Oaths of a multi-player simulation pilot

[Smoky]

In addition to following all of the rules of the hosting server I will also take on the following oaths:

 

I will never intentionally team kill.

 

I will take off on runways and taxi on taxiways.

 

I will always follow proper ground, takeoff, landing, and navigation procedures.

 

I will speak or type with brevity.

 

I will never abandon my wingman.

 

I will learn my mission, briefing, objectives, and way-points, as much as possible prior to my first flight.

 

I will operate as a team player even when flying alone.

 

If I don't know, I will ask.

 

I will respect all pilots who respect the oaths.

 

Use the poll to take the oath anonymously. Use the thread to discuss how you feel about multiplayer etiquette.

[VIKBELL]

Your #2 should read : not to take off on taxi ways? Right:huh:

[Smoky]

Your #2 should read : not to take off on taxi ways? Right:huh:

 

Unfortunately, both sides of the point must be made.

 

You guys must be really bored to death

 

Yes, but I felt it would be interesting if enough folks responded. The result would indicate that either the arcade players should consider etiquette important and seek servers approrpriate for them. Or if no one cares, and the idea of multiplayer simulation is something we shouldn't cling so tightly to.

 

Just curious. Personally, I like to sim and not play Afterburner. But I am interested in how others feel.

[Pilotasso]

lol? :huh:

[Smoky]

lol? :huh:

 

I'm afraid you'll need to elaborate your question.

[Aliboy]

Hey how can I respect other pilots who have taken\respect the oath if I don't know who they are?:huh:

 

You also Forgot

 

* Don't kill AWACS when no one is even in the game and then boast about it.

* Don't chase people back to their base and then exit the game after you run out of fuel or kill them.

* Try to Balance Teams when joining a game.

* Do not do suicide runs on Ka-50s and hang around the FARP till your out of fuel ( There is a special place in hell for you ).

* Worst of all Don't say things like "Whatever" after being shot down anyone who says "Whatever" needs to be banned for a week.

Edited June 26, 2010 by Aliboy

[Smoky]

Hey how can I respect other pilots who have taken\respect the oath if I don't know who they are?:huh:

 

We should operate on the assumption that all pilots have taken the oath. To acknowledge here is simply making the oath explicit to yourself. Doesn't matter if others know it. Only matters if you buy into it yourself.

 

The point is to fly and treat others with respect. Innocent until demonstrated stupid.

 

You also Forgot

 

* Don't kill AWACS when no one is even in the game and then boast about it.

* Don't chase people back to their base and then exit the game after you run out of fuel or kill them.

* Try to Balance Teams when joining a game.

* Do not do suicide runs on Ka-50s and hang around the FARP till your out of fuel ( There is a special place in hell for you ).

* Worst of all Don't say things like "Whatever" after being shot down anyone who says "Whatever" needs to be banned for a week.

 

 

Let's just file those in a big "don't be annoying" bin. :)

Edited June 26, 2010 by Smoky

[Peyoteros]

Let's enforce the oath...

"ServMan" is the answer to most of the problems...

[Smoky]

Current stats:

 

13 acknowledgements

 

0 refutals

 

199 "No response"

 

 

It will be interesting to see how the metrics pan out over the next week.

[astrospud]

Do KA-50's need to do rolling starts? Let's face it, they take longer to take off and land than fixed wing and can tie up an airstrip for jocks to land their crippled birds...:P

 

Seriously, this simulation experience has a spectrum of users.

 

I find it disheartening that some seem to want to impose a dogmatic approach to multiplayer.

Sure, there should be rules, based on respect and understanding, but it's an over simplification to put players in the "Simulator MP" and "Arcade MP" baskets. There is a lot that I still need to learn, but I am not going to learn any of it on an "Arcade" server...

 

It all sounds like hubris and elitism IMO...

[Smoky]

Do KA-50's need to do rolling starts? Let's face it, they take longer to take off and land than fixed wing and can tie up an airstrip for jocks to land their crippled birds...:P

 

Seriously, this simulation experience has a spectrum of users.

 

I find it disheartening that some seem to want to impose a dogmatic approach to multiplayer.

Sure, there should be rules, based on respect and understanding, but it's an over simplification to put players in the "Simulator MP" and "Arcade MP" baskets. There is a lot that I still need to learn, but I am not going to learn any of it on an "Arcade" server...

 

It all sounds like hubris and elitism IMO...

 

Please elaborate. How does my wanting someone to behave with some measure of etiquette in a server labeled as a simulation server mean that I am elitist? I have to admit your logic is difficult to follow.

