If I can fly the chopper in this game, does it mean I can do it in real life too?

[Meltdown16]

Was just wondering about this. Surely the real helicopter would be more difficult to fly?

[sobek]

Short answer: No. You would have a headstart though, especially on procedures.

 

Getting the thing in the air is different, if not for anything else, then at least because your life is really at stake if you screw up in the real helo and coping with that stress and developing the confidence to do it without effort takes time and practice.

[EtherealN]

Well, it depends. Someone that has never flown a real aircract would face difficulties even if they are very good with the simulator, but an experienced pilot would be able to use it for initial conversion training.

 

Though, to be honest, most aircraft are relatively simple to "fly". The bread and butter of a pilot and his education is his ability to solve the more difficult moments, like landings, adverse weather, damaged control systems and so on. The hard work is always to make your gut fly the aircraft with you, so that you feel what the aircraft is doing and respond appropriately - and you can't train for this in a desktop simulator, sadly.

[goldfinger35]

It is like asking:

If I can drive some car in a game (Grad Turismo, for example), does it mean I can do it in real life too?

[goon3r]

It is like asking:

If I can drive some car in a game (Grad Turismo, for example), does it mean I can do it in real life too?

 

You mean like this guy ?

http://history.fiagt.com/newsitem.php?key=2285

 

I'm sure he was a good real life driver apart from playing GT, but can a simulator supplement real training ? Certainly.

[EtherealN]

Not quite, goldfinger. DCS:BS will prepare you better for how the aircraft will behave than Gran Turismo will prepare you for how a car will behave.

 

As an example there have been tests run by british aviation authorities where they switched to mainly desktop simulator training for glider pilots, and they were able to allow students to do their first solo flight after as little as 5 real flights instead of the more normal 20-25. It's not a replacement for an instructor, but when properly handled it is a very powerful complement to the real thing in learning to fly.

[EtherealN]

AussieFX, I have not said anything contrary to that. I'll quite myself: "an experienced pilot would be able to use it for initial conversion training."

[GGTharos]

A slightly convoluted answer:

 

You flew the helicopter in BS like a REAL pilot would, ie. with the same restrictions on maneuvering and on board equipment use, then you'd have a good chance of hopping into the real thing and after a few training flights, being able to fly it right.

 

If you flew the sim however the heck you please, without knowing/caring for/following actual pilot techniques and restrictions, you'd quickly kill yourself, no matter how good you flew it in the sim.

 

Was just wondering about this. Surely the real helicopter would be more difficult to fly?

[empeck]

I had a chance to fly in real military simulator of turboprop trainer. I had many hours logged in various PC simulators, and it took me eight tries to take off make a circle around and land safely. Seven times I crashed. After that I believe I could be able to fly real plane but without proper training with instructor take off and landing would certainly end with crash.

[VMFA117_Poko]

Simulators are like shadow fights in boxing training. Real fight is totally more demanding and to get there you have to take many other lessons and trainings to be ready for a real deal or you will be knock down in first round.

Edited April 5, 2010 by Poko24

[ARM505]

This is an age old question, and it's actually becoming more and more relevant. The thing about helicopters, is that compared to other forms of flying, they're VERY hands and feet on, if you understand what I'm saying. ie, You really have to get the feel of it, since the aircraft is essentially attempting to crash at any given moment, and the feeling of real flight in the maching will be utterly overwhelming at first if all you've ever used is the sim (which can't really replicate the sound, vibration, panoramic view, and all around sensory overload). Sure, the stab in the BS would help, but I still reckon the easiest thing to get off the ground, fly about, and land if you've NEVER flown before (using ALL automation of course!) would be something like a B737-600, or A318.

[Griffin]

I don't believe you would be able to comfortably fly like a real pilot but it sure would give you a big headstart.

