MiG-23/7

[upyr1]

No matter what happens with the mess with Rambam, I think we should the MIG-23 and 27. 

I don't care what version but if possible I'd love to see them as a twofer pack if that's not possible that would be fine as well. Either way it would be awesome for Afghanistan 

[F-2]

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/nasic_nasic-history-the-acquisition-of-a-soviet-activity-6772508803515654144-nwBb?trk=public_profile_like_view
 

 

Interested in asking around about the paperwork that this one came with.

[upyr1]

1 hour ago, F-2 said:

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/nasic_nasic-history-the-acquisition-of-a-soviet-activity-6772508803515654144-nwBb?trk=public_profile_like_view
 

 

Interested in asking around about the paperwork that this one came with.

cool find

[Bob_Petuss]

That's right, we need an opponent for the F-4

[Gunfreak]

I just want a better AI model for the mig23, 27 and su17/22

[Swan37]

but somebody want it as FF module and better to see it as a flyable units 

[upyr1]

19 hours ago, Bob_Petuss said:

That's right, we need an opponent for the F-4

I know some people will say the MiG-21 was the more iconic match up, though the Flogger and Phantom would be a good BVR show down. I'd also state a late cold war Germany map without or Afghanistan without the flogger is just wrong.

 

14 hours ago, Swan37 said:

but somebody want it as FF module and better to see it as a flyable units 

The only way I can see getting a good multiplayer lineup is with more Cold War modules. 

[Gunfreak]

16 hours ago, Swan37 said:

but somebody want it as FF module and better to see it as a flyable units 

But that's not gonna happen for another 5 years(or never) unless Razbam does something.

So I would rather have a high quality 3d model of the MiG23, MiG25 and Su22. This year, then wait for a FF flying module that might never come.

I assume one of the reasons ED never bothered making better 3d models of those as because someone was making a FF module (rumours of Su22 has been around for years) 

Now none of this seem to happen. So I would like better quality 3d models of the AI units. Because they look so bad. I don't even use them. And the MiG21 has to fight as a primary jet for the soviet Union until the MiG29 and Su27 show up in decent numbers around the mid 80s.

[upyr1]

10 hours ago, Gunfreak said:

But that's not gonna happen for another 5 years(or never) unless Razbam does something.

are you saying you don't want Eagle and Razbam to settle things? If you aren't saying that join the flogger request 

[Gunfreak]

8 hours ago, upyr1 said:

are you saying you don't want Eagle and Razbam to settle things? If you aren't saying that join the flogger request 

Why are you asking that?

My wishes are only that the current terrible AI 3d models get improved. If the razbam FF gets released then that's fine. If not. I don't want to wait 5 years(or forever) to see the 23, 25 and 22 improved. Not a very hard concept to understand?

Obviously it takes far less time to makeca decent quality 3r model then a FF module. And I'm sure one of the reasons ED hasn't bothered improving the 3d model is that they are expecting someone to make a FF module of the aircraft. Since now it doesn't look like we'll get a FF 23 anytime soon. They should make improved 3d modes for the mig 23, 25 and Su22. As they are sorely messing from cold war action.

[upyr1]

2 hours ago, Gunfreak said:

Why are you asking that?

My wishes are only that the current terrible AI 3d models get improved. If the razbam FF gets released then that's fine. If not. I don't want to wait 5 years(or forever) to see the 23, 25 and 22 improved. Not a very hard concept to understand?

It's just the fact that you keep being a bit of a downer- 

2 hours ago, Gunfreak said:

Obviously it takes far less time to make decent quality 3r model then a FF module. And I'm sure one of the reasons ED hasn't bothered improving the 3d model is that they are expecting someone to make a FF module of the aircraft. Since now it doesn't look like we'll get a FF 23 anytime soon. They should make improved 3d modes for the mig 23, 25 and Su22. As they are sorely messing from cold war action.

If the fastest way to get the Flogger is a resolution with Razbam then that should be implied as part of the wish. Heck even a community module might be possible

[Bob_Petuss]

On 09.04.2025 at 14:30, upyr1 said:

Единственный способ, которым я вижу возможность создать хороший многопользовательский состав, — это добавить больше модулей Холодной войны.

[Dr_Pavelheer]

Not to nitpick but 23 and 27 are basically completely different aircraft, there would be next to zero commonality as far as creation of DCS module goes

[Gunfreak]

4 hours ago, upyr1 said:

It's just the fact that you keep being a bit of a downer- 

If the fastest way to get the Flogger is a resolution with Razbam then that should be implied as part of the wish. Heck even a community module might be possible

I'm not gonna buy anything from Razbam. For all we know 3 months after the 23 is relased, they'll do hissy fit and then it won't be supported like the F15E.

I would much rather not rely on Razbam for any improvement  to DCS. 

The Razbam ED kerfuffle might be solved in a month, a year or never. 

DCS needs improved 3d models for MiG23, 25 and Su22 2 years ago.

I would much rather ED make those models now. Then wait for something that might never happen. The AI model is en MLD, so ED can make an improvement MLD 3d model, Razbam isn't making the MLD.  So at worst we get 2 high quality 3d models of a mig23 instead of none. 

Only ED and Razbam have any idea of this is going to end well, and even they seemed lost at times.

