Cheating

[Pilotasso]

No, its just you and a few others disagreeing with me giving you that feeling.

[Frostie]

For a veteran poster Pilotasso your showing a lot of naivety. Are you the OP do you have any correlation with the OP? I doubt it so what do you know about the OP's complaints and where they've come from?

 

Being as your here why don't you do something constructive and reveal the cheats (not exploits such as maddogging and blinking jammers) which bother you so much?

[104th_Crunch]

It has 60, plus 120 chaff. The problem is that you're using an ACMI to prove cheating, and the ACMI can in fact be inaccurate at times. You need a proper in-game track.

 

As for shift-q going berzerk, never heard of it or need it ...

 

 

Yes! I have seen it happen. Flares will continually get dumped after you are supposed to have run out using shift+q. I would have to see if I can find the details, but we had a player once with this issue. He explained to me that he had reinstalled LO trying to get rid of the issue and then we determined that shift+q was to blame. Not sure of the exact steps to repeat the bug but I'll see if I can duplicate it.

 

I think all the comments here by the 51st members and GG are really good especially in regard to LRM. So many people with accusations of cheating when they simply don't understand exactly what LRM does. Especially the fact that it disallows any scripts from being run except those specified in LRM itself.

 

The fact is, many people think someone is cheating when really they just don't understand what is going on, so cheating comes up. After helping to run the 169th server for a couple of years, the repeated false accusations of cheating was actually doing more harm then the amount of people actually cheating!

[104th_Crunch]

In Black Shark there are a number of anti-cheat features.

For those playing multiplayer Black Shark, have you discovered cheating?

 

Bump: Yes, it would excellent to get some feedback as to how these features are working.

[Pilotasso]

For a veteran poster Pilotasso your showing a lot of naivety. Are you the OP do you have any correlation with the OP? I doubt it so what do you know about the OP's complaints and where they've come from?

 

Being as your here why don't you do something constructive and reveal the cheats (not exploits such as maddogging and blinking jammers) which bother you so much?

 

 

Frostie before saying such things it would be best to clear your bias (or get a clue or both) before leading the conversation into a different territory.

 

Since when talking about LRM permeability to exploits and teamwork versus "teamwork" forces me to get proof of what we all know whats hapening online in order to get my point across?

Unless you think the SIM does allow exploits, cheats whatever but the whole of humanity is made up of immaculate virgins of honesty and play by the book. :)

 

 

Lets take this arround: Can you prove no one is exploiting with LRM, or that exploiters dont form up teams? (such was the discussion with case)

 

 

Also Im curious as to where you draw the line between a cheat and an exploit. Where does fair play stop and foulplay beggin?

Edited October 25, 2009 by Pilotasso

[Teknetinium]

Frostie before saying such things it would be best to clear your bias before leading the conversation into that territory.

 

Since when talking about LRM permeability to exploits and teamwork versus "teamwork" forces me to get proof of what we all know whats hapening online in order to get my point across?

Unless you think the SIM does allow exploits, cheats whatever but the whole of humanity is made up of immaculate virgins of honesty and play by the book. :)

 

 

Lets take this around: Can you prove no one is exploiting with LRM, or that exploiters dont form up teams? (such was the discussion with case)

 

 

Also Im curious as to where you draw the line between a cheat and an exploit. Where does fair play stop and foulplay beggin?

 

Neither u or Frostie can draw that line, its already done by ED, Play as the game is made, If u start draw lines as some have done, this kind of bullshit will come up. Where u think u are so much better because they are exploiters LOL. Spam ur aim-120/Et/77 make some crazy barrel rolls, fly under 10m(on our server ur radar stop working u have to be at 20m)( no one should accuse u for doing that.

 

We in 51st have lately been accused for cheating and exploiting LRM and so on, We are so tiered and sick of this bullshit when people dont understand how much we been flying together developing teamwork. Case was the one who made a small program preventing tacview cheats, so plz stop calling names and get ur shit together instead. So we in 51st can get some challenge.

