DCS: MiG-29A Fulcrum pre-purchase

[Schmidtfire]

1 hour ago, huchanronaa said:

There is a price to pay for this! Pushing out the most original, with a retro mechanical clock-style dashboard MIG-29A version will ultimately lead to poor sales due to lack of novelty and poor performance.

Poor performance compared to what? I'm sure it will hold it's own against most Cold War aircraft currently in DCS.

[draconus]

2 hours ago, huchanronaa said:

After all, customers are not fools

No, they're not. They know exactly what they buy into and that is long awaited first 4th gen full fidelity redfor fighter in DCS. Looks like it'll be a huge success. They made what they could make. If you're not satisfied, too bad.

[TotenDead]

2 часа назад, Dragon1-1 сказал:

While BVR duels can be fun, IMO DCS would benefit from more Fox 1 oriented servers, in any case.

It could benefit from those if there were suitable HiFi 4th gen planes for that era. Atm we only have the F-14. And vanishing the M2000, of course. That's pretty much it

1 час назад, draconus сказал:

They know exactly what they buy into and that is long awaited first 4th gen full fidelity redfor fighter in DCS. Looks like it'll be a huge success. 

You speak so confident as if you have statistics instead of wishes

[Dragon1-1]

The Hornet can cosplay an older variant pretty well, though. Just make it only carry Sparrows and older Sidewinders. In that configuration it should be a pretty good match for the MiG-29.

We absolutely need more period-correct aircraft, though. Actual old-style Hornet, maybe the early F-15A, and the F-16A, though with no Sparrows it'd be at a disadvantage against a MiG-29.

[Nebula_Creates]

How did your team go about doing the laser scanning and photogrametry of the cockpit? Did you reference a museum aircraft? I'm really curious about how that's done technique wise and what tools were required.

[BIGNEWY]

4 minutes ago, Nebula_Creates said:

How did your team go about doing the laser scanning and photogrametry of the cockpit? Did you reference a museum aircraft? I'm really curious about how that's done technique wise and what tools were required.

No promises, but I will try to get the team to approve some information to share with images from the photogrammetry sessions , its been great seeing it progress internally. 

[Nebula_Creates]

Just now, BIGNEWY said:

No promises, but I will try to get the team to approve some information to share with images from the photogrammetry sessions , its been great seeing it progress internally. 

Thanks! I didn't expect a response at all. I'm fascinated to learn if you get the approval!

[MA_VMF]

5 часов назад, Dragon1-1 сказал:

It's also the most produced, and is still being used both in Russia and in several NATO countries.

The most produced is 9-13, not 9-12. And Russia no longer uses 9-12 and 9-13

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

2 hours ago, Dragon1-1 said:

The Hornet can cosplay an older variant pretty well, though.

Well, you can't really turn off data-link, can you? To be fair I haven't tested the extent to which "historic filter" removes all that modern nonsense, but even if it worked perfectly then you'd still have an APG-73 instead of -65. You'd have none of the older TGPs, and you'd still be able to ask the ground crew to equip the JHMCS, no? Also, you'd still have the more powerful engines...

Note to self: I should really test that at some point...

Edited May 17 by Raven (Elysian Angel)
added engines

[Dragon1-1]

1 hour ago, MA_VMF said:

The most produced is 9-13, not 9-12. And Russia no longer uses 9-12 and 9-13

It does, Russia has more MiG-29s in service (over 200) than all modified variants' production runs added together. Some of them were upgraded to SMT spec, but not all.

The only difference between 9.13 and 9.12 is the Gardenia jammer and additional fuel. As far as Gardenia goes, it seems there's public info available on its operating modes. It'd be cool to have, but 9.12 is the prettier one.  

[huchanronaa]

14小时前，Dragon1-1说：

Wrong. This version is nearly the same as the original Soviet version, with the only difference being IFF and some details in the radar. The worst-performing version is the 9.12B, for non-WP countries. 

