Mission Planning

[Killjoy12]

After opening a mission, are you supposed to click the mission editor to do mission planning, or does that reveal too much information about targets, location, etc? I'm not entirely sure where the mission planning is done, with a map and such and the ability to modify the waypoints.

[Frederf]

Mission planning is not DCS's strong suit. A good mission with have a good text brief with some JPGs 3-4 pages and a good waypoint layout. Without this you can quickly scribble a new plan into the ABRIS when you are on the ground before you fly (if there's time) or you have to basically rewrite (edit) the mission to have more control which has the side effect of seeing the mission guts.

[Killjoy12]

Thanks. I agree, it is limited then.

[Prophet4no1]

It would be nice to be able to change loadouts in the briefing screen.

[CAT_101st]

that it would be.

[Haukka81]

Yeah, Mission planning really needs some work.. i hope that devs will upgrade it in next patch..

 

 

-haukka81

[Eddie]

It won't be a patch thing. The devs have already said a that mission planning screen and weapon selection screen are on their on "wish list" for DCS, but something as large as this would be part of a future module rather than a patch most likely.

 

I doubt we'll see any such things added in A-10C, but of course we don't know yet.

 

Most people are waiting for the above features so it's all been added to the wish list thread many times. Hopefully it'll come in the next module after A-10C, whatever that may be.

[Prophet4no1]

Why would a loadout or flight plan editing be such a huge ordeal? It should be pretty easy to add via patch. Since the planning phase and flight take place in two separate applications, I'm guessing that the launcher tells the DCS.exe what to load up. So, patch the "launcher" with a few added screens for load outs and map editing. That way you can maprk a few extra map points ahead of time, rather than on the pad/tarmac. Once you hit the fly button all of that data gets sent to the DCS.exe just like normal and you are ready to fly.

 

Besides, if it's on the DEV wishlist, it should be near the top of there to do list. It's one of those fundimental basics of sim/real flying. By the time a pilot comes out of briefing, the flightplan has at least a fwe alterations and a possible change on loadout. While they finish suiting up, the new flightplan and loadout are loaded up for them. Or at least a new mission casset is set up for the pilot to plug in, in the case of some aircraft.

[Eddie]

Why would a loadout or flight plan editing be such a huge ordeal? It should be pretty easy to add via patch. Since the planning phase and flight take place in two separate applications, I'm guessing that the launcher tells the DCS.exe what to load up. So, patch the "launcher" with a few added screens for load outs and map editing. That way you can maprk a few extra map points ahead of time, rather than on the pad/tarmac. Once you hit the fly button all of that data gets sent to the DCS.exe just like normal and you are ready to fly.

 

Besides, if it's on the DEV wishlist, it should be near the top of there to do list. It's one of those fundimental basics of sim/real flying. By the time a pilot comes out of briefing, the flightplan has at least a fwe alterations and a possible change on loadout. While they finish suiting up, the new flightplan and loadout are loaded up for them. Or at least a new mission casset is set up for the pilot to plug in, in the case of some aircraft.

 

 

Game developer are we? Well send ED your plan on how they can implement such a feature with a simple patch and I'm sure they'll do it ;). Now I'm in no way a programmer but I do recognise that there is no such thing as just adding a few new screens, their would be a fair amount of coding to be done in the background as well. There is an awful lot of stuff that the communtiy/ED themsleves want to add to DCS, it's going to take time and we need to have patience.

 

By the time a pilot comes out of briefing, the flightplan has at least a fwe alterations and a possible change on loadout. While they finish suiting up, the new flightplan and loadout are loaded up for them. Or at least a new mission casset is set up for the pilot to plug in, in the case of some aircraft.

 

Actualy IRL it's the pilots who produce their flight plans in the first place after/during the briefing phase, as well as add threat and additional map data (such as FLOT, kill boxes etc). They then load this onto their brick with they then plug into the jet on the ramp on every aircraft type I've worked on/come into contact with.

 

As for a loadout screen, well actually IRL pilots themselves have essentially no input in what weapons they will carry for a specific mission. These things are decided at command level to comply with many factors including RoE & desired effect on target. Just because a certain weapon would be the most effective for a specific target, doesn't nessesarily mean that it would be available. Of course, this being a computer game we can and do have such luxuries. But again we need to have patience, it'll come. :D

[Bucic]

You know, linux guys has this obsession of making every piece of software svg export capable. DCS could use that IMO. DCS map looks like scalable (not a bitmap), not to mention waypoints and routs. So given that SVG is basicaly just txt file with geometrical data DCS->SVG could happen. Then one could export any map+waypoint views as he pleases, add notes, print black-white etc. Symbol library could be added easily. No drawing skills needed (I know what I'm talking about).

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b4/VectorBitmapExample.png

http://www.inkscape.org/screenshots/gallery/inkscape-0.44-lithuania.png

 

Either this or proper briefing :P There are mil geeks out there who know as much as real soldiers. It's a question for them - does DCS debriefing really lacks or does a DCS BS pilot has everything on the table and a statistical DCS pilot just don't know how to use it all. If so a simple "workflow list" (what task a pro briefing is comprising of) would deal with it once and for all.

