Is AI cheating, or am I just bad at dogfighting? (Or both)

[MAXsenna]

I wonder if adding weight would help to tame the MiG-21 a bit.....

Some DLC campaign creators do exactly this.

I'm midly curious about @Katmandu 's lua edits. Wouldn't it be wonderful if those that have some knowledge could edit this more realisticly, and then we could petition ED to implement them until we get the GFM?

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[diego999]

The AI MiG-21 is a bad joke of an UFO capable of 9G sustained turns with no speed loss. It would give a F-22 a run for his money.

We've tested and reported it, answer is always the same "wait for GFM" for years now, like dynamic campaign, Vulkan, you get my drift.

At least tweak it a little so it's not so absurd, but no, too much effort.

[Katmandu]

The glass is half full, people  Yes, there are issues with some(!) AI SFMs, but isn't it cool that we have access to make changes as we see fit?

Here is a table of DCS aerodynamic parameters that are used in SFM (on top of the power output per Mach band tables - those are self explanatory) from page 30 here https://forum.dcs.world/topic/97337-beginners-guide-to-dcs-world-aircraft-mods/.

The location of the SFM lua file is "DCS World OpenBeta\CoreMods\aircraft\MiG-15bis\MiG-15bis.lua" and so on for other aircraft. There just two small tables to edit in the file

To conclude, the

12 hours ago, MAXsenna said:

Wouldn't it be wonderful if those that have some knowledge could edit this more realistically

part is more accessible than it may initially appear. We load up the AI Climb Test/AI Turn Test missions with our jet having identical fuel, weapon and speed settings - missions link: https://forum.dcs.world/topic/326798-ai-turn-and-climb-performance-impossible-for-a-human-aircraft/#comment-5226532

We try our best to keep up with the AI. Then exit the game, tweak the parameter that we feel is out of whack, load back in, test again. Rinse and repeat until there is a good match with our PFM plane and its AI twin. The world is our oyster  Or, we could wait for ED, the second coming and the heat death of the universe

Edited June 13 by Katmandu

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

On 6/12/2025 at 7:35 AM, Hiob said:

I wonder if adding weight would help to tame the MiG-21 a bit.....

It absolutely does. It isn't perfect, but it's a temporary fix.

1. Put down a MiG-21 and name it. Let's use 'Fishbed' as the name.
2. Under the 'Triggers' box, make a new one. Set it to 'MISSION START" for event.
3. Under the 'Actions' box, make a new one, Set it to "DO SCRIPT'
4. Put this in the DO SCRIPT text box below the 'Actions' box: trigger.action.setUnitInternalCargo('Fishbed', 1600)

This adds an additional 1600kg of weight to the Fishbed. I've seen most recommend 2000, but I find that really makes the Fishbed lazy. Play with it to ascertain your own preference, but the sweet spot is between 1600kg and 2000kg.

You'll have to do this for every Fishbed in a mission, but it beats trying to fight the communist Magic School Bus.

[Hiob]

48 minutes ago, MiG21bisFishbedL said:

It absolutely does. It isn't perfect, but it's a temporary fix.

1. Put down a MiG-21 and name it. Let's use 'Fishbed' as the name.
2. Under the 'Triggers' box, make a new one. Set it to 'MISSION START" for event.
3. Under the 'Actions' box, make a new one, Set it to "DO SCRIPT'
4. Put this in the DO SCRIPT text box below the 'Actions' box: trigger.action.setUnitInternalCargo('Fishbed', 1600)

This adds an additional 1600kg of weight to the Fishbed. I've seen most recommend 2000, but I find that really makes the Fishbed lazy. Play with it to ascertain your own preference, but the sweet spot is between 1600kg and 2000kg.

You'll have to do this for every Fishbed in a mission, but it beats trying to fight the communist Magic School Bus.

Thanks for this!
This is awesome specific advice!

I will try that.

[Katmandu]

Adding weight via a script limits this workaround to missions which you edited yourself. The same result could be achieved by nerfing its thrust/weight ratio via dropping the thrust numbers across all Mach bands by the same percentage. This would automatically carry over to ALL missions and campaigns. 

It would also be good to validate the change against player controlled PFM plane with tests like the above, otherwise over-nerfing is like putting AI on easy. If one wants simulation of course.

Edited June 13 by Katmandu

[Hiob]

Well, it’s nice to have options. For a quick sortie, the script approach is certainly easier.

However for a real mission build you’re right of course.

i’m soaking all of this up, because so far, I didn’t really mess with either and I find the possibilities really interesting! 

[Kang]

I'd say the worst offender to me is the MiG-15 actually. To the point that dogfighting it in the Sabre - mind you, pretty much the only 'pairing' that ED ever really released - is so little fun that I had taken to tangling with more modern enemies instead during my Sabre era.

The problem of the simplified flight models of the AI being rather inaccurate in these regards obviously becomes more and more visible when you are actually dogfighting. DCS seems to much prefer BVR engagements of modern jets in which this doesn't matter much. But what is worse is that ED in all their combined wisdom have decided to include AI that pretty much exclusively and constantly sticks to manoeuvres and tactics that exploit/showcase this weakness of the simulation to the max.

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

55 minutes ago, Kang said:

I'd say the worst offender to me is the MiG-15 actually. To the point that dogfighting it in the Sabre - mind you, pretty much the only 'pairing' that ED ever really released - is so little fun that I had taken to tangling with more modern enemies instead during my Sabre era.

 

I actively recommend against buying either, just because they're without peers and have so many longstanding and unaddressed issues. They are not worth a purchase.

Edited June 13 by MiG21bisFishbedL