Prematurely exploding KA50?

[BlackFallout]

I find that the KA50 explodes way to easy. I landed rough from an auto gyration after taking a hit and it just exploded(wasn't on fire BTW)... it didnt even seem that hard like 20 km/h impact.

 

I began playing around with the KA50 repeatedly crashing it in many different ways. And from my experience it explodes way to easily.

 

In one test I was traveling forward @ 180 km/h at about 2m above the ground and then I eased it into the ground with gear down it started flipping end over end and then it just exploded. Kind of anticlimactic.

 

If the code were tweaked so the trigger explosion code wasn't as sensitive. This would remedy the KA50's premature ejacula- exploding problem. (Not saying its a "problem").

[Martillo1]

I was traveling forward @ 180 km/h at about 2m above the ground

:joystick:

[joey45]

It's not designed to do that at that speed...

[Dethmagnetic]

A helicopter fully loaded with jet fuel and high explosives flipping end-over-end at 180 km/hr sounds like a pretty good candidate for an explosion to me :shocking:

[BlackFallout]

It wasn't flipping that fast when it exploded. it was on its final flip where it was about to come to a rest when it exploded and I did not have any weapons loaded.

 

I've done this at various speeds, slow speeds generated the same result.

 

There's a video on youtube of a UH-60 clipping its blades on the side of a mountain then "gently" rolling down the side of the mountain. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qO1F6iqsUUE

 

I did this with the KA50 but it exploded, I retried multiple times with various mountains and slopes but it always explodes.

[GGTharos]

I suggest watching videos of helis and aircraft 'not looking like they're going that fast before exploding' to get some perspective.

 

Finally, this is a combat flight simulator, not a Ka-50 bent airframe simulator ;)

[Cyb0rg]

:D

[BlackFallout]

I suggest watching videos of helis and aircraft 'not looking like they're going that fast before exploding' to get some perspective.

 

Finally, this is a combat flight simulator, not a Ka-50 bent airframe simulator ;)

 

I wish it was.:D

 

OH man if you could bend the air frame that would be so awesome and realistic!

Edited September 29, 2009 by BlackFallout

[JG14_Smil]

I suggest watching videos of helis and aircraft 'not looking like they're going that fast before exploding' to get some perspective.

 

Finally, this is a combat flight simulator, not a Ka-50 bent airframe simulator ;)

 

wow, thank you for the laughs GGTharos! :)

 

helo holds up well in my opinion.

[mvsgas]

Every aircraft/helicopter reacts differently to a crash. Just because a UH-60 (or a HH-60, which I believe it's what is shown in the video) can withstand a crash of that magnitude without exploding it does not mean ever helicopter can survive that crash or it would not explode.

I have crash many, many, many time in the KA-50, and I do not explode every time, I have to hit the ground very hard to explode. In real life it depends not only on the equipment (aircraft type, type of engine, etc) but also on fuel type, the severity of the crash, etc.

[DocNobby]

I don't know of any helicopter crash, were the heli actually exploded.

Why would it? Jet fuel can burn of course, but to explode you need a mixture of fuel and oxygen in a contained environment. Weapons will only explode if they are armed, or exposed to high temperature for long time.

I think the explosions are more of a video game "feature" thing. :music_whistling:

 

Once I tried to land a damaged Shark, I made a very smooth touchdown, but it exploded imedeatly when touching the ground. Reminds me of EECH a bit. :D

[Migo]

Only thing I was very angry about was a terrain bug, I landed, wheels were stuck in the ground and started bouncing and suddenly ka50 exploded.

But that was a bug I think it's ok overall =)

[Lava]

There's plenty of anecdotal evidence about exploding helicopters, airplanes, and even cars. A reasonable number of bad car accidents I've seen involve a fire. I also have read about plane and helo accidents where there's very little to recover, due to fire. Cases where they just had to sit back because the flames were so intense.

 

That helo crash linked in the video isn't very convincing as a reference for exploding helicopters. That was at high altitude (less oxygen), in cold temperatures, and with the snow greatly cushioning the copter body, the debris, and the flailing rotors.

 

Any time you get any fuel leak, combined with extremely hot metal, you can get a fireball. The hot surfaces of an engine would be enough to vaporize and ignite any fuel instantly. The autoignition temperature of jet fuel A-1 is 210C and 410F. Your turbines run a great deal hotter than that.

[BlackFallout]

Only thing I was very angry about was a terrain bug, I landed, wheels were stuck in the ground and started bouncing and suddenly ka50 exploded.

But that was a bug I think it's ok overall =)

 

The reminds me of my KA50 bouncing on the ground with crushed gear and then exploded from the bouncing.

[mvsgas]

I don't know of any helicopter crash, were the heli actually exploded.

Why would it? Jet fuel can burn of course, but to explode you need a mixture of fuel and oxygen in a contained environment. Weapons will only explode if they are armed, or exposed to high temperature for long time.

I think the explosions are more of a video game "feature" thing. :music_whistling:

 

Once I tried to land a damaged Shark, I made a very smooth touchdown, but it exploded imedeatly when touching the ground. Reminds me of EECH a bit. :D

 

I could not tell you how accurate the KA-50 explosions are in DCS or if the KA-50 is that susceptible or likely to explode. I do know that is not the fuel that you need to worry about but the fumes/gases coming out of the fuel. Depending on the type of fuel, flash point may be as low as 100 degrees, my video card could set fuel off.

