Are Supercarrier plane directors considered finished, or is this still in development?

[Dangerzone]

Hi,

Just wondering if plane directors are considered finished as is (or finished as is for the time being), or whether they are still being worked on. There's a number of things I've seen requested, which I am hoping was included in consideration such as:

• Ability to bypass parking after landing to go straight to the Catapult again
• Bypass the Wing fold requirements. (For mods and other aircraft)
• Changes to taxi logic. (Don't have planes go all the way to the stern after landing during recovery ops)
• Ability to set the carrier in 'Recovery' or 'Launch' mode manually. (Triggers/API Script).
• Disable the 180 degree auto-rotation in missions (for when the mission ends).
• The ability to specify only which cats (and thus which spawn slots) are available to use (to allow for placing of statics on bow)

Apart from the requests, I don't recall seeing any responses, so just looking for clarification as to whether:

1. The plane directors are considered finished and no current plans for making any changes (besides bug fixes)
2. The plane directors are considered 'on hold' for now as is... with plans to enhance them later in the distant future?
3. The plane directors are still actively been worked on to implement additional functionality? 
4. Something else?

It would just make it a bit easier for mission building/planning/etc to know what we should and shouldn't expect please. 

My apologies if this has been answered. I did a search and couldn't find anything, and don't recall reading anything. (Although that doesn't mean much - my google-fu ain't the greatest, and my memory has a bit to be desired too at some stages). 

Cheers

DZ

Edited Wednesday at 04:55 AM by Dangerzone

[BIGNEWY]

Hi, 

there maybe some more tweaks as we are still looking at feedback and have some issues reported and being worked on internally. 

I will move your post to wish list so the team can see your suggestions. 

Thank you for taking the time to put your ideas down. 

[Dangerzone]

Thanks BN! 

[DD_Fenrir]

If suggestions are being taken, I would add that the following would be an excellent QoL improvement, plus be more realistic:

• User selectable option to temporarily disable catapult 1 & 2 and allow parking on Cat 2

And if it would be possible when parking to have the directors position the aircraft the correct orientation and then for an automatic function push the aircraft back, even if would be a sudden snap rather than a gradual animation, I think would be better.

[DD_Friar]

47 minutes ago, DD_Fenrir said:

User selectable option to temporarily disable catapult 1 & 2 and allow parking on Cat 2

Perhaps a Comms menu option to enable/disable only available when in the Carrier Boss position? (thinking of multi-player?)

[Dangerzone]

29 minutes ago, DD_Friar said:

Perhaps a Comms menu option to enable/disable only available when in the Carrier Boss position? (thinking of multi-player?)

If this was to be done, I would be requesting an API function call to do it too. This would expand the options to be used in missions, scripting, etc beyond just a single purpose, but would also allow what you want too. 

[SeanTopperHarley69]

1. When you have lots of planes on the deck, you salute and no one comes and you don't know why

2. Directors waste cats, they tend to send all to the front 2 delaying everything

3. Worst thing, besides correct points made by OP, is the fact you CAN'T position planes like airports so your departure flow is ruined. This is even worse because point 1.

Last Friday we had a mission that went so bad that I had to some tests in which you can see directors send people mostly to the front.

 

[Dangerzone]

7 hours ago, SeanTopperHarley69 said:

1. When you have lots of planes on the deck, you salute and no one comes and you don't know why

2. Directors waste cats, they tend to send all to the front 2 delaying everything

3. Worst thing, besides correct points made by OP, is the fact you CAN'T position planes like airports so your departure flow is ruined. This is even worse because point 1.

Last Friday we had a mission that went so bad that I had to some tests in which you can see directors send people mostly to the front.

 

I think the directors send planes to a fixed catapult depending on where they are spawned. I don't think the directors are currently dynamic and each follows a set path from each spawn location to the designated cat. Would love to be proven wrong, but that's been my observation so far.

I get the feeling that the original idea may have been to be more dynamic than it is, but given reports that they went way over budget on this feature, I'd guess they faced unexpected hurdles and in the end had to go with a more simpler approach. One of the reasons I asked the question is that I'm aware of the over-budget thing, and am assuming that ED aren't going to want to invest anymore into this than is absolutely necessary to mark it complete / get the SC out of early access. I'm pleased to hear that they're still doing tweaks and considering requests.

