need track replay SPO-15 and Radar Problems MiG-29A Fulcrum

[VinntoreZ]

Hi, after testing the newest MiG-29A I've noticed some things not working properly.
At the start I'd like to say that I have read the early access manual as well as having access to real world manual of the aircraft.

First of all, I dont mind the AIM-120s not being in the thread library of that time, so the RWR does not recognise the launch - however turns out that the RWR does not recognise any launches at all. We get search and lock warnings but no launch warning.
I've tested this with only those units that should be in the SPO database like F-15, F-18  and other planes with SARH missiles as well as ground SAM's like hawk or sea based radars. No launch warning at all, not from SARH missiles and not from SAMs.

Second problem I encountered is the radar behauvior.
It has problems with target aquisition in AUTO and PURSUIT mode, especially in the PURSUIT making it pretty much useless as this mode was designed for chasing targets at close range. The contacts in both modes get detected without much problems but no matter the aspect and range you cannot lock it 90% of the time (yes, I'am holding the lock button, not only pressing, besides it works decent in HEADON mode as well as the close range OPT modes)
The radar VS mode (vertical scan) seems to not want to lock any target as well, no matter the range and aspect.
Tested this with normal sized targets like fighter jets as well as helicopters and big planes such as awacs.

Another small problem I noticed is that wings don't bend under the load (wing vapor looks cool af tho), gills moving at high aoa/low speed work only on owncraft (other planes on the server have them closed at all times besides landing/takeoff) and mirrors image is very low framerate.

I hope those things are bugs, not a features, and will hopefully be fixed soon.

[AeriaGloria]

It was only designed to get launch warning from Nike Hercules. 
 

I would like to convince ED in a post that maybe if the data was known, launch warnings could be added to other aircraft under the “automatic” setting 

[VinntoreZ]

3 minutes ago, AeriaGloria said:

It was only designed to get launch warning from Nike Hercules. 
 

I would like to convince ED in a post that maybe if the data was known, launch warnings could be added to other aircraft under the “automatic” setting 

Yes, thats the point, Automatic setting should allow it to see launches.

[AeriaGloria]

It’s a matter of convincing ED it’s not in some way hardwired just for Nike Hercules. 
 

Personally I would like them to just do it anyways for the sake of playability as redfor has suffered so much the past decade 

[BIGNEWY]

please include a track replay on caucasus. 

And Is the switch position Friend - Foe?

[VinntoreZ]

37 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

please include a track replay on caucasus. 

And Is the switch position Friend - Foe?

We were testing it on CW Germany, can I send that replay?
Also, it is working correctly on singleplayer

Edited September 17 by VinntoreZ

[BIGNEWY]

2 minutes ago, VinntoreZ said:

We were testing it on CW Germany, can I send that replay?
Also, it is working correctly on singleplayer

Caucasus is optimal as it runs better in our debug tools 

[VinntoreZ]

2 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

Caucasus is optimal as it runs better in our debug tools 

I forgot to mention, we were using the FRIEND-FOE switch in the default FOE postion.

I'm trying to replicate the issue right now on singleplayer and on caucasus and it seems like it is working fine, even the VS locks targets now. I used the same targets as on the MP mission we flown (su25 of enemy coalition) and the same setting of FRIEND-FOE switch (FOE).

Could the map or the fact that it was MP cause the issues? I and the person hosting the servers didnt have any mods installed.

[Fran11player]

I can confirm that the map affects directly to the radar performance, specially the ability of locking in RAD mode. Or at least I am having so much that impression. It is true that Caucasus is the one that makes it perform best.

[NineLine]

If you feel the issue is more prevalent on another map, that is fine, but please include a short track showing the issue. Thanks. 

[fjacobsen]

I guess the treat table for the SPO is setup for what existed at the end of the Cold war i.e Hawk, Nike-Hercules, F-14, F-15, F-16A, F-4, F-5, Mirage F-1 etc..

