbox and APU

- AMNTK Soyuz in Moscow will look after inlet guide vanes as well as rcs reduction for injun

- Series prod. for new engine likely to happen at UMPO Factory in UFA where 117 and 117s are manufactured

NPO Saturn is currenly offering participation to its greatest rival MMPP Salut (Moscow based), however Salut is expecting more as it wants to be a general integrator. Salut has lost the 1st stage injun tender and is continuing development of the AL-31 FM3 in hopes of powering the PAK FA rated at 152 kn.

 

- Engine TVC supposedly managed the same way as the MKI the nozzles move up and down (two dimensional) but the central plane of each nozzle is deflected aside (right to right and left to left) so the nozzles move within v-like intersecting planes. Inclusion of LEREXes a very important feature.

 

- There are quite a few pics of missiles(AA and AG) all with complete folding fins notable are 810 type AA missiles (4.2m or 13.9 ft) long range, multipurpose KH 38M (4.2m or 13.9ft) long weighing 520kg (1146lb) and KH58 USHK (4.2m or 13.9ft) long weighing 650kg anti radar missile. Each weapons bay reportedly are estimated to be 4.6m to 4.7m (15.1 to 15.5 ft long) and 1 to 1.1 m wide (3.3ft to 3.7ft) two 810 or KH38M or KH58USHK can be placed inside one weapon bay. Other smaller types of munitions include K77M, K74 and K30. Also KH36 anti radar and 250KG and 500KG guided PGMs. A single but similar weapon bay was fitted to the Berkut in summer of 07 this had two ejector racks and side by side placement.

 

- Static instability is reportedly 10% to 12% when compared to the 5% to 6% of SU27M/MKI and the neutral instability of basic SU27. Design aimed towards being more agile when supersonic than previous fighters.

 

source

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5450&sid=d98a083294f9c00eab1dbc805b0fa1ee&start=360

[gigz-on]

NEW! :thumbup:

 

Edited March 21, 2010 by gigz-on

[GGTharos]

Fans not hidden. Not so good for RCS.

[sobek]

Fans not hidden. Not so good for RCS.

 

My thoughts exactly. :huh:

[Pilotasso]

slacky security for such an important project for russia.

[Wilde]

Fans not hidden.

 

Looks more like a cover to me. Think it's part of the duct and the engine is behind it.

[FeoFUN]

Looks more like a cover to me. Think it's part of the duct and the engine is behind it.

Doesn't matter - anyway it's not an S-shaped duct, but 4th gen. solution, like Super Hornet's blades shield.

[Pilotasso]

Looks more like a cover to me. Think it's part of the duct and the engine is behind it.

 

 

Those are the inlet guide vanes an they are part of the engine.

[Vekkinho]

Yes blades are visible and it's dissapointing!!!

[sobek]

Well, it's still a prototype so save some dissapointment for the production aircraft ;)

[topol-m]

Well, it's still a prototype so save some dissapointment for the production aircraft ;)

 

Yep, I`ve heard something about putting some nets there :huh: We shall see the final look definitely should be different.

[tflash]

It looks like the fans, but it seems so far up front, I thought engine would start further aft, given size of the aircraft.

[Vekkinho]

Note that it's the #51 airframe and it's unpainted, so pic might be older than the one we saw few weeks ago with painted #51 taking off!

[Antartis]

I will do the lawyer Pak Fa :D

Yes, to me seems surprised fan.

 

But I can imagine some reasons...

 

• Maybe the Russians did not want to start sacrificing aerodynamic performance for sake of stealth.
  
• There are some photographs of the YF-23 (which they said that it is more stealth than the YF-22) showing very intense fans.
  
• You may use radiation-absorbing materials (RAM?) fans.
  
• As they told the children before, probably will change the shape of airway S-shaped aircraft production.
  

[GGTharos]

Maybe the Russians did not want to start sacrificing aerodynamic performance for sake of stealth.

 

Where does the F-22 sacrifice aerodynamic performance? Its beats the snot out of everything in everything.

 

There are some photographs of the YF-23 (which they said that it is more stealth than the YF-22) showing very intense fans.

 

Who said? ;)

 

You may use radiation-absorbing materials (RAM?) fans.

 

Not a chance. They'll use duct blockers like the superhornet.

 

 

• As they told the children before, probably will change the shape of airway S-shaped aircraft production.
  

 

Not necessarily true. That would be a huge fuselage change - a big undertaking.

[Pilotasso]

making blockers for such a straight duct will cut the engine thrust alot...

[Antartis]

Where does the F-22 sacrifice aerodynamic performance? Its beats the snot out of everything in everything.

 

You're right. I thought not. :doh:

 

Who said? ;)

If I remember correctly, the contest even the AFT lockheed martin admitted that the YF-23 has better stealth features

 

Not a chance. They'll use duct blockers like the superhornet.

How this works? First time I hear it ...

 

Not necessarily true. That would be a huge fuselage change - a big undertaking.

And in this you're right, it would be a big change draft.

[Esac_mirmidon]

It´s awesome how many engineers are here talking about a... uhmmm.......a "prototype".

 

Maybe Sukhoi could send you a work contract. They are always searching for good advisers.

 

Who knows, maybe with your help the PAK-FA finally could take the correct shape. Of course F-22 shape. This crazy russians trying to made a plane for they own. XDD.

[Antartis]

It´s awesome how many engineers are here talking about a... uhmmm.......a "prototype".

 

Maybe Sukhoi could send you a work contract. They are always searching for good advisers.

 

Who knows, maybe with your help the PAK-FA finally could take the correct shape. Of course F-22 shape. This crazy russians trying to made a plane for they own. XDD.

 

:megalol::D

[EtherealN]

Mirmidon, you'd be surprised if you knew how many engineers involved in military hardware projects are actually hanging out here. Most (though not all) of the people who express certain opinions have very good reason to do so. :P

 

This is not the Steam or Ubisoft forums. ;)

[Esac_mirmidon]

Yes , i know that.

 

But some humour sometimes is also good. Thanks Ethereal, you are doing a great work as a forum moderator, i always appreciate your posts here.

 

It´s only that i get tired about how topics diverge in a "cold war" like "russian stuff = crap, rest of the world stuff = great".

 

Russian engineers and aeronautical designers are very capable and i am sure that they are working using his resources, founds and imagination the best they can ( or they are let to do so ). Let them work and maybe at last we could see a new fighter with great capabilities to analyze with a real production line airframe.

 

I bet that most of the comments in this or other topics are not engineer home made, but who knows, maybe i´m only a fanboy from Steam or Ubi Forums.

 

Better said, if i divide my age by two i am two fanboys, .... it´s time to create my own fanboy forum ¡¡¡ Great ¡¡¡

[Vekkinho]

^^^^^^

There's an old Cold War joke on Star program where NASA engineers struggled for several years to create a ballpoint pen capable of writing in zero gravity conditions...Soviet engineers simply relied on graphite pencils and sharpener...