Did it go unnoticed still? FC 2.0 upgrade will make LockOn and BS MP compatible!

[Pilotasso]

Rotors and wind generators and even cars can all be detected depending on the software filters you got onboard the radar processor.

[Vault]

There is an instance in one of the gulf wars where an F-15E detected and locked onto a landed Mi-8 from 50nm in air to air mode because of the spinning rotors. They then proceeded to hit it with a GBU (which hit after the helicopter took off, thus making it the first ever A2A kill with a GBU).

 

Mi-8? I thought it was a Hughes 500?.

[GGTharos]

I'm fairly certain it was a Mi-8. My memory could be failing me, but I don't think so in this case.

[Luse]

Question, Probably not going to be answered yet, but does this mean the FC2.0 Aircraft will be getting "tune-able" radios, such as those found in the Shark ?

[Vitesse2l]

Is it possible that DCS and FC2.0 will stay compatible as new DCS aircraft are produced?

 

Certainly seems an attractive scenario - We get the fabled 'Virtual Battlefield' with slightly updated Lomac aircraft and every nine months or so a new DCS product into the mix.

 

The 2.0 news is probably the best thing I've heard about in simming for a very long time. The mp aspect could be very special.

[miguez]

I'm fairly certain it was a Mi-8. My memory could be failing me, but I don't think so in this case.

 

You are correct, it was an Mi-8.

[Vault]

You are correct, it was an Mi-8.

 

http://128.121.102.226/aakill.html

[Speed_2]

Well, another thing that has me a little worried about this change is that I don't want the developer's desire keep compatability with Lock On to get in the way of improving realism and adding new features to DCS. DCS, while great, needs a massive laundry list of improvements, many of those in AI, interface, and mission structure, and that's not even mentioning some of the in-game realism that needs some tweaking. Those might be hard to integrate into Lock On as well. I guess it all depends on how similar the code is.

Edited November 19, 2009 by Speed_2

[EtherealN]

We will see pilots flying Ka50, pilot with DCS:A10 with lot of work, and pilots of A10 of LOMAC doing the same but quickier and easier?

 

Well...

 

FC2 Hog is A10A

DCS Hog is A10C

 

So a C pilot might have more stuff to learn, but he has a much more capable aircraft. ;)

 

As GG stated though, don't go too far into the future with speculations and fears. Remember that information on the A10C module for DCS is in the next year, not now. Such questions will most likely not be answered at this time because a lot of the time there just isn't an answer.

Edited November 19, 2009 by EtherealN
I fail at grammar

[S77th-konkussion]

From a pure multiplayer standpoint there is going to be a severe shock to the Black Shark pilots when they enter a LO server. There is no question of that. It is going to take some very careful mission construction in order to provide an adequate online experience for all pilots. Flight distances, terrain, and enemy composition are all going to be important factors. It might take some testing to get right, but I'm certainly open to experimentation. Players will have to adjust to having enemy jets in the theater of war. One interesting and possibly fun mission I see potential for the Ka-50 to do in a fighter/bomber world is to simply be a FAC or a lead scout for friendly CAS aircraft.

 

If the fear of A2A fighters in the area worries you, I wouldn't worry. There are bound to be Dedicated A2G servers. If the DFA server makes a comeback I can all but guarantee they will run Co-op or co-op like PvP missions with just the ground pounders.

 

Maybe here is a better place to ask, if I made a mission in BS, would it be compatible with FC 2.0? In that I create it in Black Shark and then open it in FC2.0 in order to make the needed changes?

 

Besides- you can't see sheet (medium distances) in lock on anyway.. :D

[element1108]

Well, another thing that has me a little worried about this change is that I don't want the developer's desire keep compatability with Lock On to get in the way of improving realism and adding new features to DCS. DCS, while great, needs a massive laundry list of improvements, many of those in AI, interface, and mission structure, and that's not even mentioning some of the in-game realism that needs some tweaking. Those might be hard to integrate into Lock On as well. I guess it all depends on how similar the code is.

 

There will always be improvements to be made, especially in AI. This will most likely be the last update from lockon, moving forward with dcs. But I looooooove the idea of fighters, mud movers and choppers all in one sim, fidelity aside it will make an a great addition to the lo series sooner rather than later. It will be 2, 3 years before we see integrated dcs modules that offer multiple jets of varying roles inside a combat environment.