After flying BS for a couple of months, I had a flight in a small military helicopter. To my surprise and joy the pilot said I can take control (him being on controls at the same time of course). Carefully I did a small pitch forward and then started turning right coordinating with pedals. The helicopter felt super sensitive but surprisingly easy to handle at speed. I did a right turn, left turn, small climb and descend. Of course it was a completely new experience with real flight controls and feeling the real movement but I could get a hang of it quite easily because of knowing how helicopters fly. A couple of other guys had the same flight without prior simulator experience and said the helicopter felt totally strange and they couldn't get the hang of it at all. I can't even imagine trying to hover though and it was amazing to see how precisely and steadily the pilots can do it.

I also had a chance to fly a modern "state of the art" fighter jet simulator a couple of years ago and could fly without any major issues. After a couple/three rough landings I managed to put her down rather nicely. Again, the real deal would feel very different indeed but simulator experience would definately give the edge when dealing with the new element of flying.

 

If we think about the classic movie situation where something happens to the passenger plane pilots and some passenger has to take control only helped by ATC, I think a seasoned virtual pilot would be able to bring the bird down. That wouldn't be me though. ;)

 

Edit: Oh and it also works the same way other way around. You can propably land better in a simulator than a real pilot can in a sim. I've tried. :D

 

Edited April 5, 2010 by Griffin

[talisman]

About a year ago i was given a 2 hour flying lesson by my wife.

 

The instructor asked if i had any experience flying and i said i had about 100 hours in slight sims and that i had built an almost full size sim (at that time a bell 206)

 

I was debriefed and he asked me the startup procedures - i told him and we started up.

 

As we where hover taxiing to the runway he handed me control of the aircraft. (r22) It took about 2 or three minutes to het used to the rudder then i was away.

 

From that moment untill we landed (hover to a bay) i had full control of the helicopter. The instructor even remarked that it was brilliant because he could enjoy the view for once and sat there with his arms folded :)

 

Untill that day i had never even been in a real helicopter. The most difficult thing for me was the fact that my body became involved in the flight - having your ears telling you things that your not used to - is weird at first.

 

I was invited back and told that if i could hover on my first lesson - i would do well.

 

So in short - yes flight simulators can teach you to fly a real bird. In fact hovering the real thing is slightly easier as you have physical cues as well as visual.

[EtherealN]

A note on helicopter handling at speed - it is indeed easier (at least for a fixed-wing pilot), since once you are up to speed it will behave more like an aircraft and less like something that dreams about flipping over and simulating a mole. :P

 

Also, on passengers taking over, it wasn't all that long ago I read a news piece about a flight attendant (though I think she did fly Cessnas - she did at least hold a PPL) taking over and landing a Boeing without incident.

 

I don't have a problem seeing a seasoned simulator pilot flying the real thing quite nicely. The big question is whether they'll be able to repeat the exercise many times without killing themselves. :P

[ericinexile]

...would be something like a B737-600, or A318.

 

 

I currently fly or have flown both the A320 and B737-3/5/7/8/9/9ER for a living. I promise you that anyone who hasn't flown a large plane (12,500 lbs+/5700kg) in the real world would have a very difficult time landing without breaking something. With enough X-Plane time, and calm winds, you probably will survive the experience but that's about it. If you do decide to try it, make sure that you engage both autopilots prior to glideslope intercept for autoland. Oh and don't forget to disconnect autothrust after touchdown

Edited April 5, 2010 by ericinexile

[EvilBivol-1]

An analogy I've used before - if you play a very realistic hockey game, will it teach you how to ice skate?

[Zorrin]

I ran a flying school (both helis and planes) and helicopter charter company a few years back in the UK. Had a spotty 17 year old lad stroll in to enquire about a PPL(A).

 

Told him the requirements and he scoffed at my suggestion that it would be anywhere between 10 and 15 hours before he went solo. He said he'd had a lot of Flight Simulator experience and believed he could quite easily take "one of those little planes" (a Cessna 152) take off fly a circuit and land.

 

He couldn't even start the engine.

 

I am still relatively wet behind the ears in flying with around 160-hours and oodles of 'sim time'. But I'd be sceptical of my ability to bring a Kamov back in one piece, regardless of how I can throw it around in DCS.