Edited January 14, 2010 by Bucic

[EtherealN]

Prophet, it definitely is not just a case of coding a few extra pages in launcher.exe. It would most likely need some of the functions in the mission editor, but deny certain others, and depending on how that is currently implemented this might mean either re-writing those almost from scratch to get a separate implementation or completely restructuring the mission editor and it's underlying libraries. That is quite some distance away from coding a few graphics routines to paint a map.

 

Then you add the costs in Q/A, since you need to ensure that what you've done has not had a negative impact on anything else that uses the same libraries (campaign engine, mission engine, mission editor, track playback, ABRIS information transfer, PVI-800 information placement, etcetera). This is why some features may seem "small", yet don't end up getting done in a hurry anyway - because the collateral damage may be disproportionate.

 

In my experience it is interesting to note how the phrace "pretty easy to add in a patch" repeatedly crops up and almost always it's a non-programmer that utters it. Nothing is ever "pretty easy" in development of a complex software product, especially when modifying an existing codebase rather than adding the feature to the original plan and thereby having it in mind before a single line of code was ever written.

[Prophet4no1]

Looks like I ruffled a few feathers. Not my intention. I was just stating my thoughts from how I see things. Does not mean I'm right.

[Frederf]

I think the most straightforward way that involves the least amount of new work would be to add a "filtered-mode" to the existing mission editor to achieve a mission planner.

 

Right now the problem with the ME is how it lets us see/edit too much. A special mode of the ME with limited visibility and editing ability would be in-line with a mission planner function. On top of that a few extra helper tools/scripts might be available to make the MP mode more casual and easy than the ME is for certain edits.

 

And while we're at it the briefing text/images should be able to be called up mid-flight perhaps as an optional layer of the F10 screen. The fact I don't have a copy of brief in-flight is duuuuumb.

[Wags]

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=49282

[Grimes]

Great to see that has finally made it in and all I have to say is that last paragraph is made of epic win. As always a few questions :D

 

1. Can you lock out certain weapons in general from being used in a specific mission? Either from a per pylon basis or a blanket disallowing of weapons. (for 80s payloads, stuff like that)

 

2. Can you lock-down flight paths or make specific waypoints "required" as in you can't move WP x, but other waypoints are fair game?

 

3. Can multiple default routes be saved into the mission file? Like for a Su-25t have seperate SEAD, CAS, and Ground Attack routes for the aircraft.

 

4. Can one player makes a flight WPs and other players can access that info without having to make their own?

 

5. Will changed WP data be reset to default once the player dies/leaves the server? I've noticed weapons/tail number dont change in multiplayer for lockon. I joined a F15 slot once and one of the fuel tank pylons had an amraam on it, while none of the other f15 slots had loped payloads.

[Killjoy12]

That was quick!

 

 

Seriously - great news! Will this also make it into Black Shark as well?

[Eddie]

Thanks for the update Wags and EB. I've got to say I really wasn't expecting this feature to be added so soon, but it's fantastic that it'll be here for the A-10C.

 

Killjoy12, obviously I'm just speculating, but if it is going to be in A-10C I'm pretty sure they'll add it to BS when they release whatever patch they have in the plan to keep the DCS series compatible.

[Cyb0rg]

FC2 will feature the much requested Mission Planner interface. This is an item we've been planning for quite a long time and we are happy to be able to include it in FC2. The Mission Planner will be available from the Briefing menu. It will be a simplified version of the Mission Editor, showing only those units not hidden by the mission designer and allowing the player to edit the flight route (excluding take-off and landing points) and payloads/fuel/skins.

 

One big step in the right direction! :pilotfly:

[Frederf]

I think the most straightforward way that involves the least amount of new work would be to add a "filtered-mode" to the existing mission editor to achieve a mission planner.

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=49282

 

Ok... that's creepy. Don't do that! :helpsmilie:

[Eddie]

Indeed Frederf. You haven't been peaking through ED's windows have you?

[Wags]

We did not at all do based on anyone's post, it's something that has been loooooong planned.

[Frederf]

Yeah I figure it was coincidental more than causal. In hindsight it is something that's needed and it's no wonder that both parties thought of it separately. It's just really close timing between me saying something and the announcement of the long-planned implementation.

 

Also I only look into ED's windows in the company shower rooms!

[EtherealN]

It was still spooky. :P

 

I actually squirted coffee through my nose when the announcement came through right after I had been trying to explain why such a feature might take longer than some people anticipate - and there it is! :D

[zdXu]

In hindsight it is something that's needed and it's no wonder that both parties thought of it separately.

You need a tool to change waypoints? You need a tool to change the payload? WOw.

I totaly disagree. There is an ABRIS & PVI-800 to change waypoints and there are ground-crew-commands to change payloads. IMO this is a waste of time. But maybe here it's different for the FC-community. Dont know that.

 

They better should give us some additions to the ME, some waypoint-flags, cancel the flag-limits etc.

[Cyb0rg]

You need a tool to change waypoints? You need a tool to change the payload? WOw.

I totaly disagree. There is an ABRIS & PVI-800 to change waypoints and there are ground-crew-commands to change payloads. IMO this is a waste of time. But maybe here it's different for the FC-community. Dont know that.

 

They better should give us some additions to the ME, some waypoint-flags, cancel the flag-limits etc.

 

You still be able to change payloads and WPs inside the pit (actually not sure if make sense the payloads) but what we'll have is a true briefing session, (not just text and pictures), where you can plan with more detail your mission. Priceless! :D