 

This will tide me over until dcs hog that's for sure :)

[Speed_2]

There will always be improvements to be made, especially in AI. This will most likely be the last update from lockon, moving forward with dcs. But I looooooove the idea of fighters, mud movers and choppers all in one sim, fidelity aside it will make an a great addition to the lo series sooner rather than later. It will be 2, 3 years before we see integrated dcs modules that offer multiple jets of varying roles inside a combat environment.

 

This will tide me over until dcs hog that's for sure :)

 

Well, if this is the first and last major content patch for LO FC2, then that's bad news. If compatability with DCS is kept, and no new patches that add the DCS content into LO FC2 are created, then essentially DCS is in a feature-freeze as far as vital changes go. I see three possibilities:

1) DCS is only compatable with LO FC2 for the period of time before significant content for DCS is released

2) DCS goes into essentially a feature freeze (except for new aircraft)so it can keep compatability

3) DCS and LO FC2 will essentially be the same game, so any DCS changes will be easily and nearly effortless integrated into LO FC2.

Obviously, I hope 1) and preferably 3) is what is really going on. As DCS stands right now, I can't see how an A-10 module that included only a new aircraft and graphics updates would even be acceptable. As an example, the mission system and how flights are organized in DCS works well for Ka-50s, but I can't see it working too well for an A-10, and it would be totally unacceptable for, say, an F-15. Another example- you'd need ATC for a realistic A-10 sim, the ATC right now in DCS as I am familiar with it doesn't even do traffic control (correct me if I am wrong). MANY more examples exist, but to go over them would be going way off the topic of this thread.

Edited November 19, 2009 by Speed_2

[Chibawang]

If I may, I'd like to reply for Eagle Dynamics in the form of song:

 

When the road gets dark

And you can no longer see

Just let my love throw a spark

An' have a little faith in me

 

An' when the tears you cry

Are all you can can believe

Just give these loving arms a try, baby

An have a little faith in me

 

CHORUS:

 

Cause I've been loving you for such a long time, baby

Expecting nothing in return

Just for you to have a little faith in me

You see time, time is our friend

'Cause for us there is no end

All you gotta do is have a little faith in me (have a little faith)

 

:music_whistling:

 

 

 

Well, if this is the first and last major content patch for LO FC2, then that's bad news. If compatability with DCS is kept, and no new patches that add the DCS content into LO FC2 are created, then essentially DCS is in a feature-freeze as far as vital changes go. I see three possibilities:

1) DCS is only compatable with LO FC2 for the period of time before significant content for DCS is released

2) DCS goes into essentially a feature freeze (except for new aircraft)so it can keep compatability

3) DCS and LO FC2 will essentially be the same game, so any DCS changes will be easily and nearly effortless integrated into LO FC2.

Obviously, I hope 1) and preferably 3) is what is really going on. As DCS stands right now, I can't see how an A-10 module that included only a new aircraft and graphics updates would even be acceptable. As an example, the mission system and how flights are organized in DCS works well for Ka-50s, but I can't see it working too well for an A-10, and it would be totally unacceptable for, say, an F-15. Another example- you'd need ATC for a realistic A-10 sim, the ATC right now in DCS as I am familiar with it doesn't even do traffic control (correct me if I am wrong). MANY more examples exist, but to go over them would be going way off the topic of this thread.

[Speed_2]

All you gotta do is have a little faith in me (have a little faith)

 

:music_whistling:

 

Alright, since you put it nicely :) I guess what I was worried about was no different than any problems they might have with integrating various DCS modules, as it seems from the info released that LO FC2 can be viewed as a survey-sim addition to the DCS series...

Edited November 19, 2009 by Speed_2

[ZaltysZ]

Make no mistake, AFAIK FC 2.0 will be the very last update to the Lock On series, at least that is what i remember Wags saying.

 

I don't think that ED will go through the hassle to keep FC 2 up to date with all the DCS improvements after this.

 

What hassle? :) Of course, airplanes won't be improved anymore, but game engine very likely can be - after all, DCS has modular system and is supposed to be easily upgradable.

 

ГС2 это по сути дела Акула с выключенным летабельным вертолетом и включенными самолетами из ЛО.

