ED: Can I sell my Downloaded Version?

[Dusty Rhodes]

I am getting the CD version from Natural Point as soon as it is available (Order already placed), so I want to sell my Downloaded version to someone who doesn't have it.

 

Can I do this?

 

I placed this on the open board as I understand that others might be contemplating the same thing and I want to make sure it is OK to do. I am in the USA.

 

Thanks.

[Stormin]

Is there anything in the EULA that would prevent it?

 

In my opinion such a transaction should be possible.

[Ragtag]

I'll be happy to buy it from you since download is my only option.

PM me when you have decided :)

[Dusty Rhodes]

It will be up to ED to tell me if I can or not Ragtag.

 

As EULA's and such can be legaleze, I want to get a short and quick answer from ED as that will be a no doubt answer. I am sure it will help many many others also.

[Ragtag]

no problem, i got the time :)

just Email me when you get the answer and are ready

[Dmut]

Dusty Rhodes, unfortunately you don't have rights to sell you copy.

accoding to EULA:

Transmitting any of your rights and obligations related to this agreement to any third parties is prohibited.

[Ragtag]

Dusty, can you please send me the complete EULA ?

 

And an answer from ED would be nice.

 

Several people has already sold their downloads accounts in public forums already and i doubt that ED has anything to say against it.

 

I think "transmitting" goes for sharing or spreading the software over internet wich would be piracy but i hardly think that the EULA says you cant sell a product you bought.

 

this is only my oppinion so ED...please answer :)

[Guest FastVinny]

Any PC game can't be sold used (including cd version). The reason is that you buy a license (right of use associate with a person like your driver license) and not the material. If you sell the cd, your buyer need to buy a other cd key if he want stay legal (but who do it ;) ).

 

For console game is not the same thing because it don't need installation so you don't buy the content but the material. It's why you can rent console game in blockbuster but not PC game.

[schimmel]

Just want to point out, that not everything mentioned in the EULA is legal.

F.ex. if the EULA would say: "You are not allowed to make a backup copy", you could care less about it in my country.

 

I'd take a look at the laws in my country.

 

@FastVinny

 

How do you explain the fact, that PC-games are sold on ebay? If it was illegal, this would be impossible.

 

The EULA is not above the law. If the law in your country says that this type of transaction is allowed for a license, the EULA becomes obsolete.

[Conuk]

Was gonna make that point - theres plenty of `originals` on ebay for sale.. some more than the cost at the shops !

 

I think ED wouldnt persue you selling it (afterall the SF key is only good for one copy) but they wont say you can ;)

 

Just my opinion.

[Dmut]

Unfortunately, there is issue with SF keys - since everyone has 15 activation, you can sell your copy to other two friends, and every of you can use up to 5 activations, which is enought to play year. do a math: you buy 1 copy, but 3 people play it. That's why selling of downloadable copy is prohibited.

Situation with CD is different - unless you some how crack it, you must have it in the drive in order to play. and If you sell your CD, then you can't play.

And those smarts, who already sell their downloadable copy with serial key, just want to make "easy money" and continue play, since they still have a serial number.

[Conuk]

ahhh didnt think of that to be honest - guess you could just write down the key - sell it then message ED saying your key dont work or something and get a new one.

 

Point taken.

[Bungle_uk]

except each time other ppl play, there would most likley be a 40% change in hardware so new activation required. Therefore to sell the game you would not be able to still play it as this would either invalidate your game or the person you sold it to. If I understand things correctly that is

[Bug11]

with the starforce activation scheme you could potentially install as many copies as you have activations?

 

wow.

[Dusty Rhodes]

I appreciate everyones opinion on this and their views of the EULA. Much of it makes sense. My question for it not being legal has to do with eBay sales, taking your used game into EB or some other shop so as to trade them in, selling them on the message boards of our flight sim message boards, things like that seem to be OK. So what is the difference of me selling my downloaded copy to someone. This might be another issue with Starforce and the laws of certain lands. You have now made it impossible for me to sell the rights that I own, to the game. And if I can't sell those rights, why can I sell the CD copies on eBay, message boards, or trade them in at EB or Gamestop, yet because I downloaded, I can't with this sim.

 

Bottom line, though, I would like to hear a definitive answer on ED's stance on this subject.

[Alfa]

Unfortunately, there is issue with SF keys - since everyone has 15 activation, you can sell your copy to other two friends, and every of you can use up to 5 activations, which is enought to play year. do a math: you buy 1 copy, but 3 people play it. That's why selling of downloadable copy is prohibited.

 

Sorry Dmut, but how is that possible? ;) .