It's also the most produced, and is still being used both in Russia and in several NATO countries. MiG-29S was only produced in small numbers before the USSR collapsed, while the biggest MiG-29M operator is Egypt, with 40 or so aircraft. Russia has 10. Neither of those models would be appropriate for a wide variety of scenarios that the A model will bring.

Yes, it's a Cold War jet, lacking some capabilities that Western jets bring, notably Fox 3s. While BVR duels can be fun, IMO DCS would benefit from more Fox 1 oriented servers, in any case.

The later improved versions of Mig-29 are quite different from the original version, and can even launch air-to-ground missiles. However, E.D. already has the FC4 version of Mig-29A 3D model, so in order to save development costs, they continued to use it when developing the high-fidelity version of Mig-29, because if they want to develop an improved version of Mig-29M or Mig-29S, it is the same as developing a new aircraft. However, for customers, what they want to play most is the improved version of Mig-29S or MIG29M, not the MIG-29A that has been played in DCS FC3 FC4

Please refer to Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikoyan_MiG-29  and  

"https://sirviper.com/index.php?page=fighters/mig-29/mig-29s

The MiG-29 was widely exported in downgraded versions, known as MiG-29 9-12A for Warsaw Pact and MiG-29 9-12B for non-Warsaw Pact nations,^[12] with less capable avionics and no capability for delivering nuclear weapons.

In the 1980s, Mikoyan developed the improved MiG-29S to use longer range R-27E air-to-air missiles. It added a dorsal 'hump' to the upper fuselage to house a jamming system and some additional fuel capacity. The weapons load was increased to 4,000 kg (8,800 lb) with airframe strengthening. These features were included in new-built fighters and upgrades to older MiG-29s.^[13][14]

A Russian Air Force MiG-29UB trainer landing

Refined versions of the MiG-29 with improved avionics were fielded by the Soviet Union, but Mikoyan's multirole variants, including a carrier-based version designated MiG-29K, were never produced in large numbers. Development of the MiG-29K carrier version was suspended for over a decade before being resumed; the type went into service with the Indian Navy's INS Vikramaditya, and Russian Navy's Admiral Kuznetsov class aircraft carrier.^{[citation needed]} Mikoyan also developed improved versions MiG-29M and MiG-29SMT.^[15][16]

There have been several upgrade programmes conducted for the MiG-29. Common upgrades include the adoption of standard-compatible avionics, service life extensions to 4,000 flight hours, safety enhancements, greater combat capabilities and reliability.^{[citation needed] "}

^~~

he Mikoyan MiG-29 (9-13) and MiG-29S (9-13S) 'Fulcrum-C'

NATO allocated the new reporting name 'Fulcrum-C' for aircraft fitted with a bulged and extended spine, which reportedly houses both fuel and avionics, and which may also be applied through retrofit. Internal fuel is increased by provision of larger No. 1 fuel tank, though different sources disagree as to the size of the increase (75, 130, 175 or 240 litres/20, 34, 46 or 63 US gal, according to Mikoyan documents). Soviet sources suggest that the 'Fulcrum-C' is still simply designated MiG-29, although the nickname 'Gorbatov' (hunchback) is commonly used.

One of the MiG-29S prototypes, this aircraft has a modified flight control system and upgraded radar, plus provision for Western avionics and underwing fuel tanks. A staged programme of modifications will allow the aircraft to carry up to 4000 kg of external stores. An inflight-refuelling probe and laser-, TV- and radar-guided ASMs will be added from 1995.

The first 'fatbacked' MiG-29 was 9-13, the second pre-production aircraft, which first flew on 23 December 1980, in the hands of V.M. Gorbunov. At one time the 'Fulcrum-C' seemed to be slowly replacing the 'Fulcrum-A' in VVS service, bu the two types continued in production alongside one another and often serve in the same units (occasionally with the very early ventral-finned MiG-29s). Pilots report that apart from endurance, there is no difference in flying/operating characteristics, although some sources suggest that the 'Fulcrum-C' has an enhanced ground attack capability and/or provision for an active jammer. Certainly the 9-13 has redesigned wingtips which appear to accomodate new RWR antennas. No 'hunchbacked' 'Fulcrum-Cs' have been exported yet, though Malaysia's MiG-29s may prove to be based on the 'Fulcrum-C'.

