Wings Of Prey

[Total]

As has been stated several times, it's a good foundation. It will be fun to see where they go with it.

 

Are the FM's dead on accurate? Nope.

Are IL-2's FM's dead on accurate? Nope, but closer than WoP.

 

WoP used the basic FM's from IL-2 as it's foundation. The biggest difference is that WoP uses a different engine than IL-2, so many of the parameters from the IL-2 FM's did not correlate directly. The developers released 10 updates in 25 days based on community feedback and bug reports, so they're working dilligently at getting it "sim worthy" for all of us picky sim-heads. :D

 

In the case of WoP, it's looking at the potential for a polished FM instead of expecting it to be there at the start. If we expected that out of combat flight sims, then I doubt any of us would have stuck with LockOn or IL-2 from the very onset as there were many things that have been worked out in the FM's over time since the release of both.

 

I'm not saying anyone should just bow down and accept it as a sim because it has a simulator mode in it. We should at least give it a shot though to see if they can make a good sim out of it. The engine appears to have the capability.

Edited January 2, 2010 by Total

[Total]

I finally got IL-2 Sturmovik 1946 working with my Win 7 64bit install.

 

Before I got it working, I knew there were differences in the behavior of the planes between WoP and IL-2, but I couldn't quite place it on memory alone. So, I decided to take a plane common between the two games, make a video of the same maneuvers in each, and splice them together so I could watch it myself :megalol:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPuXvo4DSmg

 

As it turns out, alot of the differences are via a heap of small things in IL-2 that add up to a feel of more complex experience and believable control over the aircraft. This was just a very simple comparison.

 

• Max speed at full throttle and level flight below 500ft altitude
  
• Turn radius before start of blackout effect
  
• Turn stall speed with one wing below the other
  
• Possibility of stall recover if below 500 ft altitude
  
• Vertical climb rate at full throttle and max speed from approximately 200ft altitude
  
• Max altitude of climb
  
• Lowest speed at pinnacle of climb
  

Unfortunately, both games have the speed & altitude info on the left side.

 

I was actually suprised when I spliced the two videos together. While the two games definitely feel different, the parameters were very close to one another. I started figuring out that the enviromental detail and cockpit scaling of each game was part of it. The shudder effect in IL-2 is another main effect that is missing from WoP.

 

One thing that IL-2 does do that WoP does not is warn the pilot of an oncoming stall. This is actually a one up for WoP since a WWII sim should not have any sort of stall warning. But,t hat visual warning was a carry over from the very early days of IL-2 when the flight models and graphics were not what they became after years of development and patching.

 

Overall, WoP has the IL-2 foundation. If the WoP dev's can get the shudder effects and the pre-stall counter rotation implemented, then that will dbe a great step towards more believability in flight :)

[EtherealN]

One thing that IL-2 does do that WoP does not is warn the pilot of an oncoming stall. This is actually a one up for WoP since a WWII sim should not have any sort of stall warning. But,t hat visual warning was a carry over from the very early days of IL-2 when the flight models and graphics were not what they became after years of development and patching.

 

Well, that depends really. In real life you'll usually be able to feel yourself entering a stall regime, which simply is not available for "simulation" in IL-2. You can proxy it a bit through visualizing shakes and doing such stuff, but you still don't approach the same level of warning as a real pilot would have simply through being buckled up in the real thing. So while you wouldn't have the equivalent of a bitching betty or stall warning tone/light as you may have in a modern aircraft, you would have all kinds of sensory input ranging from how the stick feels, vibration and so on.

[Lucas_From_Hell]

I thought that "Stall!" on IL-2 only popped in AFTER you stalled.

 

Never paid attention to it, anyway. Force Feedback does the trick for me.

[Total]

It pops up at the very onset of the stall. You can still get out of it at that point if you're paying attention. After years and years of playing Il-2 though, I had actually forgotten about the stall warning until I was making this video. Just one of those things you get used to and eventually don't need as you gain a feel for the sim itself.

 

I see your point EtherealN and I do agree :) Like I said though, that stall warning is something I haven't really paid attention to in years.

 

As far as FFB, if Saitek makes an X52 series with FFB, then I'd have am FFB stick that I actually liked lol!