Hopefully the majority of requests we've asked for are simple enough to include with their tweaks, but I don't have expectations that we'll see larger requests such as dynamic cats (if indeed the whole coding is based on fixed paths and this would require a rewrite) is something we'll ever see. 

As for set MP mission events - I add a second carrier about 20 miles away for a reserved launch/recovery operation if something gets stuck with the main carrier. Not the greatest workaround, but we work with what we have. 

Edited Monday at 10:15 PM by Dangerzone

[SeanTopperHarley69]

34 minutes ago, Dangerzone said:

I think the directors send planes to a fixed catapult depending on where they are spawned. I don't think the directors are currently dynamic and each follows a set path from each spawn location to the designated cat. Would love to be proven wrong, but that's been my observation so far.

I get the feeling that the original idea may have been to be more dynamic than it is, but given reports that they went way over budget on this feature, I'd guess they faced unexpected hurdles and in the end had to go with a more simpler approach. One of the reasons I asked the question is that I'm aware of the over-budget thing, and am assuming that ED aren't going to want to invest anymore into this than is absolutely necessary to mark it complete / get the SC out of early access. I'm pleased to hear that they're still doing tweaks and considering requests.

Hopefully the majority of requests we've asked for are simple enough to include with their tweaks, but I don't have expectations that we'll see larger requests such as dynamic cats (if indeed the whole coding is based on fixed paths and this would require a rewrite) is something we'll ever see. 

As for set MP mission events - I add a second carrier about 20 miles away for a reserved launch/recovery operation if something gets stuck with the main carrier. Not the greatest workaround, but we work with what we have. 

Haven't checked about the fixed routes but it very well could be. I'll check some more. In any case, since is not out of EA and is not going to be for a long time, I don't see why the rush to launch it like this....

I've thought about that second carrier but is so frustrating....... 

[Dangerzone]

2 hours ago, SeanTopperHarley69 said:

I've thought about that second carrier but is so frustrating....... 

I get what you mean. I ended up with a love/hate relationship with DCS. Absolutely love it, but banging my head against a brick wall with frustrations over and over. Gave myself half a years break from doing anything with it, self reflected and realized that I have been trying to use DCS for things that it's just either not ready for, or ED don't have a strong interest in supporting. I think one of the MP server hosters came with a similar conclusion in a youtube video earlier this year just as I was getting back in, which I found as a bit of confirmation. 

Since then, lowering and changing my expectations, I've enjoyed DCS more. I'm trying to get less rapped up on what DCS could be (or should be in my eyes), reduced my commitment to deep mission and scripting, keeping it more basic and just accepting it for what it is instead and working around the flaws instead of becoming increasingly frustrated with them. Avoiding modules that are "too EA" (like the Chinook, Afghanistan and Iraq) - and rather waiting to see what is at a state ready for me to enjoy. (Jumped on Germany - that's been brilliant right from the scratch, even if it has it's quirks and is only stage 1).  

I'd say as a result I've enjoyed DCS more in the last few months than I think I have for a number of years now. Nothing really changed with DCS (if anything, it's become a bit worse in some areas since they've abandoned the idea of a separate Beta/Stable release) and I'm dealing with more bugs (where once I used to watch this space, see the amount of issues people were dealing with but by the time a stable was released, either the majority were resolved and those that weren't I had plenty of 'heads up' time on what issues were and how to go about workarounds). But even with all that, I'd say it's been better for me in general since adjusting my own "hopes and dreams" accordingly. 

Edited Tuesday at 01:10 AM by Dangerzone

[draconus]

12 hours ago, SeanTopperHarley69 said:

I don't see why the rush to launch it like this

You mean the deck crew? They released the feature they deemed working good enough after years, no rush involved, and then they improved it and corrected some bugs. It still have some bugs and may not be what most players dreamed of but it works, at least for SP, those who understand how it works and those who committed some time testing it. Otherwise you could wait playing with empty deck waiting for the bug-free version god knows how long. You still can - just disable the crew.

13 hours ago, Dangerzone said:

I think the directors send planes to a fixed catapult depending on where they are spawned.

Yes, that is how it works from the beginning. Details in manual and forum.

[fagulha]

53 minutes ago, draconus said:

You mean the deck crew? They released the feature they deemed working good enough after years, no rush involved, and then they improved it and corrected some bugs. It still have some bugs and may not be what most players dreamed of but it works, at least for SP, those who understand how it works and those who committed some time testing it. Otherwise you could wait playing with empty deck waiting for the bug-free version god knows how long. You still can - just disable the crew.