 

As a procedural trainer and cockpit familiarity yes, but to suggest anything else is just not sensible. Even if we accept the fact that there people out there who are naturally gifted in the ability to use aircraft.

 

Flying is not really about physically controlling the aircraft, it's the command decision that is entrusted to you as an aircraft commander. The fact that you are solely responsible for the lives of every single person on board your aircraft.

 

 

 

... something like a B737-600, or A318.

 

 

Yup 'coz the walkround is really easy to practise in FS and you know what to look for too. It'd probably be hard enough just to get the engines started without breaking anything!

[Downey Jr.]

I had a chance to fly in real military simulator of turboprop trainer. I had many hours logged in various PC simulators, and it took me eight tries to take off make a circle around and land safely. Seven times I crashed. After that I believe I could be able to fly real plane but without proper training with instructor take off and landing would certainly end with crash.

 

you make me sad...

[empeck]

you make me sad...

 

Why?

 

Maybe I would be able to land real aircraft, but with just one try I hope I won't have the opportunity :)

 

I prefer not to fly but to be alive :D

[Downey Jr.]

An analogy I've used before - if you play a very realistic hockey game, will it teach you how to ice skate?

 

uh...if the controls were two 'xbox ice skates' placed on my feet it would be better lol

 

for sims at least most of us simmers have rudder, joy (or yoke) and throttle controls equivalent to real aircraft

[EtherealN]

Well Downey, you don't have the most important sensors in a simulator, though - Mk1 Behind and Mk1 Inner Ear. ;)

 

They make a lot of difference. That's why I say that someone that is experienced with real flying can use a sim like DCS:BS as a conversion trainer (that is, to learn a new aircraft), but few people would be able to go from sim only to being proficient at flying the real thing. You might actually survive several flights, but no-one in their right mind would trust you with 15 million dollars worth of bird without instruction, and no to-be pilot that has his marbles right would go solo in a thing like that on only PC simulation.

[Griffin]

An analogy I've used before - if you play a very realistic hockey game, will it teach you how to ice skate?

I'm not trying to be a smartass or claim I can fly only with simulator experience but that depends how you define realistic. If NHL 2010 is referred as realistic, then that comparison is very bad. I assume that you mean a game where you move your feet? :)

 

Also the answer is not completely simple in my opinion. As I said, it works the other way around too. I flew a Cessna in a simulator with a licensed Cessna pilot and I landed better than him. He said it's much easier in real life because of superior situational awareness, the real feel of controls and that your ass is actually connected to the aircraft.

[JimMack]

Simulators teach you switchology - how to start up, emergency procedures etc.

They do not teach you how to fly.

You have to learn to fly in a real aircraft or helo. Simulators can assist in converting from one type to another.

For instance, the pilots who fly the aircraft in The Fighter Collection.

They have probably 1000+ hours in commercial/military aircraft.

They then spend about 100 hours in a T6 Harvard - dual control WW2 trainer.

If they pass, they can fly a Spitfire etc.

 

Mind you, in 1940, UK pilots with only 40 hours on a Tiger Moth, were given 6 hours on a Spitfire, and then went into battle. Most were killed within the first 5 sorties. But it was war.

Edited April 5, 2010 by JimMack

[kingneptune117]

Was just wondering about this. Surely the real helicopter would be more difficult to fly?

 

not quite. First of all, you are actually in a REAL 3d environment and you are using YOUR HANDS on the REAL BUTTONS. This feels completely different than mouse clicking and hitting keyboard buttons. Second of all you would feel the helicopter, and would have your hands full with many things.

 

For something as complex as the blackshark it would be hard.

 

As for a Cessna 172, the simulator would be a great choice of training. I flew FSX for about a year in the cessna before taking my first real lesson in one, and I knew just about everything. Then again, unlike blackshark, there are not 100 different switches and guages you should be constantly checking.

[Napa]

Since EvilBivol used the analogy of iceskating, I'll use the analogy of firearms.

 

You may play counterstrike or any other fps game for years and have an amazing talent and be the "king of hill" online. I'm not saying you'll have a hard time to shoot with a gun... but will you be able to hit the bullseye?