[theGozr]

Ok here something for you guys.. If you want to fly aircrafts with better FM it's simple .. Only the Su25's on Lockon is worth it the rest are scripted as max as it can be witch made me give up on Lockon aircrafts beside the Su25.. The rest are laughable . Now Condor is great for the FM and Rise of Flight coming very close and still getting better at it Il2 come in third position. If Lockon would have been updated on regular bases as it should of been and adding for example a 3D cockpit to the Su25/T/TM, the sales and pleasure would of been the best. But sadly they missed the train on that one, now they did a good sim with a mediocre K50 combat Helicopter that do not have an adversary... :( ( hopefully flaming Cliff 2.0 will bring what many need )

 

Wings of Prey wasn't design to be a Sim it's missing many parameters as well as lockon aircrafts( beside the Su25 ).. I know you don't want to read this but it's true. I really hope that Flaming Cliff 2.0 will fill the gap that it always missed because riding a MiG29 or a F15 as it is now is a nightmare ..

So if you think Flaming Cliff Mig-29, SU27,33 or F15 are good you will like WoP.. but don't full yourselves..

 

I made a quick video of a small flight.

 

Now i repeat WOP 's FM is horrible for a Sim but great for a Game as ARMA2 for example many can have fun for sure and it is what a game is suppose to do ..

Edited January 2, 2010 by theGozr

[diveplane]

I finally got IL-2 Sturmovik 1946 working with my Win 7 64bit install.

 

Before I got it working, I knew there were differences in the behavior of the planes between WoP and IL-2, but I couldn't quite place it on memory alone. So, I decided to take a plane common between the two games, make a video of the same maneuvers in each, and splice them together so I could watch it myself :megalol:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPuXvo4DSmg

 

As it turns out, alot of the differences are via a heap of small things in IL-2 that add up to a feel of more complex experience and believable control over the aircraft. This was just a very simple comparison.

 

• Max speed at full throttle and level flight below 500ft altitude
  
• Turn radius before start of blackout effect
  
• Turn stall speed with one wing below the other
  
• Possibility of stall recover if below 500 ft altitude
  
• Vertical climb rate at full throttle and max speed from approximately 200ft altitude
  
• Max altitude of climb
  
• Lowest speed at pinnacle of climb
  

Unfortunately, both games have the speed & altitude info on the left side.

 

I was actually suprised when I spliced the two videos together. While the two games definitely feel different, the parameters were very close to one another. I started figuring out that the enviromental detail and cockpit scaling of each game was part of it. The shudder effect in IL-2 is another main effect that is missing from WoP.

 

One thing that IL-2 does do that WoP does not is warn the pilot of an oncoming stall. This is actually a one up for WoP since a WWII sim should not have any sort of stall warning. But,t hat visual warning was a carry over from the very early days of IL-2 when the flight models and graphics were not what they became after years of development and patching.

 

Overall, WoP has the IL-2 foundation. If the WoP dev's can get the shudder effects and the pre-stall counter rotation implemented, then that will dbe a great step towards more believability in flight :)

 

nice job.

[Ramstein]

I just tried the WOP Demo. It's ARCADE!

:(

[diveplane]

I just tried the WOP Demo. It's ARCADE!

:(

 

lol

[element1108]

I think for the demo you have to complete the training and it will open up "simulator" setting. That's what happened for the console version anyway. I know nothing about the PC demo.

[theGozr]

Not on PC

[therion_prime]

Now i repeat WOP 's FM is horrible for a Sim but great for a Game as ARMA2 for example many can have fun for sure and it is what a game is suppose to do ..

 

I cannot say that WoP's flightmodel is different to IL2. And I played IL2 a LOT.

 

Even the radiator and mixture are mappable to an axis which IL2 did not have.

 

Try to swith off auto-proppitch in a 109 and increase RPMs over 3000 and the engine will die. Not even FSX has this much fidelity!

 

And, btw. most youtube videos are arcade mode.

 

So stop bashing WoP please.

[Chibawang]

Quite right, well said.

 

So stop bashing WoP please.

[theGozr]

You guys are smocking something weird.. FM are simplified period witch was made this way for a good reason. It's IL2 simplified with better rendering and textures and shadesr witch is perfect for a game for people that do not need a simulator ..

I think it's a great starting level for a variety of people that are afraid to get involved into hard core Siming.

 

So yes WoP is great for what it is.

 

therion_prime: You apparently don't know much about FSX .

The quick video i made wasn't arcade.

[theGozr]

Here a review with the same idea.

