How to perform overhead break pattern in a crosswind?

[Supernova-III]

Situation: 8 kts lateral wind, I wanna do overhead break airfield landing.

• I start with the overhead break itself with 350 kts, pulling 1% of airspeed
• rolling out on the downwind, at about 1 nm from the runway (I actually tried 1.2nm), establishing on-speed AoA
• initiating 30 deg left turn, maintaining vertical speed at about 100-200
• at 90 deg I'm looking at the runway and realizing that my turn radius is WAY too large to make the runway on course upon rolling out
• again, 8 kts lateral wind, blowing to the left relative to the downwind

How to deal in such conditions? 

[razo+r]

Double crosswind correction.

After first break, you are obviously too close or too far. By applying one crosswind correction, you'll fly the correct track, if you double it you'll fly further outward/inward, giving you more space for the second turn.

Or simply adjust your bank angle depending on your needs/wind direction.

Edited Thursday at 11:16 PM by razo+r

[jaylw314]

2 hours ago, razo+r said:

Double crosswind correction.

After first break, you are obviously too close or too far. By applying one crosswind correction, you'll fly the correct track, if you double it you'll fly further outward/inward, giving you more space for the second turn.

Or simply adjust your bank angle depending on your needs/wind direction.

The wind had only a little to do with it.  At ~150 knots on downwind, an 8 knot direct crosswind requires only a 3 deg wind correction angle.  That makes a difference for big holding patterns, but for a fast plane in a small overhead break it's a small factor.  A Cessna 150 in a 20 knot crosswind, though...

FWIW, 1 nm sounds a bit too tight.  

[Supernova-III]

6 hours ago, jaylw314 said:

1 nm

I'm pulling around 1% of airspeed, this is something that happens on its own... BTW where does this 1% rule comes from? NATOPS doesn't tell anything like this. As well as 350 kts initial speed. 

Edited yesterday at 07:39 AM by Supernova-III

[Bremspropeller]

The 1%-thing is a technique, not a procedure. Don't get too hung up on it.

For CW correction, you'll have to adjust your pull. You're basicly adjusting your pattern for crosswind all the way round. In the break-turn by adjusting your pull and in the base-turn by adjusting your rate of descend and your angle of bank. The upwind, downwind and final segments will require you to adjust your heading to fly the correct track over the ground.

Assuming your're doing two 180° turns.

[Cepheus76]

Wind across the runway will become a headwind/ tailwind component in the break and base turn. For constant radius, decrease the bank angle when subjected to a headwind and increase it in a tailwind.

Now, if you want to get a feel for adjustments, you can practice "turns around a point". It is exactly as it says on the tin, pick a ground reference and circle around it, trying to maintain the same distance to the reference point as you circle around it.

This isn't as sexy as the very famous sh*t hot break at 500 knots, but a basic flight school maneuver which prepares the student, you may guess it, for pattern work.

Edited yesterday at 01:56 PM by Cepheus76
Correction of spelling mistake

[Supernova-III]

6 hours ago, Cepheus76 said:

Wind across the runway will become a headwind/ tailwind component in the break and base turn. For constant radius, decrease the bank angle when subjected to a headwind and increase it in a tailwind.

could you pls elaborate more on that? I'm not sure I understand about headwind and tailwind components.

[Bremspropeller]

Picture this:

- you're flying a left-hand pattern, runway has a 10 knot crosswind component from the left

- during your 180° break turn, this wind will start as a crosswind (from the left), becoming a headwind with max intensity 90° into the turn, becoming a crosswind from the right on downwind

- your base turn will be the opposite of the break: crosswind from the right, becoming a tailwind, becoming a crosswind from the left, when rolling out on final

Here you'll be facing multiple challenges:

Correcting the crosswind before the break. Modulationg the break pull (less pull) for correct spacing in downwind. Correcting the (now opposite) crosswind during the downwind part. Correcting for the tailwind during the base turn (steeper angle of bank).

If you pull normally through the break (with headwind at the 90° point), you'll end up way too close to the field, making the base turn harder to achieve - especially when the same wind will try to push you accross the centerline, as it's becoming a tailwind through the 90° point during the base turn.

If the wind blows opposite (crosswind on the runway coming from the right), you'll have to pull tighter during the break for correct downwind-spacing, but you can ease up your base turn, as you'll now have a headwind, which will less likely blow you through the centerline.

Makes sense?

 

[Supernova-III]

@Bremspropeller oh, that definitely makes sense! I had something like this in my mind, but have no idea, how to get that feel of how much should I pull/roll to correct my position depending on the where it blows and how strong it is.

[Cepheus76]

I have nothing to add to Bremspropellers explantion. If you really want to delve into the matter try this read:

https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/files/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation/airplane_handbook/08_afh_ch7.pdf

 

[Supernova-III]

14 hours ago, Cepheus76 said:

If you really want to delve into the matter try this read:

So cool, will be training!

[SteelPig]

How heavy have you been in the pattern? How far above sea-level was the airport? How hot was the air?

Since the flight-model overhaul I've noticed the Hornet tends to get fast in the base-turn when you are heavy and/or the air is hot like it can be in Nevada for example. When you decend in that turn like you've learned to do, you will get very fast very quick and overshoot the runway by far. 

[Supernova-III]

14 minutes ago, SteelPig said:

How heavy have you been in the pattern? How far above sea-level was the airport? How hot was the air?

1. It can be different, anything from 10k fuel all the way down to 6k, I overshoot no matter how heavy it is. But I understand that the weight matters. 

2. Kobuleti, almost at the sea level

3. Value by default. 20 degC I guess

 

I believe in my case the wind is the main factor, cause I'm able to fly the pattern with no wind.

Thank you all guys for meaningful answers, especially @Cepheus76 and @Bremspropeller