Request for a legacy SPO-15 realism option

[swartbyron]

We have already the option of choosing a fully realistic INS or a non realistic one that requires no fix taking.

No fix taking being the non realistic option and brings the INS in line with how it worked in the FC MiG-29A.

Could ED consider something similar the SPO-15LM?

Example:

Default - [Fully realistic]

[User option] - Legacy FC3]

As with the INS option, this would be naturally be enforced by the mission creator.

 

Edited October 7 by swartbyron

[AeriaGloria]

Sure, but please not original fc3 SPO. Just give it launch warning and be used with radar. 
 

With RSBN correction the nav system also doesn’t need fix taking, the most it will be off is about 800m but no more becuase of the constant RSBN updates. 

[Mainstay]

I would like this option as well. 

Indeed make it work with radar on and launch warning and that would be awsome!

[Apok]

I guess this would solve the issue ppl have with SPO not synced with radar. Option would cuircumvent the argument.

[swartbyron]

2 hours ago, AeriaGloria said:

Sure, but please not original fc3 SPO. Just give it launch warning and be used with radar. 

The option of having lauch warning and a working front sector when the radar is transmitting will satisfy most people.

[Drona]

+1 for this.

[Thirsty]

+1
Seems like the best option since ED didn't seem to care a lot about the contradicting documentation and information about the function of the SPO-15

[Schmidtfire]

Since we’re already asking for a fictional/modified SPO-15, we should also ask for R-77.

Name the option ”MIG29 modified edition” and call it a day. Not much worse offense than KA-50 with 3 pylons, MIG-21bis with Grom or F-16C with 4 Harms.

Or we can accept the MIG-29 for what it is with the limitations it had in real life.

Edited Thursday at 03:03 PM by Schmidtfire

[Thirsty]

On 10/9/2025 at 5:01 PM, Schmidtfire said:

Or we can accept the MIG-29 for what it is with the limitations it had in real life.

Sure I have no problem, but that means all the aircraft should be what limitations in had in real life.
Just like the ones you mentioned above
Additinonally, that all aircraft in DCS (other than the F-4 and the FF 29) has a magic RWR that picks up SARH launches that it shouldn't.

In the end, next to the study level simulation, people are using these aircraft to fly in virtual PvE or PvP combat scenarios.

And right now, you can't take the 29 anywhere, since everything has magical properties.

This is why a switch option like that what is mentioned on this thread would be really good or would solve all the current issues with the only full fidelity Soviet 4th gen aircraft.

[swartbyron]

True to life realism is wonderful but our MiG-29 is handicapped when it comes to flying on our favourite servers and in the way the community likes to play DCS.

Hunting alone or capturing bases, reaming and repeating is not in anyway realistic, but it is the way the community plays DCS and is part of our culture.

GCI when it comes will make PVP servers more playable I suppose but the super realistic state of RWR makes the usual way we like to fly on PVE servers is a frustrating  and sometimes an impossible task.

Others just want to be able to enjoy their single-player missions without their wingman giving them a constant lock tone the whole flight.

We have an option for unrealistic labels, and they are set to on in most missions, campaigns, and servers, for heaven’s sake.

If we want more realism, they can be turned off by the player or forced off by the mission designer.

So having the option of having our SPO-15 work a little more like we are used to is not that far-fetched nor be an unfair advantage and would just make flying the MiG the way we like to fly it more enjoyable for the vast majority of players. 

I really do hope ED considers this.

 

Edited Friday at 04:53 PM by swartbyron

[Apok]

On 10/10/2025 at 5:57 PM, Thirsty said:

Sure I have no problem, but that means all the aircraft should be what limitations in had in real life.
Just like the ones you mentioned above
Additinonally, that all aircraft in DCS (other than the F-4 and the FF 29) has a magic RWR that picks up SARH launches that it shouldn't.

In the end, next to the study level simulation, people are using these aircraft to fly in virtual PvE or PvP combat scenarios.

And right now, you can't take the 29 anywhere, since everything has magical properties.

This is why a switch option like that what is mentioned on this thread would be really good or would solve all the current issues with the only full fidelity Soviet 4th gen aircraft.

 

I would prefer all real but since magic stuff wont go away...

[Dragon1-1]

Maybe it will. Since ED has gone to such lengths to give the MiG a correct RWR, maybe they'll look into better modeling for Western ones, too. Maybe for the F-15C, at least at first.

[Thirsty]

3 hours ago, Dragon1-1 said:

Maybe it will. Since ED has gone to such lengths to give the MiG a correct RWR, maybe they'll look into better modeling for Western ones, too. Maybe for the F-15C, at least at first.

That is in many many years. Think about it. F-16, F/A-18, F-14, M2K, JF-17, F-5, all FC3.
(And correct is a big word, yes the lack of a launch warning is correct, but that's all about it. It doesn't turn off with the radar on)

This can't be a change that goes through a year, this is a multi layer change where all the logical simulation of that RWR system needs to be reworked. 

So again, having that option would solve the problem until everything will be added and updated to the proper simulation standard

[Thirsty]

5 hours ago, Apok said:

I would prefer all real but since magic stuff wont go away...

I would as well, but since there is no realistic option for those jets, this is the best option of the two worlds, a simple mission editor setting.

 

[Dragon1-1]

10 hours ago, Thirsty said:

That is in many many years. Think about it. F-16, F/A-18, F-14, M2K, JF-17, F-5, all FC3.

FC3 is not happening, though we might see it phased out in MP eventually. M2K is probably not happening because RAZBAM (it'll probably break one day and stop being an issue). F-16 and F-5 that we have use the ALR-56, so it should be easy to port over from the F-15. Hornet's ALR-67 is another matter, but that's just one RWR. JF-17 and F-14 are 3rd party products, I'd expect HB to get with the program rather quick (the current F-14s have the ALR-67, though an older version than the Hornet), you might have to wait a long time for the Jeff, but as it's a very modern aircraft, its RWR suite will probably be better than others even when updated.