Having Core 3d model improvements held up because mabye, maybe not Razbam and ED become friends again isn't a great place to be.

[Silver_Dragon]

4 minutes ago, Gunfreak said:

DCS needs improved 3d models for MiG23, 25 and Su22 2 years ago.

ED has improve your old LOMAC/FC models, but actualy we dont know with 3D models has actualy working.

[upyr1]

6 minutes ago, Gunfreak said:

I'm not gonna buy anything from Razbam. For all we know 3 months after the 23 is relased, they'll do hissy fit and then it won't be supported like the F15E.

I would much rather not rely on Razbam for any improvement  to DCS. 

The Razbam ED kerfuffle might be solved in a month, a year or never. 

DCS needs improved 3d models for MiG23, 25 and Su22 2 years ago.

I would much rather ED make those models now. Then wait for something that might never happen. The AI model is en MLD, so ED can make an improvement MLD 3d model, Razbam isn't making the MLD.  So at worst we get 2 high quality 3d models of a mig23 instead of none. 

Only ED and Razbam have any idea of this is going to end well, and even they seemed lost at times.

Having Core 3d model improvements held up because mabye, maybe not Razbam and ED become friends again isn't a great place to be.

If you don't want to buy anything Razbam that is your choice I don't care who does the floggers. The improved models are really a different subject.

2 hours ago, Dr_Pavelheer said:

Not to nitpick but 23 and 27 are basically completely different aircraft, there would be next to zero commonality as far as creation of DCS module goes

I know but both would be awesome 

[Dr_Pavelheer]

Oh, they definitely would. Especially Mig-27 is desperately needed, or at least something that fills broadly similar gap like Su-24 or Su-22

[bies]

Razbam's MLA variant was a good choice.

[upyr1]

3 hours ago, Dr_Pavelheer said:

Oh, they definitely would. Especially Mig-27 is desperately needed, or at least something that fills broadly similar gap like Su-24 or Su-22

There are two possible fitters in the works. If I would love an early model su-24. 

1 hour ago, bies said:

Razbam's MLA variant was a good choice.

the mla would be awesome. 

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

19 hours ago, Gunfreak said:

DCS needs improved 3d models for MiG23, 25 and Su22 2 years ago.

I would much rather ED make those models now. Then wait for something that might never happen.

We will get a full-fidelity MiG-23 regardless of who makes it: people seem to forget that both the -23 and -27 were on ED's "do not touch these"-list they gave to 3rd parties for a good while, before RAZBAM announced their MiG-23, as ED wanted to do both themselves.

In any case, we NEED a FF MiG-23 since the upcoming GFM will use data from full-fidelity flight models, and the MiG-23 is such a common adversary. That's also something that people seem to forget: you can't have GFM for a particular AI aircraft unless it has a full-fidelity counterpart (unless ED changed their stance on that without telling us).

12 hours ago, upyr1 said:

the mla would be awesome.

That's the tragedy of it all: apparently the MLA was about to release when that mess came to the public's attention...

[Swan37]

nice joke about RB`s flogger........

 

[Dr_Pavelheer]

@Raven (Elysian Angel) The issue is RB's Mig 23 was already quite advanced, if anyone else were to decide to tackle it tomorrow we'd be 5+ years away from release which means some of us might not be around to see it.

Also there were some fairly unique opportunities there, one of the devs at RB used to be a maintenance guy, fixed Floggers for a living and has a ton of books and stuff on the thing. There also was Galinette, who not only is one of two people with proven track record of great radar modelling implementation in DCS that isn't FC3 based but also has experience with implementing GCI link system in the game, Mirage 2kC has TAF and backend would be largely reusable

[upyr1]

7 hours ago, Raven (Elysian Angel) said:

That's the tragedy of it all: apparently the MLA was about to release when that mess came to the public's attention...

Which is why I say settling the dispute is part of the request. I don't know the full details of the dispute and frankly I don't care i just want a settlement and Razbam modules 

25 minutes ago, Dr_Pavelheer said:

@Raven (Elysian Angel) The issue is RB's Mig 23 was already quite advanced, if anyone else were to decide to tackle it tomorrow we'd be 5+ years away from release which means some of us might not be around to see it.

Also there were some fairly unique opportunities there, one of the devs at RB used to be a maintenance guy, fixed Floggers for a living and has a ton of books and stuff on the thing. There also was Galinette, who not only is one of two people with proven track record of great radar modelling implementation in DCS that isn't FC3 based but also has experience with implementing GCI link system in the game, Mirage 2kC has TAF and backend would be largely reusable

5 years is probably optimistic 

[Dragon1-1]

7 hours ago, Raven (Elysian Angel) said:

That's the tragedy of it all: apparently the MLA was about to release when that mess came to the public's attention...

I think that's a stretch. I don't remember it ever looking like "about to release". Very advanced, yes, but hardly in the final phase. We haven't seen the radar, or really anything showing that it was ever actually flyable.

[upyr1]

20 hours ago, Dragon1-1 said:

I think that's a stretch. I don't remember it ever looking like "about to release". Very advanced, yes, but hardly in the final phase. We haven't seen the radar, or really anything showing that it was ever actually flyable.

I'm not sure how close they actually were but as I have said before part of this thread is a strong plea and desire to see Razbam and EAgle to patch things up.