 

Translation: In fact, FC2 is Black Shark with disabled flyable helicopter and enabled flyable planes from LockOn.

 

However, they still don't have complete conception (as they say) of compatibility. FC2 and BS will be compatible, but about A10 is too early to speak. The problem lies in slightly different worlds: BS is optimized for low altitude flying and FC2 will be optimized for higher altitude and greater viewing distance. Textures will be different too. It may become very difficult to maintain this differences when more DCS modules come out.

Edited November 19, 2009 by ZaltysZ

[Pilotasso]

Graphics can change but the SIM code parameters can be made the same. So its not graphics that will rule out the compatibility between the 2.

[Feuerfalke]

Graphics can change but the SIM code parameters can be made the same. So its not graphics that will rule out the compatibility between the 2.

 

It's not only about graphics.

 

Imagine the changes needed to make a two-seater like the Apache possible. That will probably involve at least a partially new netcode. At that part the latest, it's probably pointless to force the new development into a form that it is still compatible with LO.

 

I'm glad if both are compatible in the future as well, but I also see the consequences, so I can also live with DCS and LO going separate ways. Maybe LO will still profit from some of the upgrades - those that can be easily ported. Who knows. But at the moment all we know is that FC2 and BS will be online-compatible and that's just fine with me.

 

If things change someday in the future, it's early enough to discuss the facts then.

[Zorg_DK]

How much will Flaming Cliffs 2.0 cost if I don't own Flaming Cliffs? Will the current version be updated, so I don't have to pay for it two times?

[Inseckt]

It's not only about graphics.

 

Imagine the changes needed to make a two-seater like the Apache possible. That will probably involve at least a partially new netcode. At that part the latest, it's probably pointless to force the new development into a form that it is still compatible with LO.

 

I'm glad if both are compatible in the future as well, but I also see the consequences, so I can also live with DCS and LO going separate ways. Maybe LO will still profit from some of the upgrades - those that can be easily ported. Who knows. But at the moment all we know is that FC2 and BS will be online-compatible and that's just fine with me.

 

If things change someday in the future, it's early enough to discuss the facts then.

 

Perhaps when it is no longer possible to have compability, and LO is finally left behind by ED, maybe they will release the sourcecode? That would definatley prolong the potential lifespan of LO series, driven on by a dedicated community... I remember this was discussed several times before, allthough I can't remember the conclusion.

Unless they are tied by the fact that original LO is owned by UBI...

 

but sure, the future... I'll be there...

[Feuerfalke]

AFAIK LO belongs to UBISOFT.

 

But in either case, if both titles are no longer online compatible that doesn't mean FC has to be discontinued. ;)

[GGTharos]

Perhaps when it is no longer possible to have compability, and LO is finally left behind by ED, maybe they will release the sourcecode?

 

Not a snowballs chance in hell. Everyone wants the source code. Not going to happen, regardless of who owns the code, AFAIK.

[EtherealN]

Remember that the source-code has a relationship to source code used for military products, so even if a commercial product were to be discontinued there might be excellent reason to keep the code under wraps.

 

Although it is slightly amusing to see speculation about what will befall the source code for LO when it "is finally left behind" right after ED announces a new a big update to the product. :P

[-Bazong-]

This is excellent news! A great way to keep their product line together until we get some planes in DCS!! :thumbup:

 

Very good move I thinks! Allthough I'll probably stick to my chopper, I'll definetly enjoy a richer online environment..

[Feuerfalke]

Although it is slightly amusing to see speculation about what will befall the source code for LO when it "is finally left behind" right after ED announces a new a big update to the product. :P

 

 

LOL - that's what I thought.

 

Some really are masters in wanna-be-unhappyness. :doh: :P

 

 

@-Bazong-:

 

True.

 

I'm personally looking forward to see the masses of high-flying invincible Ka-50s living through some hard times finally meeting a realistic WW3-like scenario with active enemy airforces overhead. :D

Edited November 19, 2009 by Feuerfalke

[S77th-konkussion]

Although it is slightly amusing to see speculation about what will befall the source code for LO when it "is finally left behind" right after ED announces a new a big update to the product. :P

 

Maybe if they write a letter to Santa.. sheesh..