AMRAAMS was not existing at it´s current setting

[AeriaGloria]

4 hours ago, fjacobsen said:

I guess the treat table for the SPO is setup for what existed at the end of the Cold war i.e Hawk, Nike-Hercules, F-14, F-15, F-16A, F-4, F-5, Mirage F-1 etc..

AMRAAMS was not existing at it´s current setting

You have automatic setting

[ArcFire_Fox]

The bug im running into is radar contacts are only visible for a few seconds then constantly drop, I also cannot lock anything with the radar.  Ive been having this problem on both single player missions and multiplayer. 

[AeriaGloria]

2 minutes ago, ArcFire_Fox said:

The bug im running into is radar contacts are only visible for a few seconds then constantly drop, I also cannot lock anything with the radar.  Ive been having this problem on both single player missions and multiplayer. 

Well false contacts are modeled. So that will happen. 
 

Are you using AUT setting? Don’t 

[NineLine]

Still need a short track demonstrating the issues being seen, thanks.

[Nimbur]

I also have the same problem as described above, namely that regardless of which of the above jets fires a SARH missile or SAM such as the HAWK Site, no launch warning can be heard or seen. And I also noticed that the threat situation is displayed incorrectly on the SPO15, because in my mission, the radar of an F-14 was searching for me, but the SPO15 displayed the wrong threat types. I could then see, for example, that a ground-to-air radar was searching for me, e.g., an early warning detection system (EWR)
It also doesn't matter whether I have an F-18 or F-15 as an opponent in the mission, the same problem occurred, namely that the SPO15 is faulty and does not function correctly.

null

[okopanja]

29 minutes ago, Nimbur said:

I also have the same problem as described above, namely that regardless of which of the above jets fires a SARH missile or SAM such as the HAWK Site, no launch warning can be heard or seen. And I also noticed that the threat situation is displayed incorrectly on the SPO15, because in my mission, the radar of an F-14 was searching for me, but the SPO15 displayed the wrong threat types. I could then see, for example, that a ground-to-air radar was searching for me, e.g., an early warning detection system (EWR)
It also doesn't matter whether I have an F-18 or F-15 as an opponent in the mission, the same problem occurred, namely that the SPO15 is faulty and does not function correctly.

null

These cheat sheets are valid only for FC3. 

Mig-29A Fulcrum (FF) has a different SPO-15 more in line with manuals.

Main difference:

1. different cetagories

2. more restricted compared to FC3 variants. 

[AeriaGloria]

6 hours ago, Nimbur said:

I also have the same problem as described above, namely that regardless of which of the above jets fires a SARH missile or SAM such as the HAWK Site, no launch warning can be heard or seen. And I also noticed that the threat situation is displayed incorrectly on the SPO15, because in my mission, the radar of an F-14 was searching for me, but the SPO15 displayed the wrong threat types. I could then see, for example, that a ground-to-air radar was searching for me, e.g., an early warning detection system (EWR)
It also doesn't matter whether I have an F-18 or F-15 as an opponent in the mission, the same problem occurred, namely that the SPO15 is faulty and does not function correctly.

null

As mentioned, this is for old an incorrect FC3 SPO. 
 

On our more realistic FF SPO, if you reference the manual it will explain the categories 

1. there is no EWR/AWACS category as they are outside frequency range. This category is actually for pulse radars 

2. Most pulse Doppler 4th gen jets will be confused as a low power MRSAM/Hawk at long range. To show that it sees a low power Hawk, SPO will show flashing X. When the 4th gen gets closer, it will be properly identified as F, but still show flashing X. 
 

3. There is no launch warning in DCS as SPO-15 only does this for Nike Hercules. Some pulse radars will only show P when launching Fox 1 as P is for CW Illumination, but this isn’t always the case 

4. F-14 is the one exception among pulse Doppler radars as it functions differently, in which case it will show X at long range and P+X categories when within about 60 km as P is just for the CWI of Fox 1 guidance, which is often left on in F-14. 

