DCS: A-10C Warthog and Cluster munitions question?

[Chillspider]

Sorry if this info has been asked I suck at searching the forum there is just so much to look through :doh::helpsmilie:. But anyway I forgot if Cluster munitions will be available in DCS: A-10C Warthog and if so will we be able to adjust burst altitude ,Arming Delay, and spacing.

[Eddie]

Wags has said in an interview that CBU-103 and 105 WCMDs will be available. So I'd also have thought that their none guided CBU-87 and 97 variations will also be available.

 

Setting spacing and ripple quantity is a certainty as it's a basic feature of the weapon system but as to being able to set BA, AD I don't know but I'll be suprised if you can't.

[Chillspider]

Wags has said in an interview that CBU-103 and 105 WCMDs will be available. So I'd also have thought that their none guided CBU-87 and 97 variations will also be available.

 

Setting spacing and ripple quantity is a certainty as it's a basic feature of the weapon system but as to being able to set BA, AD I don't know but I'll be surprised if you can't.

 

 

Ya the Burst altitude and arming Delay were the 2 i should have asked seeing the other 2 are already on the A model lol wasn't thinking but Burst altitude would be a nice feature to have and like you said id be surprised if it were not available

[sobek]

Ya the Burst altitude and arming Delay were the 2 i should have asked seeing the other 2 are already on the A model lol wasn't thinking but Burst altitude would be a nice feature to have and like you said id be surprised if it were not available

 

IIRC those are IRL set by the manufacturer or the ground crew. Not sure how or if this is going to be implemented.

[Eddie]

IIRC those are IRL set by the manufacturer or the ground crew. Not sure how or if this is going to be implemented.

 

Ground crew I believe, but as we don't use CBUs these days I can't say for sure, I'm sure someone of an American persuasion out there will be in a position to confirm.

[Chillspider]

Ground crew I believe, but as we don't use CBUs these days I can't say for sure, I'm sure someone of an American persuasion out there will be in a position to confirm.

 

They are still available in our arsenal if needed its just lately they have not been the right weapon for the job. I know that they were used in the 90's gulf war and i would think during the push to Iraq in early 2000's they may have been used in open desert against republican guard and other divisions. Plus they are used in cruise missiles and there was reports of my country using them in DEC of last year in Yemen

Edited June 24, 2010 by Chillspider

[sobek]

I keep wondering about something i heard. Wasn't there a treaty to ban the use of cluster munitions?

 

Edit: Scratch that. GB signed it but USA didn't.

[Eddie]

Edit: Scratch that. GB signed it but USA didn't.

 

Aye, it was a couple of years ago now. We only signed it as we'd scrapped the BL-755s anyway and it was a good way to score some points with the tree hugging hippys.

[sobek]

Well, cluster bombs do provide enormous potential for collateral damage to civilians, that is a fact. You don't have to be a hippie to think that this is not desireable. Also, disarming dud bomblets in the aftermath costs a massive amount of money.

 

Considering this, they are wretched both from an ethnic and economic point of view.

 

But let's not turn this thread into another ethics debate. They will be in DCS: A-10C AFAIK, hardly anybody will object to that :)

Edited June 24, 2010 by sobek

[Chillspider]

I keep wondering about something i heard. Wasn't there a treaty to ban the use of cluster munitions?

 

Edit: Scratch that. GB signed it but USA didn't.

 

Ya and the Pope made a big push for this. The U.S. has stated that used properly that there not terrible like they're made out to be. But I'm sure that the stats and info on our weapons are a big classified or hard to get a hold of about it,

[Avimimus]

I thought I'd strongly recommend the documentary "Bomb Harvest".

 

It gives a real sense of the underfunding and risks to bomb disposal in the 3rd world and the tremendous costs to the population which is still being paid more than three decades after the fighting ends. It is also quite disturbing to watch the traumatized reactions of the old people to detonation of nearby bombs (many of whom lost families to bombing in the war).

 

Of course, as a virtual pilot I'm exceedingly please at having cluster munitions and really value them. However any aerial bombardment is harder to unquestioningly support after seeing the impacts so closely.

 

http://uk.video.yahoo.com/watch/2396044

 

Still, I'm looking forward to them in DCS...

 

*idea*

Maybe ED should make a bomb disposal simulator as well? - just as tense...

[SUBS17]

I'm quite sure the A-10A has the setting for BA and AD and also Nose/Tail setting so it should be in the C as well.

[Frederf]

IIRC those are IRL set by the manufacturer or the ground crew. Not sure how or if this is going to be implemented.

 

This was always a goofy point in Falcon 4.0. It was strange to "set" the burst altitude (CBU-87) or burst delay (Mk-20D) when these were set on the ground the avionics had to be told what the bombs were set to.

 

Another big deal was the fact that BA was radar value (it was MSL in Falcon, a mistake). There is also a "spin" value to CBUs sometimes for dispersal that is set on the ground as well.