It works good for me but it needs, like you said, understanding how it works and a lot of continuous testing.

Initially i said i probably won´t use the flight directors because it messes my taxi/take off flow but i adapted and now i can´t fly without them (just wish the deck crew run like in the first updates than casually walk while getting the aircraft ready for the cat shot), for me is a non-issue because i use my workarounds and i like to mess with ME a lot but for those who don´t mess with the ME is not a easy task or friendly to use if you want a crowded deck or use multiple aircraft in MP. 

 

Pic:

- This is my config for the flight directors. I had to move the helis and some equipment from below the island because it blocks the taxi routes. I have 9 planes including my flight of 2, 4 of the aircraft will spawn after 6 and 9 minutes (when some parking spawns are available). I play with mission start time so i can be positioned in the Patio (near the Fantail), for example, i add 2 secs to the start time of my flight so the mission start and the AI aicraft populate the spawn ramps and 2 secs later my flight spawns in the Patio or in one of the elevators depending on how i have my deck config. I add secs for some of the AI aircraft too, it needs a lot of testing but rewarding when it works out in some way.

I just leave this pic here if someone wants to take some ideas from it.

[draconus]

37 minutes ago, fagulha said:

I just leave this pic here if someone wants to take some ideas from it.

You have aircraft spawned in parking slots designated for Cat 2 (6, 10, 12, 13) so how does it work for you? Are these statics?

[SeanTopperHarley69]

5 hours ago, draconus said:

You mean the deck crew? They released the feature they deemed working good enough after years, no rush involved, and then they improved it and corrected some bugs. It still have some bugs and may not be what most players dreamed of but it works, at least for SP, those who understand how it works and those who committed some time testing it. Otherwise you could wait playing with empty deck waiting for the bug-free version god knows how long. You still can - just disable the crew.

Yes, that is how it works from the beginning. Details in manual and forum.

It's clear how they released it and thank you for your recommendations but your definitions of "works" is not same as mine.  

[fagulha]

3 hours ago, draconus said:

You have aircraft spawned in parking slots designated for Cat 2 (6, 10, 12, 13) so how does it work for you? Are these statics?

Yes those are statics so i don´t have aircraft taxing to cat 2.

[Dangerzone]

11 hours ago, fagulha said:

It works good for me but it needs, like you said, understanding how it works and a lot of continuous testing.

Initially i said i probably won´t use the flight directors because it messes my taxi/take off flow but i adapted and now i can´t fly without them (just wish the deck crew run like in the first updates than casually walk while getting the aircraft ready for the cat shot), for me is a non-issue because i use my workarounds and i like to mess with ME a lot but for those who don´t mess with the ME is not a easy task or friendly to use if you want a crowded deck or use multiple aircraft in MP. 

 

Pic:

- This is my config for the flight directors. I had to move the helis and some equipment from below the island because it blocks the taxi routes. I have 9 planes including my flight of 2, 4 of the aircraft will spawn after 6 and 9 minutes (when some parking spawns are available). I play with mission start time so i can be positioned in the Patio (near the Fantail), for example, i add 2 secs to the start time of my flight so the mission start and the AI aicraft populate the spawn ramps and 2 secs later my flight spawns in the Patio or in one of the elevators depending on how i have my deck config. I add secs for some of the AI aircraft too, it needs a lot of testing but rewarding when it works out in some way.

I just leave this pic here if someone wants to take some ideas from it.

How are you getting away with having statics on cat 1 and not having a player spawn in and get nativated to cat 1? Have you found a way to disable spawning in certain slots? Or is this done by the way you delay spawning of certain flights? 

If the latter, it sounds like with each update, there's a risk that ED may change something on how this works that will ruin your mission. (ie, they could change the spawn order to be random, which may then use Cat 1 again, etc)? Obviously if it's working for you that's fantastic, but just something to keep in mind. 

Unfortunately for me, I gave up on having statics on the deck. There's enough bugs and issues to deal with in DCS to add additional risks into the mix. I don't have the energy I once had to keep testing and tracking things down as much as I once had, but I would still very much one day like to get back to having a carrier that is setup nicely.