 

1. Game is $49.95 takes 8 hours to d/l or Torrent.

 

2. There is an extra YuPlay application

 

3. YuPlay will sell you better downloading speed so you can get the latest update (they've gone from 1.0.2.1 to 1.0.2.5 just since I've owned it). For all the gnashing of teeth about he ROF/Neoqb online business model, this one takes the cake. Now, if I want to spend less time d/l this companies products (which I've already paid for) - they will sell me the bandwidth. What a bunch of horse-dung.

 

4. So these guys have taken Il2 and pretty much re-written it, using critical components that would have taken a monstrously long time to create from scratch (that's why it's taken Oleg so long with SOW). They've really stripped it down to a much more efficient structure in terms of graphics, and interface. They have also removed quite a bit of the flight physics calculations and precision.

 

5. Now, this FM/DM/Ballistics stripped product has been compiled for PC and seems to be in the process of re-development. I've spent some time over at their site - they have a "wish/want-list" similar to the "wish/want list" in ROF.

 

To not completely cast a negative light on all this - for a DirectX 9.0 game (yes, believe it or not it's DX 9.0 just like ROF) - the graphics are superb, if not a little to cartoony for my tastes. The graphics are extremly fast too! Loading times are just phenomal at every stage of the game.

 

This however, is truely a game, at this time. Even in simulator mode. I now completely understand why ROF takes up so much memory, bandwidth and CPU. IT'S THE PHYSICS!!!!

 

Taking a look this week, at the Il2-46 Ultrapack - and flying some new and old offline missions - there is no comparison between these products, in terms of cost/quality for combat simulation (as opposed to gaming).

 

WOP has only a fraction of the quality aircraft that are currently in Il2 (stock or modded). With only a fraction of the Physics - this makes for a more of a "Big Mac and Fries" versus "Full Course Meal" type of experience, after the first two hours or so you spend with the product.

 

I hope that WOP becomes a serious sim - it does have potential. However, I don't have enough time or resources to devote to more than one "developmental" product like this and ROF is very, very far along when compared to this product.

 

In the end, the ball rests with Oleg. When did it not? Unless the WOP team really kicks it in to high gear quickly, the best thing you'll be able to say about the product is that it helped fund SOW.

 

I really believe that we've really seen a much bigger thing here. When BOP was being developed, the "Great White Hope" for some was that the console community might be brought into the "hard core simulation" community. That in essence, the ease of owning a console, provided that there was a sim product for them, would go far in expanding the user community.

 

That concept has been dashed on the rocks. The current state of Xbox/Playstation III is simply that their users cannot play online against each other nor with/against each other in PC software. My Son and Nephew both have PS3's and their both older than 20. I could not give them BOP for the PS3. Market's not there. Interconnectivity is not there.

 

So, in summary the Console's as simulators flopped terribly. This is why Wings of Prey is back over here. It's where the market actually is. It's a much, much different market though - more about substance and less about flash

 

S~

TX-Gunslinger

[tflash]

Seems like WoP is exactly what I'm looking for! I play IL2 only as a game, just for fun, not even in full realism settings; I have other titles for that.

 

I will give it a try soon!

[theGozr]

Yes i think you will love it .

[Feuerfalke]

It's definitely a nice game - just tried it for a while. Nice missions, sounds and graphics, but it's a game, not a simulation like IL2. The damage-model, for example, is mostly visually. The only thing that happens is, that the more damage you take, the slower you go until you eventually are too slow. Maneuverability is not or only minimal influenced. Even if you have a big whole in the wing, it won't lose lift.

 

At the same time ballistics and most other effects are limited to visual effects as well, bullets behave like on "easy gunnery"-setting on IL2. I shot down 22 He-111 in the first campaign-mission, until I got bored and quit the mission.

 

And the Spit Mk2 - LOL - I'll never ever complain about the '44s Spits in IL2 any more... :music_whistling:

 

Again, a nice and fun game, with a lot of nice graphics effects, but it rather relates to IL2 like HAWX does to Falcon4.

[Chibawang]

Again, a nice and fun game, with a lot of nice graphics effects, but it rather relates to IL2 like HAWX does to Falcon4.

 

While I understand your argument, I can't agree with that analogy. I think a more fair one would be WoP is to IL2, as LOMAC is to Falcon 4(or better yet, LOMAC is to DCS, all things considered..), but on these forums that hits closer to home, and is no doubt harder to swallow...