[AeriaGloria]

On 10/10/2025 at 9:51 AM, swartbyron said:

True to life realism is wonderful but our MiG-29 is handicapped when it comes to flying on our favourite servers and in the way the community likes to play DCS.

Hunting alone or capturing bases, reaming and repeating is not in anyway realistic, but it is the way the community plays DCS and is part of our culture.

GCI when it comes will make PVP servers more playable I suppose but the super realistic state of RWR makes the usual way we like to fly on PVE servers is a frustrating  and sometimes an impossible task.

Others just want to be able to enjoy their single-player missions without their wingman giving them a constant lock tone the whole flight.

We have an option for unrealistic labels, and they are set to on in most missions, campaigns, and servers, for heaven’s sake.

If we want more realism, they can be turned off by the player or forced off by the mission designer.

So having the option of having our SPO-15 work a little more like we are used to is not that far-fetched nor be an unfair advantage and would just make flying the MiG the way we like to fly it more enjoyable for the vast majority of players. 

I really do hope ED considers this.

 

Yeah kinda hard to say when they are all just 4 antennas with amplitude comparison

[draconus]

On 10/7/2025 at 10:40 AM, swartbyron said:

No fix taking being the non realistic option and brings the INS in line with how it worked in the FC MiG-29A.

It's pointless to model FF just to dumb it down to the FC level, which we already have. The solution is to select "MiG-29A" instead of "MiG-29A Fulcrum" in your mission.

[=MiG=karapus78]

On 10/7/2025 at 11:40 AM, swartbyron said:

We have already the option of choosing a fully realistic INS or a non realistic one that requires no fix taking.

No fix taking being the non realistic option and brings the INS in line with how it worked in the FC MiG-29A.

Could ED consider something similar the SPO-15LM?

Example:

Default - [Fully realistic]

[User option] - Legacy FC3]

As with the INS option, this would be naturally be enforced by the mission creator.

 

Please don't make the game casual! 
There are other games where you can fly simplified airplanes.

[swartbyron]

35 minutes ago, =MiG=karapus78 said:

Please don't make the game casual! 
There are other games where you can fly simplified airplanes.

Nobody is asking for the game to be made casual, you are free to play it as realistically as you please.

All that is being asked here is that an option could be made available for those that want it.

Nobody would become disadvantaged or have their realism spoiled if this option became available.

All the hard core 'real' pilots, will still have their beautifully modelled as real as it gets SPO-15. 

While the rest of us can enjoy our snap views, labels, easy radios, easy INS, auto rudder and if we are lucky an easy SPO-15 when mission designers allow.

Edited 5 hours ago by swartbyron

[=MiG=karapus78]

14 minutes ago, swartbyron said:

Nobody is asking for the game to be made casual, you are free to play it as realistically as you please.

All that is being asked here is that an option could be made available for those that want it.

Nobody would become disadvantaged or have their realism spoiled if this option became available.

All the hard core 'real' pilots, will still have their beautifully modelled as real as it gets SPO-15. 

While the rest of us can enjoy our snap views, labels, easy radios, easy INS, auto rudder and if we are lucky an easy SPO-15 when mission designers allow.

I still can't understand why simplify what makes this game beautiful? In the modules, a lot of things are already simplified, especially depressing the default position of the tumblers and various kinds of regulators. Much is included, configured and does not require intervention. (The same Apache will not lie)

[AeriaGloria]

I have not noticed much drift without RSBN correction. 
 

It should be around 4% per distance flown without RSBN and about 800m + a bit for the distance to the beacon with RSBN. 
 

How about this, set up to have an RSBN that your nav system corrects off. And you’ll only ever be around 800m off. 

[Thirsty]

5 hours ago, =MiG=karapus78 said:

Please don't make the game casual! 

And again, then what about this few just as a quick example:

 

On 10/9/2025 at 5:01 PM, Schmidtfire said:

KA-50 with 3 pylons, MIG-21bis with Grom or F-16C with 4 Harms.

Plus all the magical RWRs, these are all "casual" when it comes to your term. 
At that point, all of this should be removed as well? 

This is not asking for making everything work like the previus one does. but allowing people of making a choice.
If you want your missions to have the more "realistic" SPO-15, then you can set it in the mission editor, or if you don't then you have other options.

In the end you are still playing a game flying virtual jets.
There is no such as "casual" or "hardcore"

[Schmidtfire]

3 minutes ago, Thirsty said:

Plus all the magical RWRs, these are all "casual" when it comes to your term. 
At that point, all of this should be removed as well? 

We all have our own preferences. I think it's a good thing that we're moving towards more realistic modeling of RWR's. The perfectly timed dance between missile launch-RWR warning-notch is such a DCS-ism and it makes the gameplay very predictable.

Ideally, changes would be implemented for all modules, but it is likely something that will happen slowly over time. A few days ago ED made a post about  Mi-24P SPO-10 changes. Aircraft like AJS-37 Viggen, JF-17 F-4E, F-14 already has complex RWR's implemented. Upcoming F-14A (early) and F-100 will also feature a more complex RWR.

Modern fighters like F-16C, F/A-18C and JF-17 is obviously a little more problematic. But they are not really the main opponents for the MIG-29A Fulcrum.

I am all for options. Don't get me wrong. Some players like a more accessible and gameplay-like approach. That's why I also suggested adding R-77 as an option if we're already asking for more SPO-15 options. Possibility to tailor the aircraft to how the players want to fly it.