Link to JP-8 Material safety data sheet, as a reference for flash point

 

Not all weapons need to be armed to explode, it depends on the safety features on the specific weapon. Other thing that are very dangerous are Flares or WP rockets (Willy Pete Rockets) that could burn through almost all aircraft material. Also, if or when you crash, the engine blades, main rotor blades, tire, etc become grenades. An engine turbine blade ( if liberated) has a lot of energy.

 

Like I said, I could not tell you if the KA-50 damage model in DCS BS is accurate, I'm only saying that other helicopters could explode as well, if they where to hit the ground hard enough, or if they suffer damaged to some critical areas.

Maybe if some one has a video of a KA-50 crashing and can post it somewhere we would be able to tell how accurate DCS is. ( when referring to Helicopter exploding after damage).

[EvilBivol-1]

As mentioned above, your have to remember that despite the detail implemented in the damage model, there are still pretty fundamental model limitations in play here. An exploding Ka-50 really means fatal unrecoverable damage to the helicopter. Whether it would actually explode or not in reality is impossible to calculate, but in the simulation an explosion is triggered when a certain force is exerted onto the aircraft upon impact to essentially simulate a fatal crash. Specifically, this force is programmed to be 4,500,000 N or 45G.

[BlackFallout]

As mentioned above, your have to remember that despite the detail implemented in the damage model, there are still pretty fundamental model limitations in play here. An exploding Ka-50 really means fatal unrecoverable damage to the helicopter. Whether it would actually explode or not in reality is impossible to calculate, but in the simulation an explosion is triggered when a certain force is exerted onto the aircraft upon impact to essentially simulate a fatal crash. Specifically, this force is programmed to be 4,500,000 N or 45G.

 

Is there any way for "us" the users to modify this?

 

 

All I'm saying is sometimes I just tap the ground with my KA50 and it explodes, not a hard tap just a light tap and boom. I can recreate the situation and put it on youtube if you want.

Edited October 1, 2009 by BlackFallout

[SUBS17]

I read somewhere that the Blackhawk is designed to sustain a 20g crash landing also alot of helicopters now days are designed with alot of safety features for crashes to prevent the tanks from exploding although it does still happen in some cases. As for the ammunition they would most likely not explode in a crash until after the fire cooked them off unless there was a faulty fuse.

[sinelnic]

What we could do is create a table with different crash scenarios (different speeds, vertical speeds, angles, etc) and then assign each scenario to one of us posters.

 

We can then go rent real choppers and test the scenarios, and write our impressions here. Evil-Bivol can keep track of all responses to forward the empirical input to the dev team, they will surely appreciate the effort.

[26-J39]

Every aircraft/helicopter reacts differently to a crash. Just because a UH-60 (or a HH-60, which I believe it's what is shown in the video) can withstand a crash of that magnitude without exploding it does not mean ever helicopter can survive that crash or it would not explode.

I have crash many, many, many time in the KA-50, and I do not explode every time, I have to hit the ground very hard to explode. In real life it depends not only on the equipment (aircraft type, type of engine, etc) but also on fuel type, the severity of the crash, etc.

 

Well said....... There are a massive amount of variables to evaluate when it comes to a crash... its not just a matter of how hard you hit the ground...

[Lava]

What we could do is create a table with different crash scenarios (different speeds, vertical speeds, angles, etc) and then assign each scenario to one of us posters.

 

We can then go rent real choppers and test the scenarios, and write our impressions here. Evil-Bivol can keep track of all responses to forward the empirical input to the dev team, they will surely appreciate the effort.

 

LOL I think we have a winner!

[Nutkin]

What we could do is create a table with different crash scenarios (different speeds, vertical speeds, angles, etc) and then assign each scenario to one of us posters.

 

We can then go rent real choppers and test the scenarios, and write our impressions here. Evil-Bivol can keep track of all responses to forward the empirical input to the dev team, they will surely appreciate the effort.

 

In one test I was traveling forward @ 180 km/h at about 2m above the ground and then I eased it into the ground with gear down it started flipping end over end

 

Can tell you what the result of this one would be :megalol:

[BlackFallout]

None of you guys get it.

 

Some of the explosion triggers are not realistic, its like the physics engine cant calculate the proper damage and instead just makes the KA50 explode.

 

I don't like this as some of the crash's would have been survivable.

 

I crashed my KA50 last night and it was standing up on its nose with no rotors after flipping, and when it gently fell over it just exploded. I REALLY don't think a real helicopter would explode from just falling over like that.

[Migo]

But then, you know, whats the point ? You can think "Well in this simulator my KA50 blew up but in real life I would have survived it" know what I mean. It's not that you get killed in real life because your chopper exploded ingame.

 

Why are you so damn worried about that ?

[Nutkin]

 

it was standing up on its nose with no rotors

 

Lol! These just get better and better!

 

What are you doing to the poor Ka-50's?! Go hunt some MBTs

 

Saying that, perhaps we could start a thread '101 inventive ways to kill a Ka-50' :)