 

WoP may not match everyone's ideal (which is virtually impossible anyway), but I absolutely cannot stand to see fellow flight simmers turning up their noses at developers who try to narrow the gap between mainstream gamers and ourselves. How quickly we forget how closely true commercial flight simulation came to extinction! Ace Combat completely abandoned any shred of simulation and HAWX rocketed even further into the realm of absolute fantasy, complete with twin afterburners on an A-10A model and other ridiculous flash. Products such as WoP that atleast attempt to offer something for everyone should be praised for trying to reclaim the younger demographic that has been led astray by lazy, unambitious developers only seeking to line their pockets, and also for showing respect to the average consumer's intelligence, whether warranted or not. Bashing and shunning new titles because you prefer the severely aged classics only serves to turn off newcomers and further marginalize the genre.

 

Ok, end rant. Oh, and this was not directed at you, Feuerfalke. I hope it didn't come across that way, it's just something that's been irking me for a long time.

[Feuerfalke]

No worries - as I posted above (several times in the meanwhile) I think that WoP is a good game. It just doesn't make much sense to claim that WoP will replace IL2 or threaten SoW. Comparing apples and oranges, as both games differ in many core elements. Nobody will be hurt by WoP and if it does have any effect on the simulation market, it's most likely a positive one, as it fills the gap between Battlefield 1942 or 1943 and IL2, just like LockOn fills the gap between BF2 or ArmA2 and the DCS-series.

 

If you play IL2 just for fun and like to play on dogfight-servers, WoP maybe right for you, if you prefer full realism, wait for SoW.

 

I made my decision, but it's not a general judgment.

 

 

Btw: I didn't choose the Falcon4 vs LockOn thing for a reason, but indeed, LockOn and DCS is probably a much better example than mine. :)

[Lucas_From_Hell]

We get you, Chibawang.

 

Our comments are based on our hardcore pilot experience, so in our heads its more arcadish.

 

Feuerfalke, calling it HAWX to Falcon 4 is very exaggerated, but putting it as Lock On is to DCS is raising its level too much.

 

It's just too dramatic, cinema-style, with all the music, fancy graphics and everything else. Stunning, really. But not quite there yet. The thing is, it wasn't made to be there. Actually, it's quite good for its category. We're judging it as a high-level badass simulator where you need to flick switches all around, but it isn't in that level, and wasn't made to be.

 

Well, next year we'll have Wings of Prey, with some updates and mostly bug-free, for the more casual World War II simmers, or players in a transition stage, and Storm of War for us "realism til the last breath" folks. I hope we drag some guys from the useless FPS road to our community.

 

By the way, folks, please check if you voted for Best Game of 2009 on VE3D. DCS is losing for that zombie killing game, that's unfair!

[159th_Viper]

....By the way, folks, please check if you voted for Best Game of 2009 on VE3D. DCS is losing for that zombie killing game, that's unfair!

 

Weird Battle that......Shark vs Corpse :D

 

Be that as it may, Win or Lose, the Exposure Generated to date and Beyond I Dare Say has been Priceless.....So one could Argue that, although we might be in Danger of Losing the Battle, the War has already been Won by DCS.

[theGozr]

Well Lucas this is a good reminder i went and voted and spayed the word. Even if we complain about many things we will not let DCS loose.

 

We can argue for hours in very different subjects, experiences etc.. but at the end we all want the best Sim for us.

[Chibawang]

No worries - as I posted above (several times in the meanwhile) I think that WoP is a good game. It just doesn't make much sense to claim that WoP will replace IL2 or threaten SoW.

 

I admit, I haven't read the entirety of this thread. Someone actually said WoP will replace SoW? Ridiculous! People are so afraid of developers going under these days, when anyone tries to do anything remotely similar to their favorite franchise they lash out in defense however possible. I think most don't realize that there is ALOT of breathing room in the sim market right now and competition will benefit everyone, to a certain point anyway.

[element1108]

Finally got my controls working in proper order. Much better experience indeed. I flew online last might in a "simulation" server. I flew 190 d12 against primarily 262's and mustangs. It's funny with jets in a ww2 setting you have speed as such an advantage but these guys were forgetting that and getting mixed up in turning fights. I got called a cheater a few times because I kept shooting down the jets (they would stall out while in a verticle turn fight) but I was able to maintain control.

 

Word of advice to 262 users. Speed is life so read up on boom and zoom. Also 262 couldn't take much punishment, the jet engines were very easy to damage and a slow jet plane is a dead one, even against prop planes.

 

Had a good time, a nice little bridge until SOW.