Perfect stick for A-10C from Thrustmaster?

[*Rage*]

stick is basically the same as the Fighterstick) parallel to DCS: A-10C. No official statement on that, though.

 

 

Really?? Same old Fighterstick?

 

After all this time...Not impressed.

[lawndartleo]

Never had an issue with CH joystick, or throttle for that matter. Really top shelf stuff. Always thought they should put out a dual throttle, though. I am not even picky about it looking like something from a real plane. The Pro Throttle is not the prettiest piece of equipment and certainly resembles nothing in particular but it is very comfy and does the trick quite well.

[Yskonyn]

You forgot to add:

 

-CH Products A-10C HOTAS

 

I didnt list that one because there's no info on a consumer version at all. Only that one is planned somewhere along the line.

 

TM, Saitek and Logi will have theirs available (In the case of Logi its already here) before CH will have theirs from the looks of it at the moment.

You can, of course, argue about TM, though. But then again a teaser hints at something to come in the not too distant future, whereas CH hasn't promised anything yet let alone provided a teaser of any sort.

 

So I personally dont think this CH stick is here around xmas.

[Feuerfalke]

I didnt list that one because there's no info on a consumer version at all. Only that one is planned somewhere along the line.

 

TM, Saitek and Logi will have theirs available (In the case of Logi its already here) before CH will have theirs from the looks of it at the moment.

You can, of course, argue about TM, though. But then again a teaser hints at something to come in the not too distant future, whereas CH hasn't promised anything yet let alone provided a teaser of any sort.

 

So I personally dont think this CH stick is here around xmas.

 

 

Did you read my post above?

 

An official announcement is more than TM has. ;)

I can advertise a lot, especially without a timeframe.

 

 

@ 941st_Rage:

The A-10C-Stick is identical to the stick in the F-16. As posted above, it was my conclusion, that they won't invent a stick from scratch, they have already successfully established on the market.

 

Got to say that in this case the CH-Alternative is well worth waiting for in this comparrison:

TM is not really renown for longlivety products (at least not in the version they come in the box).

Logitche sells a whole package, including even rudders - why would I spend money for something I already have and are happy with?

Saitek is no alternative if you fly WW2 planes - I don't remember any WW2 plane with pressure-sensors.

CH on the other hand, gives you even the ability to just replace a single part of their HOTAS, Stick, Throttle OR Rudders. If you want, even a Yoke. And their hardware is of high quality and it comes with excellent software.

 

Well, but of course everybody has to make up his own mind.

Edited November 16, 2009 by Feuerfalke

[Yskonyn]

Yeah you've got a point, but it wouldn't be wise from a marketeer's standpoint to make a teaser without revealing more details not too long after that.

That makes me think TM's product will be here before CH's.

 

You have a very good point as well about the Logi gear;

I, for example, already have a CH Pro Pedals which I use in conjunction with my Saitek X52, so an extra rudder pedals I don't need.

Therefore the Logitech kit only becomes a consideration if they decide to sell the gear in modules as well.

 

I have looked at CH's flightstick and throttle, but 1) they're hard to get here in Holland and 2) I am undecided about the relevance of FFB on my next stick. In BS its very handy and in IL-2 (no reason not to expect their next game SOW to have FFB support as well) its nice as well (eventhough I dont have a FFB stick now) as I've experienced not too long ago at a friend's.

So I wonder wether CH's stick will have FFB.

 

I am also not really sure about the X65F having FFB either now that I think of it...

The pressure sensor stuff is another thing I am skeptical about as well, but I must see and feel first, before I make up my mind. :)

 

Like I said; difficult choices!

[Feuerfalke]

Well, I live in Germany and here are several resellers for CH gear, and this one is in Belgium: http://www.simw.com .

 

They also have quite fair prices.

 

As to TM, I'm not sure what that means or not. They even had official press-releases quite some time before the Cougar MFDs were released, so I won't hold my breath they'll have it ready for christmas, but if they have, that could be an argument for me to go for TM again. We'll see.

 

I honestly don't know about the force-feedback, though. Yes, it's handy for BS, it may be nice for IL2 and RoF, but my personal experience with it was not the best, so I can very well life without it. To be honest, I'd rather invest in a buttkicker, especially looking at the A-10C's GAU-8 ;)

[Yskonyn]

Yeah a buttkicker would be awesome if it would give the sensation of the GAU firing! :)

 

Nice find for the simshop there, Feuer. Thank you very much!

They also have a supposed release date for the X65F -> Feb 15th 2010, so that one is a little off still as well.

 

I guess we'll have to wait until somewhere into 2010;

-Then the durability tests of the G940 have been submitted by many users.

-TM, Saitek and possibly CH will come with a new HOTAS.

 

For now my trusty X52 has to behave a little longer it seems. :)

[CyBerkut]

So I wonder wether CH's stick will have FFB.

 

I am also not really sure about the X65F having FFB either now that I think of it...

The pressure sensor stuff is another thing I am skeptical about as well, but I must see and feel first, before I make up my mind. :)

 

Like I said; difficult choices!

 

 

CH has gone this long without making FFB controllers for consumers, so I'll be a bit surprised if they start now. If a government agency contracted with them for one, then I think there's a chance you would see it cross over in some form to the consumer products later.

 

On the Saitek X65F, all indications are that it is a force sensing stick, and not a force feedback stick. Barring a *REALLY* costly means of combining the two technologies (to allow selecting one or the other), it's highly unlikely you would ever see both FS and FFB combined in the same joystick controller. The basic premise of each method is incompatible with the other.

[Yskonyn]

Right, I am being thick here, sorry, because I remember now this was already said in a different thread as well.