The unique contours of the 'Fulcrum-C's enlarged fuselage spine led to the allocation of new NATO reporting name, although the OKB designation is unchanged.

The 9-13 forms the basis of the improved MiG-29S (9-13S), which was designed as an increased-capability version of the standard MiG-29. According to Mikoyan, the MiG-29S represents "what happened when we squeezed all we could from the basic MiG-29 airframe." The new variant has a new modified flight control system, using small computers to improve stability and controllability, and the control surfaces have greater deflection. Alpha and g limits are increased. All MiG-29S features can be incorporated by upgrading existing 'Fulcrum-Cs', and MAPO is aggressively marketing a similar upgrade for export 'Fulcrum-As'.

The MiG-29S introduces revised radar/weapons system algorithms and software (and it is believed that processing capacity has been increased) to allow for the simultaneous tracking and engagement of multiple targets. The modified radar is redesignated N-019M. Operational capability has been enhanced by fitting a new sighting system, and more recently by making provision for the active homing AAM-AE 'AMRAAMski'. The first MiG-29S made its maiden flight during 1984, and three prototypes were followed by new production aircraft and conversions. Two polk (squadrons) are in service.

Although the spine of the 'Fulcrum-C' is considerably enlarged, it contains only 75-240 litres of extra fuel.

The designation MiG-29SE has been applied to an export version of the MiG-29S. This has a slightly downgraded radar (the N-019ME) which retains multiple-target tracking and which may give compatibility with AAM-AE. An aircraft displayed at Le Bourget in June 1993 was not a MiG-29SE, but was a standard MiG-29 variant plumbed for the carriage of underwing fuel tanks, but this is untrue, since many Soviet 'Fulcrum-As' have been seen carrying these for ferry flights. The MiG-29S may, however, be the first variant stressed to carry underwing tanks in combat, or to have provision for extra pylons (like the MiG-29M and the MiG-29K) to allow tanks to be carried without sacrificing weapons, and is the first export model offered with underwing tanks. External warload is doubled by the simple expedient of restressing the inner underwing pylons to carry up to four 500-kg (1,102-lb) bombs in side-by-side tandem pairs.

The end of the Cold War has led to a dramatic down-scaling of MiG-29 production, both for the VVS and for the export customers. Production in Moscow (at the Labour Banner factory) and in Nizhny Novograd continues at a very low rate, adding to a June 1993 stockpile which totalled about 100 unsold aircraft. A July 1993 Malaysian order for the MiG-29 may have been for some of these aicraft upgraded to MiG-29SE standards, or for MiG-29Ms. The 18 aircraft on order include some two-seaters (perhaps as many as six). Hungary's MiG-29s have been described as MiG-29Ss by some sources, but are actually standard 'Fulcrum-As'.

The brown and green ground attack colour scheme worn by some Russian and Ukrainian MiG-29s (mainly 'Fulcrum-Cs', but including some early ventral-finned 'Fulcrum-As') is very similar to that applied to Czech and East German air force aircraft. This Russian 'Fulcrum-C' carries a Guards badge, perhaps indicating previous service at Kubinka, but was photographed at Zhukhovskii, where it serves the LII Gromov Flight Research Centre as a development and test aircraft.

 

SPECIFICATION

Mikoyan MiG-29S

generally similar to the Mikoyan MiG-29 'Fulcrum-A' except in the following particulars:
Weights: normal take-off weight 15300 kg (33,730 lb): maximum take-off weight 19700 kg (42,680 lb)
Fuel and load: internal fuel 4440-4540 litres (976-998 US gal), external fuel 3,800 litres (1,004 US gal): maximum ordnance load 4000 kg (8,818 lb)
Range: ferry range 2900 km (1,566 nm; 1,802 miles) with three drop tanks

This unusual two-tone green camouflage, seen on a pair of of MiG-29s (this one a 'Fulcrum-C') departing from Ribnitz-Damgarten during May 1994, may be the latest MiG-29 fighter-bomber colour scheme, or may have been entirely experimental and applied at unit level. One of the 733rd IAP's three squadrons was believed to have a primary fighter-bomber role.