 

This community is so small that we have to protect our reputation, if it was as big as IL we would probably just take it as komplimang.

Edited October 25, 2009 by Teknetinium

[Frostie]

Lets take this arround: Can you prove no one is exploiting with LRM, or that exploiters dont form up teams? (such was the discussion with case)

 

 

Also Im curious as to where you draw the line between a cheat and an exploit. Where does fair play stop and foulplay beggin?

I can't prove that anyone is not exploiting with LRM I hardly understand how it works but what I know to a degree are the limitations of the game, so for example if someone flew around a server at mach 4 in an organised fashion then I would conclude that this guy was cheating somehow, its common sense.

 

What I will not do is cry cheat if something doesn't immediately add up even though there is no clear evedience to say yeah or nay. The easy option that too many take is to cry foul. Believe me Pilotasso there were many that believed you were a compulsive cheater some 2 or 3 years ago, this simply being because of a lack of information and understanding of the game.

 

I have never said that there is no such thing as a cheat having seen the same occasion and similair of what Crunch witnessed and mentioned here.

 

Exploiting, as you see it is not cheating, your view of exploiting is an exploit of reality, this if you've noticed is a game. Yes its not nice and disrespectful of what this game tries to be but at the end of the day its not cheating.

Edited October 25, 2009 by Frostie

[Pilotasso]

]Neither u or Frostie can draw that line, its already done by ED, Play as the game is made

 

I hope you remenber that in the future. You can write this down.

 

If my bet holds you wont be accused of cheating much longer. ;)

 

 

We in 51st have lately been accused for cheating and exploiting LRM and so on, We are so tiered and sick of this bullshit when people dont understand how much we been flying together developing teamwork. Case was the one who made a small program preventing tacview cheats, so plz stop calling names and get ur shit together instead. So we in 51st can get some challenge.

 

This community is so small that we have to protect our reputation, if it was as big as IL we would probably just take it as komplimang.

 

I never called you names or accused you of cheating. What I did do was put up a famous thread some 2 years ago about ECM blinking and heat seekers maddog, wich you did. So now dont complain. Certainly Its not my fault you getting accused today. All I can say is that theres a saying here. he who seeds winds harvests storms.

 

I also ask you not to let this rule all your arguments. I already guessed what was on your and others minds, this post just confirms it.

Edited October 25, 2009 by Pilotasso

[Groove]

How about everybody calms down in this thread.

 

Use PMs or squadron's forums to debate accusations!

 

You guys exactly know we won't accept it here...

[MoGas]

It is amazing how we ended up after some nice years with lockon. People start too bitch on others after getting killed, "this must be cheater otherwise he would never got me" blablabla.......

 

I had this on myself as well for killing someone not so long ago, and it makes me sick as well.

 

-1 :mad:

[Laud]

I wonder how this thread came from talking about issues with the LUA to accusing individuals or squadrons to be cheaters...

 

I personally would like to know how one can prevent tools to be run on client computers with the aim of cheating (super-SA). Maybe without LRM?

 

In the LotATC-forums, DarkWanderer mentioned a way but didn't explain it too detailed. It was about changing some config files or something...

 

???

[GGTharos]

I wonder how this thread came from talking about issues with the LUA to accusing individuals or squadrons to be cheaters...

 

I personally would like to know how one can prevent tools to be run on client computers with the aim of cheating (super-SA). Maybe without LRM?

 

In the LotATC-forums, DarkWanderer mentioned a way but didn't explain it too detailed. It was about changing some config files or something...

 

???

 

 

Use LRM. ;)

[Laud]

It's a secret, heh???

 

;)

[GGTharos]

Not a secret if you use LRM *hint* ;)

[159th_Viper]

It's a secret, heh???

 

;)

 

 

 

 

Not a secret if you use LRM *hint* ;)

 

 

 

:P

[Pilotasso]

:poster_oops:

 

I have to humbly apologise everyone to have let myself get dragged into this again. As I feared.

