NOLA Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Ahh, so that helps explain it. Thanks for the info NOLA. :) Also, i completely forgot about it :doh:, but patent itself is saying exactly what i was talking about: Технический результат, на достижение которого направлено изобретение, заключается в снижении величины РЛ-заметности самолета до средней величины порядка 0,1-1 м2.Technical result, The aim of the invention is to reduce the magnitude of radar visibility of the aircraft to an average of about 0.1-1 m 2http://www.fips.ru/cdfi/fips.dll/ru?ty=29&docid=2502643 Some recent pics: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karambiatos Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 is it just me or has the HUD been changed? A 1000 flights, a 1000 crashes, perfect record. =&arrFilter_pf[gameversion]=&arrFilter_pf[filelang]=&arrFilter_pf[aircraft]=&arrFilter_DATE_CREATE_1_DAYS_TO_BACK=&sort_by_order=TIMESTAMP_X_DESC"] Check out my random mods and things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAM77 Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Sigh... All this time has passed and it seems there is no updated engine or vectored exhaust outlets???? Is this it???? Intel i5 7600K @ 4.2GHz | 32GB G.Skill Trident RGB DDR4 @ 3200MHz | MSI RTX 4060 Gaming X 8G | WD Black NVMe 2TB | Sound Blaster Audigy RX | MSI Z270 Gaming M3 | Corsair H80i v2 | Corsair RM750x | Thrustmaster T.16000M FCS Flight Pack | TrackIR 5 | Windows 10 Home 64-bit | Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ФрогФут Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Sigh... All this time has passed and it seems there is no updated engine or vectored exhaust outlets???? Is this it???? Vectored thrust is there right from the beginning. It can be clearly seen on startup videos. Stage 2 engine will be fitted after 2020. "Я ошеломлён, но думаю об этом другими словами", - некий гражданин Ноет котик, ноет кротик, Ноет в небе самолетик, Ноют клумбы и кусты - Ноют все. Поной и ты. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAM77 Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 2020!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What are they fitting scramjets as well :P 1 Intel i5 7600K @ 4.2GHz | 32GB G.Skill Trident RGB DDR4 @ 3200MHz | MSI RTX 4060 Gaming X 8G | WD Black NVMe 2TB | Sound Blaster Audigy RX | MSI Z270 Gaming M3 | Corsair H80i v2 | Corsair RM750x | Thrustmaster T.16000M FCS Flight Pack | TrackIR 5 | Windows 10 Home 64-bit | Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOLA Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 is it just me or has the HUD been changed? It is just you. Sigh... All this time has passed and it seems there is no updated engine or vectored exhaust outlets???? Is this it???? What? It has been with TVC all the time, since first prototype. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ФрогФут Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 2020!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What are they fitting scramjets as well :P Why don't you like the stage 1 engines? "Я ошеломлён, но думаю об этом другими словами", - некий гражданин Ноет котик, ноет кротик, Ноет в небе самолетик, Ноют клумбы и кусты - Ноют все. Поной и ты. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weta43 Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 (edited) I had wondered when they would get to them as well - Not out of any performance concerns - I have no idea how they perform relative to the desired final state, but the current engines 'look' like they're placeholders. It may be that the thought is no-one will get to point a radar at the tail of a T-50, and that if they do, at that point manoeuvrability trumps stealth, still... All the area around the tail looks like it's been designed with stealth in mind - chines on the rear extension of the body etc., then there's two unreformed engines grafted on. It's almost like someone's drawn a line on the design around them and said "we'll do that later". Compare the treatment of the valley between the final engines on the F-35 and that on the current T-50 : At that angle, half the aircraft's return must be coming from the section of the body that looks like it was borrowed from an Su-35 Edited January 25, 2014 by Weta43 Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAM77 Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 =4c= Hajduk Veljko No, it is not a "scramjets", it is an engine that nation of Australia can not produce. Dont really care about losing reps but you got so upset over my joke I had to pass it around:thumbup: Dude to be honest you're spot on I am the last person to argue that Australia can produce anything. My comment in relation to the engines was merely to show my amazement at the length of time thats all. I could return the favour but........ are you really worth it :P Intel i5 7600K @ 4.2GHz | 32GB G.Skill Trident RGB DDR4 @ 3200MHz | MSI RTX 4060 Gaming X 8G | WD Black NVMe 2TB | Sound Blaster Audigy RX | MSI Z270 Gaming M3 | Corsair H80i v2 | Corsair RM750x | Thrustmaster T.16000M FCS Flight Pack | TrackIR 5 | Windows 10 Home 64-bit | Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAM77 Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Why don't you like the stage 1 engines? I was expecting them to look a bit sexier not old school as they are now. Dont get me wrong function over form anyday. Just looks a bit daggy :) My bad in regards to thrust vectoring being there since the beginning was getting confused with the Raptor and expecting to see the Russian equivalent by now. "Function over form" Intel i5 7600K @ 4.2GHz | 32GB G.Skill Trident RGB DDR4 @ 3200MHz | MSI RTX 4060 Gaming X 8G | WD Black NVMe 2TB | Sound Blaster Audigy RX | MSI Z270 Gaming M3 | Corsair H80i v2 | Corsair RM750x | Thrustmaster T.16000M FCS Flight Pack | TrackIR 5 | Windows 10 Home 64-bit | Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ФрогФут Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 I'd suggest to wait for the final look of the aircraft. They are said to look much different from what they looke like now (from 50-7 or something like that). "Я ошеломлён, но думаю об этом другими словами", - некий гражданин Ноет котик, ноет кротик, Ноет в небе самолетик, Ноют клумбы и кусты - Ноют все. Поной и ты. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAM77 Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 Cant wait to see Its been like a big tease to see what the final exhaust layout will look like Intel i5 7600K @ 4.2GHz | 32GB G.Skill Trident RGB DDR4 @ 3200MHz | MSI RTX 4060 Gaming X 8G | WD Black NVMe 2TB | Sound Blaster Audigy RX | MSI Z270 Gaming M3 | Corsair H80i v2 | Corsair RM750x | Thrustmaster T.16000M FCS Flight Pack | TrackIR 5 | Windows 10 Home 64-bit | Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOLA Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 I'd suggest to wait for the final look of the aircraft. They are said to look much different from what they looke like now (from 50-7 or something like that). -7 will be static frame. Cant wait to see Its been like a big tease to see what the final exhaust layout will look like I wouldn't hold the breath. It is very possible stage two will use same round exhaust, possibly with tooths at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilotasso Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 They changed the aircrafts manufacturing jig. Its going to be a considerable change, at least structurally. [sigpic]http://forums.eagle.ru/signaturepics/sigpic4448_29.gif[/sigpic] My PC specs below:Case: Corsair 400C PSU: SEASONIC SS-760XP2 760W Platinum CPU: AMD RYZEN 3900X (12C/24T) RAM: 32 GB 4266Mhz (two 2x8 kits) of trident Z RGB @3600Mhz CL 14 CR=1T MOBO: ASUS CROSSHAIR HERO VI AM4 GFX: GTX 1080Ti MSI Gaming X Cooler: NXZT Kraken X62 280mm AIO Storage: Samsung 960 EVO 1TB M.2+6GB WD 6Gb red HOTAS: Thrustmaster Warthog + CH pro pedals Monitor: Gigabyte AORUS AD27QD Freesync HDR400 1440P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ФрогФут Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 -7 will be static frame. -6-1 or -6-2 will be for static, as far as i know. http://www.armstass.su/?page=article&aid=124862&cid=24 Сборка шестого самолета T-50-6-1 находится в стадии завершения, еще три самолета (T-50-6-2, T-50-7 and T-50-8) строятся. Один из самолетов T-50-6 предназначен для проведения статических испытаний, а другой - для летных испытаний. Manufacturing of the T-50-6-1 aircraft is at the final stage, three more aircraft (T-50-6-2, T-50-7 and T-50-8) are in production. On of the T-50-6 aircraft is assigned for static tests, the other one - flight tests. "Я ошеломлён, но думаю об этом другими словами", - некий гражданин Ноет котик, ноет кротик, Ноет в небе самолетик, Ноют клумбы и кусты - Ноют все. Поной и ты. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOLA Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 No, that info is completely wrong. Т-50-7 статика, почему идет через ЛИС непонятно. 6-2 судя по тем документам, что приходят к нам будет близка к базовой комплектации. 7- статика, остальные все летные. http://www.aviaport.ru/conferences/users/21479/posts/8.html What you posted is translation of recent Butowski article, who is very accurate and knowledgeable 99% of the time. In that article he had several mistakes tho, including the part you quoted. I have a feeling to certain degree he based that part on this: http://vif2ne.ru/nvk/forum/archive/2524/2524609.htm Which was fishy and with mistakes when it came out, and shortly afterwards proved to be utterly and completely wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vekkinho Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 (edited) It's a common practice in russian or ex Soviet design bueraus. During design of the 3rd and 4th gen fighters majority of focus was given to streamlining the frontal surfaces in order of achieving best possible aerodynamics with least drag. Trailing parts of the fuselage and empennage was least concern with jets like MiG-21, MiG-25, MiG-23, -29 and Sukhoi Flanker derivatives. I have the same "fear" that it seems to be the case here as well. T-50-1 kinda appeared out of nowhere, now the fuselage and general shape of PAK FA is here but looks to me that engine development