 

Source: Encyclopedia of World Military Aircraft 1994 © Aerospace

Edited May 18 by huchanronaa

[FlankerFan35]

Something more advanced but niche (in numbers) like SMT 9.18 would've been a stronger choice but maybe not possible, however this drop of water into the parched and dehydrated mouths of Redfor players in DCS is better than nothing.

[Dragon1-1]

8 hours ago, huchanronaa said:

The later improved versions of Mig-29 are quite different from the original version, and can even launch air-to-ground missiles. However, E.D. already has the FC4 version of Mig-29A 3D model, so in order to save development costs, they continued to use it when developing the high-fidelity version of Mig-29, because if they want to develop an improved version of Mig-29M or Mig-29S, it is the same as developing a new aircraft. However, for customers, what they want to play most is the improved version of Mig-29S or MIG29M, not the MIG-29A that has been played in DCS FC3 FC4

This has nothing to do with the exterior 3D model, by far, it's the cheapest part of any module development.

Refer to the Wikipedia yourself (it's not that great a source, TBH, the 9.12A avionics downgrades are marginal). The 9.13S has been produced in a handful of examples, two squadrons' worth. There are 10 MiG-29Ms in Russian service, 46 in Egypt. If the 9.12A sells, we could possibly get the regular 9.13, with the Gardenia ECM and some extra gas in the spine. While ED would no doubt make a glass cockpit variant if they could (just like they did for NATO jets), they likely lack documentation and permissions from the Russian government.

[DD_fruitbat]

23 hours ago, draconus said:

It's just the internal DCS joke.

Two weeks joke goes back to the original il2 and oleg maddox.....

[huchanronaa]

2小时前，Dragon1-1说：

This has nothing to do with the exterior 3D model, by far, it's the cheapest part of any module development.

Refer to the Wikipedia yourself (it's not that great a source, TBH, the 9.12A avionics downgrades are marginal). The 9.13S has been produced in a handful of examples, two squadrons' worth. There are 10 MiG-29Ms in Russian service, 46 in Egypt. If the 9.12A sells, we could possibly get the regular 9.13, with the Gardenia ECM and some extra gas in the spine. While ED would no doubt make a glass cockpit variant if they could (just like they did for NATO jets), they likely lack documentation and permissions from the Russian government.

Judging from the above-attached online data, since the external models and cockpits and weapan system of MIG-29M and MIG-29S are very different, if E.D chooses to develop MIG-29M or MIG-29S, it is equivalent to developing a new module. Therefore, it is speculated that E.D chose to use FC3's mig-29 3D modeling to develop MIG-29 for production cost considerations, so we can only get MIG-29A
As for someone who said: This has nothing to do with the exterior 3D model, by far, it's the cheapest part of any module developmen!!
Is this true?? Take a look at the old version of F-5E. E.D. only improved the 3D modeling and cockpit texture to make it a new version, but E.D. charged 15 US dollars!! 

Edited May 18 by huchanronaa

[draconus]

9 minutes ago, huchanronaa said:

E.D chose to use FC3's mig-29a 3D modeling to develop MIG-29 for production cost considerations

But the FC3 already includes MiG-29S model.

10 hours ago, huchanronaa said:

However, for customers, what they want to play most is the improved version of Mig-29S or MIG29M, not the MIG-29A that has been played in DCS FC3 FC4

Speak for yourself or a few MP bunch who cares only for the scores.

MiG-29 9.12 is the most popular and spread around the world, most relevant to RL conflicts.