 

Cheers.

[104th_Crunch]

The following is from the start of the LRM script in the export.lua file. If a script is not listed in this area in the server's copy of export.lua, then the client cannot run it! The cool thing about LRM is that the script is there for all to see. There are no secrets, and even if you do not know scripting, you can make out what's going on. Download a copy and have a look.

 

 

-- LRM 2.4X (:P version)

--ALSO includes tacview with permission from Virtouz

-- Tacview ACMI-Universal Flight Analysis Tool 0.93c

-- Export script for Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 1.1

-- Copyright © 2006-2009-Stra Software

-- See http://lomac.strasoftware.com/lomac-acmi.php for more info

do

Tacview = true

lotatc2 = true -- only runs on server end

G15support = true

StrobeLightsSupport = true

LockonpanelSupport = true

TouchbuddyExportSupport = true

Edited October 26, 2009 by Crunch

[volk]

It has 60, plus 120 chaff. The problem is that you're using an ACMI to prove cheating, and the ACMI can in fact be inaccurate at times. You need a proper in-game track.

 

As for shift-q going berzerk, never heard of it or need it ...

This is a serious statement. What does it mean? Do you have any tracks tacview, diverging with tracks LO? Does it mean that we can no trust tacview? And what about ACMI tracks writed by server?

[X-man]

This is a serious statement. What does it mean? Do you have any tracks tacview, diverging with tracks LO? Does it mean that we can no trust tacview? And what about ACMI tracks writed by server?

Thats right, ACMI are not always correct. This can be due to connection issues or packet loss where the clients does not receive all the correct data. For example, in large scale events like LOCERF or BSS, it's not uncommon to see player names switch with eachother, even between coalitions. Missile data can also be missed.

 

ACMIs can be used a little like lie-detectors, it can be used along tracks logs and eye witnesses, but not on it's own :)

[volk]

Thats right, ACMI are not always correct. This can be due to connection issues or packet loss where the clients does not receive all the correct data...

I think in this case you have not correct LO track too - if it ever will be playable track. But do you have different LO and tackview tracks? Can you share it?

[GGTharos]

WHat it means is, if you are going to accuse someone of cheating, have really good proof and have a clue as to whether you're seeing an actual cheat or lag or something else.

[X-man]

I think in this case you have not correct LO track too - if it ever will be playable track. But do you have different LO and tackview tracks? Can you share it?

 

No, the track uses different data so they can be different...

[volk]

No, the track uses different data so they can be different...

It's hard to believe it. Only the different tacview and LO tracks made by one machine can convince me that it's true.

WHat it means is, if you are going to accuse someone of cheating, have really good proof and have a clue as to whether you're seeing an actual cheat or lag or something else.

...The problem is that you're using an ACMI to prove cheating, and the ACMI can in fact be inaccurate at times. You need a proper in-game track

I think if I saw something abnormal playing ACMI (eg too many flares for MiG), this is real proof. And I saw it.

[GGTharos]

It's hard to believe it. Only the different tacview and LO tracks made by one machine can convince me that it's true.

 

It is true, but you can keep waiting for the one that convinces you. Actually ... the latest locerf ACMI shows PoleCat being teamkilled, when he wasn't - his attacker was a legitimate opponent ...

 

I think if I saw something abnormal playing ACMI (eg too many flares for MiG), this is real proof. And I saw it.

 

Sure, whatever. Track or it didn't happen, and that's only the beginning of the investigation.

 

I personally do not care to see everyone shouting 'cheat', and in order to reduce those voices shouting 'cheat' without a good reason, I, and probably many server admins, are willing to completely ignore cheating accusations that do not come with adequate proof.

 

The best thing is not just one track, but two, from different computers, and even better yet, a track from the accused.

[Udat]

I completely agree with Crunch (and the 51st guys and GG,) all the unfounded accusations of cheating is a much bigger problem than cheating itself.