 

FFB still seems to have the 'holywood effects' reputation among serious simmer and apparently, manufacturers.

Is that because the simulation of FFB is that bad or just because its hampered by its reputation due to a repeating circle?

 

I for one, would like to be able to feel the trim forces in BS, feel the buffet onset before a stall in an aircraft or feel the rumble of the guns in my stick when I fire. (I haven't actually flown a single virtual hour with a FFB mind you, just in real aircraft where feedback from the aircraft is also part of the sensory data collection the pilot does)

[Feuerfalke]

CH has gone this long without making FFB controllers for consumers, so I'll be a bit surprised if they start now.

 

I'm sorry, but that information is not entirely correct. Infact CH products was one of the first companies to build a decent force-feedback-joystick for simulations back in 1997: The CH Products Force FX.

 

 

It wasn't a big success, though, as a sophisticated usage of the features like BS does, was not on the market. But as CH always built their hardware pretty close to customers wishes, they simply dropped this feature.

 

Who knows, maybe they'll reintroduce it with the A-10C stick. It would be a valid point why they speak of a customers version of the HOTAS, not the split-throttle alone. Maybe they're redoing the Fighterstick after all, just this time with FFB.

 

We'll find out next year ;)

Edited November 17, 2009 by Feuerfalke

[CyBerkut]

I'm sorry, but that information is not entirely correct. Infact CH products was one of the first companies to build a decent force-feedback-joystick for simulations back in 1997: The CH Products Force FX.

 

Ah! I happily stand corrected. It's nice to see they have some history with FFB after all. If they were to decide to get into FFB again, that might prove to be valuable experience with the technology.

[Feuerfalke]

I hope so, too. Modern games offer a lot more for FFB-hardware, so they might reconsider that as an option. Infact offering the Fighterstick-model with and without force-feedback is probably a wise choice, as most of the hardware can probably still be used (esp. stick and buttons).

 

In either case: Interestings times ahead for us simulation-fans - if the hardware-manufacturers realized there's some sort of revival, that's definitely a good sign. :thumbup:

[Pilotasso]

Did you guys noticed that TM's A-10 Setup advertising suddenly disapeared from the site with no further mentions to it?

[Vekkinho]

I'm not very fond of FFB gear, Buttkicker's great - I've tried it over at my friend's house with NFS Shift as he's not very interested in flightsims we couldn't try it with LOFC/DCS. I might borrow it for a coulple of day to check LOFC but self centering FF gear like Logitech's g940 really doesn't ring my bell....I just hope Thrustmaster doesn't include any forcefeedback in their Hog HOTAS.

[Lucas_From_Hell]

FFB is a nice feature.

 

I can say my flying improved very much since I got a joystick with FFB.

 

Vekkinho, what do you mean by self-centering force feedback? Real aircraft's sticks are self-centering as well. I think it's wise to put FFB in the Hog HOTAS. If you guys dislike the FFB effects... well, is it THAT hard to turn FFB off :music_whistling:?

 

FFB just gives another feel for virtual flying. The problem is, some developers just put some arcadish effects, and it pretty much kills it, sometimes. I haven't tested it yet, but it seems that the G940's effects are more realistic.

 

I'll probably wait until next year to upgrade, because then we'll know about the durability of the G940, it's prices will probably be lower, and these new sticks will be available.

[lawndartleo]

FFB is just one of those things - you like it or you don't. I am in the I don't like it camp and I can tell you that A) turning it off never feels quite right and B) if TM goes the FFB route, they will be saving me money. It just means I 'll have the funds to purcahse a CH split throttle when it comes out.

[lawndartleo]

Did you guys noticed that TM's A-10 Setup advertising suddenly disapeared from the site with no further mentions to it?

 

They noticed the traffic it generated and started to fear that they may have to deliver a product on time at a reasonable price and acceptable level of quality.

[Feuerfalke]

ROFLOL

 

I saw that coming in Post #79. :music_whistling:

[159th_Viper]

.....and acceptable level of quality.

 

Hardly a Worry - In I J We Trust.......:thumbup:

 

:D

[lawndartleo]

I J?...

[lawndartleo]

I don't want to smack TM down but I had to spend another $300 to make my Cougar a good stick. They have great software and great styling but after that TM just left the Cougar to rot. The gimbals were horrid and a few enterprising people with the machines to make mods turned a pretty penny fabricating replacements. I don't think people are going to be fooled twice on this one. Unless it is something really special, I certainly wont be jumping at it.

 

On the other hand, I have a perfectly functional Pro Throttle and will cast it aside in an instant for a split model from CH products.

[159th_Viper]

I J?...

 

Designer and Builder of Uber II NXT.

[lawndartleo]

Read my previous post. How Ironic. I chose WhiteEagles FCC mod over the mechanical replacements. Force sensitive is phenomenal for Falcon 4.0 but in any other game it just doesn't work. That would be the primary reason why I think Saiteks new offering will be a dud.

[Yskonyn]

Read my previous post. How Ironic. I chose WhiteEagles FCC mod over the mechanical replacements. Force sensitive is phenomenal for Falcon 4.0 but in any other game it just doesn't work. That would be the primary reason why I think Saiteks new offering will be a dud.

 

How is that? The force sensing will be mainly a human -> stick interface, not a stick -> game interface, won't it?

[lawndartleo]

The stick does not move... at all. Its fixed in position and control surface defelction is proportional to force applied. This is how the controls work on the F-16 and I am sure a few of the more modern FBW fighters out there.

 

This just does not work for WW2 sims, at all, where concious awareness of control stick position is soo much a part of flying the aircraft. Try it and you will know what I mean.