[fagulha]

34 minutes ago, Dangerzone said:

How are you getting away with having statics on cat 1 and not having a player spawn in and get nativated to cat 1? Have you found a way to disable spawning in certain slots? Or is this done by the way you delay spawning of certain flights? 

If the latter, it sounds like with each update, there's a risk that ED may change something on how this works that will ruin your mission. (ie, they could change the spawn order to be random, which may then use Cat 1 again, etc)? Obviously if it's working for you that's fantastic, but just something to keep in mind. 

Unfortunately for me, I gave up on having statics on the deck. There's enough bugs and issues to deal with in DCS to add additional risks into the mix. I don't have the energy I once had to keep testing and tracking things down as much as I once had, but I would still very much one day like to get back to having a carrier that is setup nicely.

I have no statics blocking cat 1. Only cat 2, so the AI and spawning aircraft only use cat 1, 3, and 4. Yes i fiddle with delaying spawn time and statics placement (with the help of the spawning and routes chart of the Supercarrier manual). I do this since day one of Supercarrier, it´s a constant fiddling for things work out. I´ve been using this deck config for awhile and it´s working for me, going to start a new deck config to change things a little when i have the time to do it.

Edited Wednesday at 01:03 AM by fagulha

[Dangerzone]

37 minutes ago, fagulha said:

I have no statics blocking cat 1. Only cat 2, so the AI and spawning aircraft only use cat 1, 3, and 4.

Are you sure? According to the picture you provided, the statics are on the port/left side of the forward catapults (which I understand to typically be Catapult 1 - but maybe I'm wrong)?

Edit: Hmm... looks like I am wrong. https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3312139/  Cat 1 appears to be on the starboard side. All this time I've been referencing the wrong cat number. 

37 minutes ago, fagulha said:

Yes i fiddle with delaying spawn time and statics placement (with the help of the spawning and routes chart of the Supercarrier manual). I do this since day one of Supercarrier, it´s a constant fiddling for things work out. I´ve been using this deck config for awhile and it´s working for me, going to start a new deck config to change things a little when i have the time to do it.

Aah - thanks for the clarification. I was kinda hoping there was a setting I had missed, like the ability to block certain spawn slots (thus blocking use of certain catapults) - as this would be far more robust and usable. Sounds like you've found a sneaky workaround for now. Nice work though to figure out that method. That would have taken some time I imagine!

Edited Wednesday at 01:39 AM by Dangerzone

[Tom P]

It has been known for awhile that the ground crew doesn't see statics. Your $50 super carrier wants an empty deck. Might work great in single player with the deck set up for a cat 1 launch. 

[draconus]

5 hours ago, Dangerzone said:

I was kinda hoping there was a setting I had missed, like the ability to block certain spawn slots (thus blocking use of certain catapults) - as this would be far more robust and usable. Sounds like you've found a sneaky workaround for now.

It did not change with any updates since years. I found this pic most helpful:

As you can see it's easy. Ex. you want to put statics on Cat 1 and block it from being used. Just put static Hornets on spots 11, 5, 9, 14 thus no aircraft are designated for Cat 1. Spots 1-4 (Six Pack) are not active in MP and are used once at the start of the SP mission so +1 second to all spawned aircraft is needed.

Also check this: https://wiki.hoggitworld.com/view/DCS_editor_carrier_spawns

[Dangerzone]

54 minutes ago, draconus said:

It did not change with any updates since years. I found this pic most helpful:

As you can see it's easy. Ex. you want to put statics on Cat 1 and block it from being used. Just put static Hornets on spots 11, 5, 9, 14 thus no aircraft are designated for Cat 1. Spots 1-4 (Six Pack) are not active in MP and are used once at the start of the SP mission so +1 second to all spawned aircraft is needed.

Also check this: https://wiki.hoggitworld.com/view/DCS_editor_carrier_spawns

Oh. So while the directors don’t detect statics, the spawning still does? That’s great. Thanks!!

[draconus]

4 minutes ago, Dangerzone said:

the directors don’t detect statics

They do but not just any statics or placed anywhere. Your best bet is a Hornet put exactly in the spawn spot.

[fagulha]

2 hours ago, Dangerzone said:

Oh. So while the directors don’t detect statics, the spawning still does? That’s great. Thanks!!

This chart will help too, i use this chart and the chart draconus posted so i can play with placement to clear the way for the taxi routes.

Edited Wednesday at 11:38 AM by fagulha