lags a lot... I have no doubts on performance of current engines, rememeber supercruise was possible with most of the engines we see on 4th gen fighters but wasn't granted cause of the serious reduction in TBO figures. However, installing a newer engine (we're talking 2020) which is probably more powerful that current one on to by then a decade old airframes/techology is a funny call. I guess there are more reasons behind it-the most likely one is funding the research. Edited January 26, 2014 by Vekkinho [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobek Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 However, installing a newer engine (we're talking 2020) which is probably more powerful that current one on to by then a decade old airframes/techology is a funny call. LOLWUT? Ten year old airframe? So by your logic, the Raptor is now 20 years old? Good, fast, cheap. Choose any two. Come let's eat grandpa! Use punctuation, save lives! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilotasso Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 (edited) Its a question of engine and duct design rather than pure maximum thrust. Some western planes can cruise supersonically, like the Gripen NG and the F-16 Block 60 (allegedly), but that's more of a consequence of engine designs improvements rather than deliberate attempt to make them supercruise (the story behind Eurofighter is slightly different though). This is where Russia stands now. At this time they are just trying to design an engine to cope with supersonic cruise, something they never tried before. None of their previous AL-31 made their planes cruise supersonically. Its something new entirely and its understandable that they will take some time. I never considered the engine development to be late. Its just that 2016 entry to service date was overly optimistic assumption to take at first. im not surprised. Edited January 26, 2014 by Pilotasso [sigpic]http://forums.eagle.ru/signaturepics/sigpic4448_29.gif[/sigpic] My PC specs below:Case: Corsair 400C PSU: SEASONIC SS-760XP2 760W Platinum CPU: AMD RYZEN 3900X (12C/24T) RAM: 32 GB 4266Mhz (two 2x8 kits) of trident Z RGB @3600Mhz CL 14 CR=1T MOBO: ASUS CROSSHAIR HERO VI AM4 GFX: GTX 1080Ti MSI Gaming X Cooler: NXZT Kraken X62 280mm AIO Storage: Samsung 960 EVO 1TB M.2+6GB WD 6Gb red HOTAS: Thrustmaster Warthog + CH pro pedals Monitor: Gigabyte AORUS AD27QD Freesync HDR400 1440P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ФрогФут Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 This is where Russia stands now. At this time they are just trying to design an engine to cope with supersonic cruise, something they never tried before. None of their previous AL-31 made their planes cruise supersonically. Its something new entirely and its understandable that they will take some time. I never considered the engine development to be late. Its just that 2016 entry to service date was overly optimistic assumption to take at first. im not surprised. Cruise supersonically without afterburner.;) As MiG-31 cruises M = 2.35, but this mode requires AB, but it's still his cruise mode. And Su-35 already made at least M = 1.1 without AB. "Я ошеломлён, но думаю об этом другими словами", - некий гражданин Ноет котик, ноет кротик, Ноет в небе самолетик, Ноют клумбы и кусты - Ноют все. Поной и ты. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vekkinho Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 And Su-35 already made at least M = 1.1 without AB. As I said, many 4th Gen fighter engines are capable of supercruise without AB, however these are table test figures and are only slightly > M1.0. Supercruise of a F-22 is in the neighbourhood of M1.4 at 35.000ft. Since there's no similar engine in rest of the world one has to develop it and that's the main 2020 reason. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vekkinho Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 LOLWUT? Ten year old airframe? So by your logic, the Raptor is now 20 years old? Even older if you consider TES Block 1 airframes from 1991. First Blk10 airframe produced for use with USAF dates from 1999 but delivered in Oct 2002. So it's a 12/15 YO airframe, depends on what you take into account. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobek Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 First Blk10 airframe produced for use with USAF dates from 1999 but delivered in Oct 2002. So it's a 12/15 YO airframe, depends on what you take into account. But then by your own admission, the T-50 will be a max of 4 years old in 2020. Good, fast, cheap. Choose any two. Come let's eat grandpa! Use punctuation, save lives! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 Flying hours. First Blk10 airframe produced for use with USAF dates from 1999 but delivered in Oct 2002. So it's a 12/15 YO airframe, depends on what you take into account. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 More like in the neighborhood of >M1.7 :) Supercruise of a F-22 is in the neighbourhood of M1.4 at 35.000ft. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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