 

I dont know about the legal aspects(sorry Dusty), but each time someone starts up 1.1, the serial # will be compared with the hardware profile - if this has changed since the last time the game was started up(i.e. on another PC) then a re-activation will be required since this would constitute a major hardware change.

 

In other words - if 3 people use the same 1.1 serial # on each their computer, they could eat up the 15 activations in a couple of days....i.e. one each time there is a switch from one PC to another.

 

For this reason alone, I would not buy someone´s download version of 1.1 - because the person you bought it from knows your serial # and you have no guarantee that he/she wont try running 1.1 using that serial after you bought it......thereby using up the activations you paid for.

 

- JJ.

[schimmel]

Bottom line, though, I would like to hear a definitive answer on ED's stance on this subject.

 

Well the EULA IS the official stance, isn't it. They don't want you to sell it. Dmut reaffirmed this here. Now they can't explain you the laws of your country.

[Dusty Rhodes]

Thanks Schimmel, your OPINION is duly noted and given the appropriate attention.

 

ED, can I get an official word on this, please?

[Slammin]

Sorry Dmut, but how is that possible? ;) .

 

I dont know about the legal aspects(sorry Dusty), but each time someone starts up 1.1, the serial # will be compared with the hardware profile - if this has changed since the last time the game was started up(i.e. on another PC) then a re-activation will be required since this would constitute a major hardware change.

 

In other words - if 3 people use the same 1.1 serial # on each their computer, they could eat up the 15 activations in a couple of days....i.e. one each time there is a switch from one PC to another.

 

For this reason alone, I would not buy someone´s download version of 1.1 - because the person you bought it from knows your serial # and you have no guarantee that he/she wont try running 1.1 using that serial after you bought it......thereby using up the activations you paid for.

 

- JJ.

 

But since SF does not 'phone home', up to 15 different machines can run FC from one single legit copy. Or did I miss something?

[bflagg]

Here's a question that obvious to ask...

Why can't they just generate a new number when there is a confirmation / verfication of sale?

 

seems rather easy to me....

[schimmel]

Sorry Dmut, but how is that possible? ;) .

 

I dont know about the legal aspects(sorry Dusty), but each time someone starts up 1.1, the serial # will be compared with the hardware profile - if this has changed since the last time the game was started up(i.e. on another PC) then a re-activation will be required since this would constitute a major hardware change.

When you activate you send your activation key and your hardware profile to SF. They generate a new serial which will only work with your profile.

 

Every time you start the game, SF compares the serial with the hardware profile. Nothing is compared to the last startup. Your serial simply doesn't work with some other hardware profile.

In other words - if 3 people use the same 1.1 serial # on each their computer, they could eat up the 15 activations in a couple of days....i.e. one each time there is a switch from one PC to another.

No. 3 activation keys would be used. Not more. Information is only send to SF during activation. Although remember that this would be illegal.

 

oh and here: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2001/11/28/us_court_ruling_nixes_software/http://www.theregister.co.uk/2001/11/28/us_court_ruling_nixes_software/

 

Here a court ruled that you can sell games in the U.S. no matter what the EULA says.

 

Of course I wouldn't buy the game on ebay. Since you can't trust the seller that he won't use himself the activation keys left.

[Slammin]

Let's see. Trade. swap, or sell my dload.

 

Hmm, the thought never crossed my mind with my Steam aquired Half Life, though I've only played HL a few times. Granted, I got HL free with a video card purchase.

 

Man, this stuff is weird!

[Dmut]

Sorry Dmut, but how is that possible? ;) .

 

I dont know about the legal aspects(sorry Dusty), but each time someone starts up 1.1, the serial # will be compared with the hardware profile - if this has changed since the last time the game was started up(i.e. on another PC) then a re-activation will be required since this would constitute a major hardware change.

 

Slammin and schimmel are explained this.

When you purchasing FC, you getting just one SN, which can be used up to 15 activations. When you start LO first time, you need to activate it. for activation you need machine key and activation key, that you get from SF site in exchange to SN and machine key. So, LO doesn't know your SN, but know mahicne key(hardware hash) and activation key.

So, with new activation number (15) it's theoretically possible to install one copy of FC on 15 PCs. however, every FC will work until first hardware change will detected.

 

In other words - if 3 people use the same 1.1 serial # on each their computer, they could eat up the 15 activations in a couple of days....i.e. one each time there is a switch from one PC to another.

FC doens't make online check everytime it run.

 

For this reason alone, I would not buy someone´s download version of 1.1 - because the person you bought it from knows your serial # and you have no guarantee that he/she wont try running 1.1 using that serial after you bought it......thereby using up the activations you paid for.