 

It's rather important that DCS:WH really model the ground armament activity well. The Ka-50 had missiles and rockets and that was all well and good but the A-10 is very different; heavily reliant on munitions that have a lot of ground settings. Fuses for nose, tail, several CBU settings, etc. It would be wrong to have these changeable during flight or simply have a "one size fits all" setting baked into the ordinance.

[Eddie]

It'd be great if there could be a way to configure AD/BA for CBUs before flight, either in the mission editor or preferably the planning screen. But if this were not possible I'd say having it adjustable in the cockpit (as in Falcon) would be preferable to hard coded values.

[SUBS17]

If thats the case there will need to be elevation data on the Mission map.:thumbup:

[Eddie]

If thats the case there will need to be elevation data on the Mission map.:thumbup:

 

Not really, as if the CBUs are modelled properly (as I'm sure they will be) the burst altitude is based on a radar altimeter rather than barometric so the height of the terrain above MSL is irrelevant.

 

Of course if you get a copy of the printed tactical map, you'd have the height data of the terrain in your hands. :thumbup:

[Frederf]

Terrain height would only matter if the bomb arming time fuze wouldn't arm the CBU before the proximity fuze would normally be triggered.

 

CBU mechanization is actually pretty complex. There are delay cycles, timed deployment fuses, radar proximity fuses, ground velocity rules, dispenser spin settings, and spin rate sensors. Not every CBU will have all of these mechanizations but each one might.

 

The standard aircraft pylon only has really two arming solenoids to control everything the bomb is going to do. There are setups like nose arming only, 1.2 seconds, nose + tail 4.0 seconds, tail only = dud. When the snakeeye or BSU kits are used it takes up the rear solenoid slot.

 

I think the new XXXX compatible stations for JDAM have an additional connection for data which also would be for the WCMD.

[Chillspider]

I thought I'd strongly recommend the documentary "Bomb Harvest".

 

It gives a real sense of the underfunding and risks to bomb disposal in the 3rd world and the tremendous costs to the population which is still being paid more than three decades after the fighting ends. It is also quite disturbing to watch the traumatized reactions of the old people to detonation of nearby bombs (many of whom lost families to bombing in the war).

 

Of course, as a virtual pilot I'm exceedingly please at having cluster munitions and really value them. However any aerial bombardment is harder to unquestioningly support after seeing the impacts so closely.

 

http://uk.video.yahoo.com/watch/2396044

 

Still, I'm looking forward to them in DCS...

 

*idea*

Maybe ED should make a bomb disposal simulator as well? - just as tense...

 

 

Ya I think they could make same movie about IED's they should ban them as well. even though only our country has to follow the rules not the insurgents. I agree they need to improbe them and there trying to make it so no more than 1% are duds or misfire or whatever.

[Protos]

Is there a question somewhere?

Not sure what this thread has to do with DCS A-10 -- seems like political Off Topic to me.

[greg765]

And will we see a Mk-20 in DCS:WH ?

Or is it incompatible with the A-10 C ?

[tflash]

It'd be great if there could be a way to configure AD/BA for CBUs before flight, either in the mission editor or preferably the planning screen. But if this were not possible I'd say having it adjustable in the cockpit (as in Falcon) would be preferable to hard coded values.

 

I agree there are 3 levels:

 

- mission design

- mission planning by pilot

- cockpit

 

I guess given a particular mission, with a specified target and mission goal, a pilot should be able to not only choose an adequate loadout BUT ALSO the required CBU mechanisation BEFORE take-off.

 

For single player, it seems OK if you can set these in the mission editor, but for multiplayer it would be better that it was in the F7 aircraft maintenance menu, so that a pilot can not only request a particular payload but also decide how the CBU's are fused.

 

Of course we should keep in mind that the most modern weapons allow in-flight configuration (eg the paveway IV weapon can be largely configured during flight from the SMS menus).

[The Beast]

IIRC the 103 should be programmable from the pit because it has a cable hooked up to the jet. However the 89 doesn't have a cable therefore not programmable......

[sobek]

IIRC the 103 should be programmable from the pit because it has a cable hooked up to the jet. However the 89 doesn't have a cable therefore not programmable......

 

You mean the 1760 stores? I don't think that they provide the capability to set every parameter from the pit. IIRC burst height and separation have to be chosen on the ground. But i don't claim to be a specialist on this.

[The Beast]

You mean the 1760 stores? I don't think that they provide the capability to set every parameter from the pit. IIRC burst height and separation have to be chosen on the ground. But i don't claim to be a specialist on this.

 

Yes 1760 stores and you are correct only certain settings can be chosen from the pit. I know certain fuses give the ability to change times etc....As far as the 103 goes its not something we load or use at all...so manly guesses but we do set every fuse on the ground

[SUBS17]

Some of those settings are set in the pit as they are relevant to the delivery mode such as nose tail profiles. BTW BA and AD are set in the A-10A in the pit. My question is does the A-10C have OA and VIP/VRP settings for the HUD like the F-16? It would be cool to set this stuff on a data cartridge along with a weapon delivery planner prior to starting a mission. Like OF.:thumbup: