The T-50 (PAK-FA) Thread

[topol-m]

Flight tests on 29th of January, photos will be published short afterwards.

 

And no, it's not the T-50 on this pic ;)

 

http://www.lifenews.ru/news/10424

 

Just a reminder, so there isn`t people to announce another failure for Sukhoi, this is not an official Sukhoi statement. Don`t be surprised if there is no first flight on 29th at all.

[Pilotasso]

Looks like I was right about it being similar to a western plane. The article says its design is a Raptor look alike.

[Alfa]

In the aviation world...you will always find some planes from different countries that look like one another. For example:

 

Tupolev Tu-160 and the Rockwell B-1B

NASA X-29 and Sukhoi S-37

US Space Shuttle, Buran Space Shuttle

C-5 and An-124

 

I won't be surprised if the PAK-FA resembles the F-22.

 

I understand what you are saying although I don't quite see the point concerning the X-29/S-37(besides forward swept wings) or C-5/An-124(except size).

 

But I was refering to the comments regarding the F-35B versus Yak-141 - Lockeed Martin actually paid Yakelovlev to revive R&D on the Yak-141 prototypes and later aquired all their R&D material for the F-35B development.

 

So although the F-35B isn't a "copy" of the Yak-141, it is nevertheless more than just "inspired" by it - interestingly Yakovlev actually had design plans for a stealth version("Yak-43") that resembled the F-35B even more than the Yak-141 :) .

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

Looks like I was right about it being similar to a western plane. The article says its design is a Raptor look alike.

Incredible intuition! How else could it look like?

[Boberro]

Maybe that :D

 

[concrete]

.... interestingly Yakovlev actually had design plans for a stealth version("Yak-43") ...

 

maybe offtopic, but can you tell same more about this? link? picture? thanks!

[Alfa]

maybe offtopic, but can you tell same more about this? link? picture? thanks!

 

Not much I am afraid - apparently when the Yak-141(flight demonstrator designation - actual service designation would have been Yak-41) development was suspended and no longer figured in the plans for the Russian navy, Yakovlev contemplated a revised design with stealth features for the airforce instead.

 

But since the Russian MoD wasn't interested, the design never went further than the drawing board, so there are no actual pictures of it - I saw some concept drawings on the web once and you can probably still find them if you search for "Yak-43".....I don't know how official they were though.

 

They(Yakovlev) then started looking for foreign partners to help fund further development of the concept and it was this effort that led to the coorporation with Lockheed Martin.

[LupinYonder]

I find it a little irritating how often different states and development programs are accused of copying. I'm sure a certain amount of industrial espionage goes on but if two parties are working on the same problem ( I.E. stealth multi-role fights, or space shuttle ) then the results are bound to be similar.

[Pilotasso]

Incredible intuition! How else could it look like?

 

You clearly missed the discussion earlier on this thread. :P

 

I find it a little irritating how often different states and development programs are accused of copying. I'm sure a certain amount of industrial espionage goes on but if two parties are working on the same problem ( I.E. stealth multi-role fights, or space shuttle ) then the results are bound to be similar.

 

Could have been an Yf-23 Look a like intead of the 22. The 23 had an even stealthier shape. I would expext the russians to choose it over the 22 instead.

Edited January 26, 2010 by Pilotasso

[Maximus_G]

PAK-FA - first spy photo!

 

Alright i've found what it is. It's a renderwork by Josef Gatial, an artist working on sci-fi plane projects. Check his images here. A part of his several-years old "PAK FA" work on KNAAPO front page too.

And what gigz-on had shown us - that's Myasischev M-25 shock wave-killer plane project.

 

Keeping it ONtopic - check news Thursday, guys. //Wednesday for western hemisphere, maybe.

Edited January 26, 2010 by Maximus_G

[topol-m]

According to the sukhoi forum a Ту-134А-3М with VIPs departed from Moscow and landed yesterday in Komsomolsk on Amur where it is expected the PAK-FA to perform its first flight today or tomorrow. Another unofficial source claims the main constructor of OKB Sukhoi - M. A. Pogosian is also there. If that`s true we can have the first photos in a matter of hours people, if the meteorological conditions are good of course.

Edited January 27, 2010 by topol-m

[Joe Kurr]

Here's the 3-day weather forecast for Komsomolsk on Amur from weather-forecast.com:

 

Komsomolsk-Na-Amure 1 – 3 Day Weather Summary: A dusting of new snow, Extremely cold (max -17°C on Thu afternoon, min -26°C on Fri morning), Wind will be generally light

[Vekkinho]

According to the sukhoi forum a Ту-134А-3М with VIP persons departed from Moscow and landed yesterday in Komsomolsk on Amur where it is expected the PAK-FA to perform its first flight today or tomorrow. Another info claims the main constructor of OKB Sukhoi - M. A. Pogosian is also there. If that`s true we can have the first photos in a matter of hours people, if the meteorological conditions are good of course.

 

M.A.Pogosyan doesn't work with Sukhoi, he jumped ship and is now with MiG.

 

 

On the stealth side: I see Pilotasso saying that YF-23 had more stealthy appearance than YF-22 had or Raptor has today. I don't think so, one of the reasons US MoD chose F-22 over F-23 was smaller RCS. I agree that YF-23 looks better than a F-22 but it's not the looks that contribute to stealth!

[topol-m]

M.A.Pogosyan doesn't work with Sukhoi, he jumped ship and is now with MiG.

 

:doh: And I thought at least on the Sukhoi forums they`d know more...

 

On the stealth side: I see Pilotasso saying that YF-23 had more stealthy appearance than YF-22 had or Raptor has today. I don't think so, one of the reasons US MoD chose F-22 over F-23 was smaller RCS. I agree that YF-23 looks better than a F-22 but it's not the looks that contribute to stealth!

 

There is a controversial info about that. From several aspects if we compare YF-22 and YF-23 the Black Widow should have smaller RCS. The the intakes, the engines position and the nozzles of YF-23 are specially designed for minimum RCS and IR signature. The inlet ducts leading to the engines curve in two dimensions to shield the faces of the compressors from radar emitters coming from the forward direction. The engines exhaust trenches position and design (covered with heat-resistant material) significantly reduce the IR signature. The F-22 has been much improved over YF-22, but should the YF-23 had been chosen no doubt the serial production Black Widow would have been even stealthier than its YF prototype.

[Vault]

Should have a smaller RCS? got to love how people think their eyes are great at reading a prototypes RCS performance, almost makes Lockheed's multi million dollar test stands in the desert seem almost pointless in using for RCS figures...

Edited January 27, 2010 by Vault

[GGTharos]

No, it wouldn't have been. The YF-23 incorporated 'high risk' technologies that were later incorporated into the production F-22 :) This includes stealth design.

 

but should the YF-23 had been chosen no doubt the serial production Black Widow would have been even stealthier than its YF prototype.

[Vault]

No, it wouldn't have been. The YF-23 incorporated 'high risk' technologies that were later incorporated into the production F-22 :) This includes stealth design.

 

Are you saying stealth design is a high risk technology?.

[sniffer]

:doh: And I thought at least on the Sukhoi forums they`d know more...

Even Sukhoi don't know ;)

 

Sukhoi Company (JSC)

Sukhoi Design Bureau

 

In two official places still Pogosyan (two year update?)

[topol-m]

No, it wouldn't have been. The YF-23 incorporated 'high risk' technologies that were later incorporated into the production F-22 :) This includes stealth design.

 

I`m not sure about the materials used in YF-22 and YF-23, but check out how the shape has changed from the YF-22 to F-22. We should expect the same for YF-23. Also the technology from 80s and 90s evolved, so what F-22 gets now in terms of materials, electronics, radar absorbing paints I guess, ECM/ECCM, etc. would have been incorporated in F-23 as well.

 

Even Sukhoi don't know ;)

 

Sukhoi Company (JSC)

Sukhoi Design Bureau

 

In two official places still Pogosyan (two year update?)

 

Holy ....! :D

[Vekkinho]

Even Sukhoi don't know ;)

 

Sukhoi Company (JSC)

Sukhoi Design Bureau

 

In two official places still Pogosyan (two year update?)

 

AFAIK this merge of Sukhoi, MiG and other aircraft industries into UABC (‘Unified Aircraft-Building Corporation) might have caused this fact that everybody's everywhere these days ;)

[topol-m]

Hahaha check this out just saw it in the russian part of the forums: http://blog.paran.com/blog/detail/postBoard.kth?pmcId=blue5191&blogDataId=33394314 :megalol:

 

As you can already guess it`s not PAK-FA like the koreans think, but Mitsubishi ATD-X. :P

[Vekkinho]

Yes Topol-M but you must admit that nose and the canopy of ATD-X slightly look like Su-30 so...

[GGTharos]

The materials were for the most part the high-risk issue. The YF-23 used a lot more composites which were not proven, and potentially made up for a lot of its stealth and weight reductions on one hand.

The F-22 acquired a slightly more 'diamond' shape, which -can- aid in stealth, but I would guess the main concern there had more to do with actual flight performance (in particular supersonic flight performance) as well possibly means of fitting in additional hardware.

 

The YF-23 had a major payload strike against it as well which was, AFAIK, unfixable given its original configuration.

 

I`m not sure about the materials used in YF-22 and YF-23, but check out how the shape has changed from the YF-22 to F-22. We should expect the same for YF-23. Also the technology from 80s and 90s evolved, so what F-22 gets now in terms of materials, electronics, radar absorbing paints I guess, ECM/ECCM, etc. would have been incorporated in F-23 as well.

[Pilotasso]

GG, neither your or topols affirmations contradict themselves, both could be true.

 

I.e. while the F-22 incorporated YF-23 risky tech, a developed 23 could probably get the RCS advantage had development been awarded to the balck widow, because it has better stealth shape to beggin with. Even if it was not the russians could still use it for the PAK FA. Who knows after some espionage JOB at the time.

[Shaman]

Apparently yesterday, another high speed run was made where the aircraft managed to rise its nose landing gear from the ground before deploying the brake chute. This time photographers were allowed so we might see some pictures soon.

 

Someone also made a brief description of the plane as "when you look at it from far away, it looks a bit ridiculous, with its tail raised high and the nose pointing down. Its completely flat and only rises a bit around the cockpit area. The vertical stabilizers are clean, angled trapezoids and complete(I understood this part as the vertical stabilizers and rudder beeing a single element, like the F-117). When you are not looking at it from the front or the side but a 3/4 view, it gives an odd feeling. Its hard to describe with words"

 

 

 

And according to some article, apparently the name will be Su-50.

 

Edited 2010-01-23 09:22:52

It's post by Acheron from AIRLINERS.NET military forums.