The manual will explain much more 

[Nimbur]

 

Can we perhaps agree on an experimental function for the SPO 15 that allows players to revert to a less realistic SPO 15, as was the case with FC3? As a previous speaker already mentioned, there are a few modules where realistic authenticity is not necessarily desirable in terms of playability.

 

I know that ED places particular emphasis on authenticity, as does a large part of the community, but we mustn't forget that it's a game, and a game has to be playable in order to be played.

A large number of players are wondering why they paid for a module that is worse than Flaming Cliffs in terms of gameplay.  I'm only talking about the multiplayer aspect here. Many are reverting to FC Mig because it gives them better situational awareness, which is essential given all the dangers lurking out there.

Edited Tuesday at 11:39 PM by Nimbur

[MAXsenna]

4 hours ago, Nimbur said:

I know that ED places particular emphasis on authenticity, as does a large part of the community, but we mustn't forget that it's a game, and a game has to be playable in order to be played.

I do agree with this, options should be there. However...

4 hours ago, Nimbur said:

A large number of players are wondering why they paid for a module that is worse than Flaming Cliffs in terms of gameplay.  I'm only talking about the multiplayer aspect here. Many are reverting to FC Mig because it gives them better situational awareness, which is essential given all the dangers lurking out there.

Please riddle me why you are surprised? It was not like you weren't warned at all. I made a comment about this many moons ago, regarding that many users would be absolutely shocked with the differences and workload compared to the FC version. There's a reason DCS aims for FF, not? 

Funny you mention MP, which is kinda small compared to SP, even so I'm rooting for options for you guys!  

[AeriaGloria]

I didn’t expect the categories to be much trouble, I think the main thing with the categories is exactly what we saw above, being confused with the original FC3 categories. In which case, it’s simply a matter of time for people to get used to it, as well as the fact that by not having the frequency range to cover the EWR/AWACs categories of the original FC3 SPO. 
 

The newer/realistic categories also help you learn a lot about radars in general, getting pulse and CWI signals when a 3rd gen guides a fox 1. HPRF signals confused as CW signals at long range. As well as extra features, for example being able to tell if a F-15/16/18 is close or far away simply by seeing if you have a flashing X or an “F” symbol. 
 

Other inaccuracies are similar, for example the elevation lights will only trigger at short/medium range, but that also tells you something about the contact. You have a flashing light that estimates missile range from SAMs, and if aircraft are confused as SAMs ( the aforementioned case of flashing X) you also get an estimated missile range. It won’t always be correct, but with some practice you can begin to learn how dangerously close you are by checking category, signal strength, and where the flashing signal strength bar is. 
 

For example with F-15/18, the flashing bar is around 45-50 km, which is close to a long range sparrow shot. Both will show F category within 20-25 km, giving you an indication of “I should either be in attack position or running.” The signal strength bar amount is now exponential compared to linear, but again with practice you will soon realize what is danger close. 
 

Things I would consider significant weakness compared to FC3 is that it shows you being in the notch in an unconventional way (50 and 90 light together) and only at WVR ranges. You could make the argument however that teaches better and more realistic habits of using EWR for your notch angle, as well as telling you if you get these 50/90 lights together, the enemy is danger close. 
 

Once you get the hang of it, I feel the only true weakness becomes not showing launch and not working with radar. Of course YMMV, but I would implore that it even took us time to fully understand original SPO-15, and understanding this one may take longer but be more rewarding and often give you more information then the original that only showed “P” and one light for every fighter at every range. 

Edited yesterday at 08:09 AM by AeriaGloria

[Pavlin_33]

21 hours ago, Nimbur said:

I know that ED places particular emphasis on authenticity, as does a large part of the community...

This is not even completely true. So called FF detailed airplanes don't even have basic stuff modeled correctly, like IFF, ECM, RWR, pitot tube freezing, engine surges and so on.