 

- JJ.

That's absolutely right - you never know how much activations you have, since anyone who know the serial key can use your activations.

[Branco]

Selling downloaded software with a registration code is more a matter of trust then any other thing.

I do not say this will be the case, but in fact the seller can continue to use its downloaded software and the same registration key that he sold.

The buyer have no guarantees, other then the word of the seller, that the registration code will only be used by the buyer from the moment the software as "changed hands".

 

But if the seller continue to use the software and the registration key? Now there are two different persons using the same key and that seems to be illegal. Once we buy the software we have also a key to activate the product. That key should be private and for the use of the single buyer. If you sell the software downloaded you must provide the registration key as well. If you not then the buyer can't use the software and the sail is there void: the buyer can't use the product as advertised by the seller, therefore the seller did not complied with his obligation - to provide a product in good conditions of use. If the buyer can't use then it's not in conditions to be used.

 

The key issue here is in fact the registration key. One can say that when we buy/download the software we are also buying the registration key, i.e., the means to use the software. I personally don't agree. What you're actually buying is the right to use the software - license. The registration key as no value for its own. It's used as a way to prevent that others, then the buyer, use the product without license to do it. I see it like a key for a road car. We buy the car, with it comes a key that allows opening the car and starting the engine. What we bough was the car, the key is just a mean to prevent that others use our car. It's a security for the buyer and, in software, a security for the author/manufacturer as well. If I sell the car I deliver the key, but it's clear that I wont sell the key, and no one will buy it, as a product by it self. Alone, the key as no value at all.

 

Now comes the problem. We bough a right to use a downloaded software, which we paid for. With that right comes an agreement: a registration key is given but we agree to keep it private and for our own use. I sell the eventual rights I have over the software but I can't deliver the registration key. If I give the registration key to someone else I'm violating the agreement made when we bought the software in the first place. If I'm violating that agreement then we're responsible for a third party using the software, software that is not allowed to be use cause the second buyer hasn't agreed in the first sell with the author. Also the developer/publisher, who ever have the right to sell the software initially, didn't agree to make the registration available to no one else but the first buyer. So, if we can't provide the registration key to others there is not point in selling the software, as the sell will be void, as long the new buyer can't use the software as advertised.

 

Going still further, in almost 100% of the cases (I can't remember one that's different) we don't buy the product. What we paid for is a license to use it within certain conditions. A license therefor can be seen more as a service rather then a product. If someone sell me a service I don't see how can I sell the same service to others if that service isn't mine to sell. What I have is only the final result of the service and the final result is the software that we're licensed to use.

I do know this is open to discussion but the fact is this: a private agreement, as long as it's not contradictory with the upper law, oblige both parts to respect it for all the conditions agreed. If I agree with other that the software is meant to be used only in one PC, the registration key is to be used only by the person that agrees with the terms of the licensing and that I can't share the software and/or the registration keys, I don't see how that agreement can contradict the upper law. The agreement doesn't oblige to any criminal or illicit behaviour nor is limiting any rights already present in law. So we must comply with it and to "sell" the license to others without knowledge and agreement from the author isn't legal. At least this is my position on this, although I'm not ED either, of course.

 

Uff, that was long.

[44th_Hitnrun]

Sorry Dmut, but how is that possible? ;) .

 

I dont know about the legal aspects(sorry Dusty), but each time someone starts up 1.1, the serial # will be compared with the hardware profile - if this has changed since the last time the game was started up(i.e. on another PC) then a re-activation will be required since this would constitute a major hardware change.

 

In other words - if 3 people use the same 1.1 serial # on each their computer, they could eat up the 15 activations in a couple of days....i.e. one each time there is a switch from one PC to another.

 

For this reason alone, I would not buy someone´s download version of 1.1 - because the person you bought it from knows your serial # and you have no guarantee that he/she wont try running 1.1 using that serial after you bought it......thereby using up the activations you paid for.

 

- JJ.

 

This is not the case with activation. I have had 1.1 installed on 2 computers with the same number, Different hardware. I did this to test my problems I was having to see if it was hardware related or what. I ran both copies at the same time online because my problem was only with online gaming. I did burn an activation to do this. But they both ran just fine, as far as starforce is concerned. Didn't help much with my problem except I found it wasn't machine specific.

 

A reinstall of windows is seen as a Hardware change with starforce.

Even if you use your backup of the RegKey. So that burns another Activation.

 

Starforce isn't any better then any other copy protection except that It really hurts the Legit player, it works when it isn't supposed to work and doesn't work when it should.