[HWasp]

10 hours ago, huchanronaa said:

The later improved versions of Mig-29 are quite different from the original version, and can even launch air-to-ground missiles. However, E.D. already has the FC4 version of Mig-29A 3D model, so in order to save development costs, they continued to use it when developing the high-fidelity version of Mig-29, because if they want to develop an improved version of Mig-29M or Mig-29S, it is the same as developing a new aircraft. However, for customers, what they want to play most is the improved version of Mig-29S or MIG29M, not the MIG-29A that has been played in DCS FC3 FC4

Please refer to Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikoyan_MiG-29  and  

"https://sirviper.com/index.php?page=fighters/mig-29/mig-29s

The MiG-29 was widely exported in downgraded versions, known as MiG-29 9-12A for Warsaw Pact and MiG-29 9-12B for non-Warsaw Pact nations,^[12] with less capable avionics and no capability for delivering nuclear weapons.

In the 1980s, Mikoyan developed the improved MiG-29S to use longer range R-27E air-to-air missiles. It added a dorsal 'hump' to the upper fuselage to house a jamming system and some additional fuel capacity. The weapons load was increased to 4,000 kg (8,800 lb) with airframe strengthening. These features were included in new-built fighters and upgrades to older MiG-29s.^[13][14]

A Russian Air Force MiG-29UB trainer landing

Refined versions of the MiG-29 with improved avionics were fielded by the Soviet Union, but Mikoyan's multirole variants, including a carrier-based version designated MiG-29K, were never produced in large numbers. Development of the MiG-29K carrier version was suspended for over a decade before being resumed; the type went into service with the Indian Navy's INS Vikramaditya, and Russian Navy's Admiral Kuznetsov class aircraft carrier.^{[citation needed]} Mikoyan also developed improved versions MiG-29M and MiG-29SMT.^[15][16]

There have been several upgrade programmes conducted for the MiG-29. Common upgrades include the adoption of standard-compatible avionics, service life extensions to 4,000 flight hours, safety enhancements, greater combat capabilities and reliability.^{[citation needed] "}

^~~

he Mikoyan MiG-29 (9-13) and MiG-29S (9-13S) 'Fulcrum-C'

NATO allocated the new reporting name 'Fulcrum-C' for aircraft fitted with a bulged and extended spine, which reportedly houses both fuel and avionics, and which may also be applied through retrofit. Internal fuel is increased by provision of larger No. 1 fuel tank, though different sources disagree as to the size of the increase (75, 130, 175 or 240 litres/20, 34, 46 or 63 US gal, according to Mikoyan documents). Soviet sources suggest that the 'Fulcrum-C' is still simply designated MiG-29, although the nickname 'Gorbatov' (hunchback) is commonly used.

One of the MiG-29S prototypes, this aircraft has a modified flight control system and upgraded radar, plus provision for Western avionics and underwing fuel tanks. A staged programme of modifications will allow the aircraft to carry up to 4000 kg of external stores. An inflight-refuelling probe and laser-, TV- and radar-guided ASMs will be added from 1995.

The first 'fatbacked' MiG-29 was 9-13, the second pre-production aircraft, which first flew on 23 December 1980, in the hands of V.M. Gorbunov. At one time the 'Fulcrum-C' seemed to be slowly replacing the 'Fulcrum-A' in VVS service, bu the two types continued in production alongside one another and often serve in the same units (occasionally with the very early ventral-finned MiG-29s). Pilots report that apart from endurance, there is no difference in flying/operating characteristics, although some sources suggest that the 'Fulcrum-C' has an enhanced ground attack capability and/or provision for an active jammer. Certainly the 9-13 has redesigned wingtips which appear to accomodate new RWR antennas. No 'hunchbacked' 'Fulcrum-Cs' have been exported yet, though Malaysia's MiG-29s may prove to be based on the 'Fulcrum-C'.

The unique contours of the 'Fulcrum-C's enlarged fuselage spine led to the allocation of new NATO reporting name, although the OKB designation is unchanged.

The 9-13 forms the basis of the improved MiG-29S (9-13S), which was designed as an increased-capability version of the standard MiG-29. According to Mikoyan, the MiG-29S represents "what happened when we squeezed all we could from the basic MiG-29 airframe." The new variant has a new modified flight control system, using small computers to improve stability and controllability, and the control surfaces have greater deflection. Alpha and g limits are increased. All MiG-29S features can be incorporated by upgrading existing 'Fulcrum-Cs', and MAPO is aggressively marketing a similar upgrade for export 'Fulcrum-As'.

The MiG-29S introduces revised radar/weapons system algorithms and software (and it is believed that processing capacity has been increased) to allow for the simultaneous tracking and engagement of multiple targets. The modified radar is redesignated N-019M. Operational capability has been enhanced by fitting a new sighting system, and more recently by making provision for the active homing AAM-AE 'AMRAAMski'. The first MiG-29S made its maiden flight during 1984, and three prototypes were followed by new production aircraft and conversions. Two polk (squadrons) are in service.

Although the spine of the 'Fulcrum-C' is considerably enlarged, it contains only 75-240 litres of extra fuel.

The designation MiG-29SE has been applied to an export version of the MiG-29S. This has a slightly downgraded radar (the N-019ME) which retains multiple-target tracking and which may give compatibility with AAM-AE. An aircraft displayed at Le Bourget in June 1993 was not a MiG-29SE, but was a standard MiG-29 variant plumbed for the carriage of underwing fuel tanks, but this is untrue, since many Soviet 'Fulcrum-As' have been seen carrying these for ferry flights. The MiG-29S may, however, be the first variant stressed to carry underwing tanks in combat, or to have provision for extra pylons (like the MiG-29M and the MiG-29K) to allow tanks to be carried without sacrificing weapons, and is the first export model offered with underwing tanks. External warload is doubled by the simple expedient of restressing the inner underwing pylons to carry up to four 500-kg (1,102-lb) bombs in side-by-side tandem pairs.

The end of the Cold War has led to a dramatic down-scaling of MiG-29 production, both for the VVS and for the export customers. Production in Moscow (at the Labour Banner factory) and in Nizhny Novograd continues at a very low rate, adding to a June 1993 stockpile which totalled about 100 unsold aircraft. A July 1993 Malaysian order for the MiG-29 may have been for some of these aicraft upgraded to MiG-29SE standards, or for MiG-29Ms. The 18 aircraft on order include some two-seaters (perhaps as many as six). Hungary's MiG-29s have been described as MiG-29Ss by some sources, but are actually standard 'Fulcrum-As'.

The brown and green ground attack colour scheme worn by some Russian and Ukrainian MiG-29s (mainly 'Fulcrum-Cs', but including some early ventral-finned 'Fulcrum-As') is very similar to that applied to Czech and East German air force aircraft. This Russian 'Fulcrum-C' carries a Guards badge, perhaps indicating previous service at Kubinka, but was photographed at Zhukhovskii, where it serves the LII Gromov Flight Research Centre as a development and test aircraft.

 

SPECIFICATION

Mikoyan MiG-29S

generally similar to the Mikoyan MiG-29 'Fulcrum-A' except in the following particulars:
Weights: normal take-off weight 15300 kg (33,730 lb): maximum take-off weight 19700 kg (42,680 lb)
Fuel and load: internal fuel 4440-4540 litres (976-998 US gal), external fuel 3,800 litres (1,004 US gal): maximum ordnance load 4000 kg (8,818 lb)
Range: ferry range 2900 km (1,566 nm; 1,802 miles) with three drop tanks

This unusual two-tone green camouflage, seen on a pair of of MiG-29s (this one a 'Fulcrum-C') departing from Ribnitz-Damgarten during May 1994, may be the latest MiG-29 fighter-bomber colour scheme, or may have been entirely experimental and applied at unit level. One of the 733rd IAP's three squadrons was believed to have a primary fighter-bomber role.

 

Source: Encyclopedia of World Military Aircraft 1994 © Aerospace

Those more modern 29s would be a trap if you are after capabilities a competativeness, because they would not fit well into the late 1980s cold war scenarios, while still at a large disadvantage in more modern scenarios with their base model R-77s against the aim-120 carriers. More air to ground capability but in a worse overall position.

The 9.12 we are getting could be very competative in the late 1980s setups against all the other 4th gens limited to aim-7s, the FC3 we have already is.

There is an audience for older machines, people buy the F-14A/B, even though it's not the latest version, they also buy the F-4E, even though it's not some late modernised version.

I'll skip the F-35 but I'll buy the good old MiG-29...

[Dragon1-1]

1 hour ago, huchanronaa said:

Judging from the above-attached online data, since the external models and cockpits and weapan system of MIG-29M and MIG-29S are very different, if E.D chooses to develop MIG-29M or MIG-29S, it is equivalent to developing a new module. 

True about the M, not true about 9.13, which would require only a new external model and the Gardenia knob in the cockpit.

As mentioned above, they're very rare, and not as capable as you'd probably like, in any case. Su-27 is probably a better bet, but that likely won't be a modernized MFD variant, either.

Edited May 18 by Dragon1-1

[TotenDead]

3 часа назад, Dragon1-1 сказал:

There are 10 MiG-29Ms in Russian service, 

None, actually. There are 5 MiG-35S and 3 MiG-35UBs though, but it's unlikely there'll be more as RuAF seems to be uninterested in those

[Dragon1-1]

They had 10 at one point, though they might be counted with the SMTs now, seeing as Russians upgraded some of its MiG-29s to that standard, which is more or less similar to the M.

[TotenDead]

1 час назад, Dragon1-1 сказал:

They had 10 at one point, though they might be counted with the SMTs now, seeing as Russians upgraded some of its MiG-29s to that standard, which is more or less similar to the M.

MiG-29SMT is based in old 9.12/13 airframes while MiG-29M is a denavalized MiG-29K. You just can't make one from another, it's like rebuilding a superhornet into the legacy one 

[Kaktus]

pre-purchase asap... now the waiting game, .. ppl don't realize how important this project it, first red FF that is actually capable of any kind of bvr.. and is easily one of best dogfighters which we can't say for mig21 even if you put it in the time period it should be.

 

So, yes in DCS the plane is too vulnerable as its opposing 90s plus fighter tech which a 80s first iteration mig29 certainly going to struggle if not impossible to survive, but if you put all those f15, f14, f16 on 1980 tech and missiles then hell yes..

 

can't wait to learn to fly it perfectly..

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

And for many others, how "competitive" a new module is has zero impact on our purchase decision. I for one find Soviet aviation incredibly fascinating: what's going on in the designers' minds is so completely different from Western designs it leads to completely different solutions to sometimes the same sometimes different problems because of completely different doctrines.
I think it's very promising how active people are in this subforum since "pre-purchase" dropped and I hope it will sell so well ED will have $-signs in their eyes and make many more RedFor modules!

Edited May 18 by Raven (Elysian Angel)
auto-"correct"

[Kaktus]

10 minutes ago, Raven (Elysian Angel) said:

I think it's very promising how active people are in this subforum since "pre-purchase" dropped and I hope it will sell so well ED will have $-signs in their eyes and make many more RedFor modules!

agree, to me all the modules are study modules, you study them, try to immerse yourself in doctrines and their intended use and get a fullfilment when you do so, so i hope it sells well because i have been eying mig23 and later on mig27... hope it comes at some point.

 

and yes purchasing module based on it will be best and i will kill most in mp cant be the right mentality for our dcs community surely. for war thunder yes but here for me it makes no sense, only to a point it does, if i want to mp and actually have a fighting chance..i don't want to face f35 now do i..

[Nebula_Creates]

Personally? I find older modules more interesting. I like the analogue cockpits and the more limited weapons. I like the challenges that come with having to work around the limits of my airframe and find new, unique, tactics.