 

You yourself mention you are "still learning". Still learning what? Are you intending to "learn" to coexist between arcade and simulation servers, thus being the thorn on both sides? Or are you "learning" to be a better sim pilot? I suspect the latter. If that is true, then your comments are even more at-odds with your intentions.

 

Put another way, if you are not seeking to multiplay in an environment with simulation etiquette, then what are you still learning?

 

And there really are only two buckets..sim and arcade. We can pretend to blur the line but at the end of the day you're either flying with the mindset of simming, or arcade. You can't flop back and forth and call it something new. It's just arcade at that point.

 

Funny that folks are getting so perturbed by this. lol Wasn't my intention. Really I just wanted to see if the majority of folks here flew with sim etiquette or if most prefer to d!ck around informally, lone-wolfing, doing taxiway takeoffs, and what not. I don't care what any specific person does, since I fly only on sim servers. I was just curious about the community.

 

No harm intended. Allows jets to cool. :D

[Boberro]

Promise you won't ask how to turn on engines....

[astrospud]

Please elaborate. How does my wanting someone to behave with some measure of etiquette in a server labeled as a simulation server mean that I am elitist? I have to admit your logic is difficult to follow.

 

You yourself mention you are "still learning". Still learning what? Are you intending to "learn" to coexist between arcade and simulation servers, thus being the thorn on both sides? Or are you "learning" to be a better sim pilot? I suspect the latter. If that is true, then your comments are even more at-odds with your intentions.

 

Put another way, if you are not seeking to multiplay in an environment with simulation etiquette, then what are you still learning?

 

And there really are only two buckets..sim and arcade. We can pretend to blur the line but at the end of the day you're either flying with the mindset of simming, or arcade. You can't flop back and forth and call it something new. It's just arcade at that point.

 

Funny that folks are getting so perturbed by this. lol Wasn't my intention. Really I just wanted to see if the majority of folks here flew with sim etiquette or if most prefer to d!ck around informally, lone-wolfing, doing taxiway takeoffs, and what not. I don't care what any specific person does, since I fly only on sim servers. I was just curious about the community.

 

No harm intended. Allows jets to cool. :D

 

No harm or malice taken.

Now, since you seem to require specifics, when I say I am still learning, I am referring to brevity and tactics for the most part.

I know how to fly (and startup /shut down, Boberro)my own helo.

I started serious simming on FSX nearly 2 years ago, and only recently (2 or 3 months) flying MP.

I am all for teamwork and never leaving my wingman.

My query on taxi way t/o (to be more precise, helo apron) with regard to KA 50's was a valid one, I believe and yet to be answered.

 

What server do you frequent?

There are only 2 that I use, the 104th Dedicated being 95% of the time. I follow the rules. I respect the other players. When I am Blue and the mission progress/success requires it, I will attempt to kill Red players, and vice versa.

 

I am trying to be a better sim pilot, as you suspect, but rather than being closed to the newer player, I am more open minded to the broad spectrum of ability/knowledge of players who join said servers. Some of the newer (greener) players might bring some knowledge to the party. You never know.

 

To give an example, I have recently been flying with a young lad (who will remain nameless) who has had DCS:BS for just over a week.

The inroads he has made are astounding. There is a lot to learn and in the short period time he has flown the 50, I am very impressed.

There is still alot to learn however, and with the help of other players of higher skill level, much can be achieved in a shorter period of time than the SP experience can provide.

 

This cannot be done on "arcade" servers, the likes of which I have yet to come across, not that I am actively looking.

 

It would seem that there have been incidence where a random "noob" has wrecked your experience by t/k or lone wolfing.

Well, I kindly suggest you quickly get used to the MP environment. There will always be this particular element lurking on MP servers. Mechanisms such as Servman are in place to address some issues, but random noobs are an eventuality.

 

We can pretend to blur the line but at the end of the day you're either flying with the mindset of simming, or arcade. You can't flop back and forth and call it something new. It's just arcade at that point.

 

Can you seriously attest to the simulation integrity of the a/c in FC2? Are they in any way in direct comparison to the depth and breadth the upcoming title DCS:A10C or Falcon 4? Are you therefore calling yourself a true simulation flyer?

Note that I am in no way criticising the validity of the ED team in the enjoyable and engrossing product that is Flaming Cliffs 2.

To reiterate, there is no black and white, as there is no arcade and simulation player. It's a sliding scale of experience and ability.

 

I have read and understood the flight manual of my KA-50. I have flown for a some 100 hours or so (estimated). Am I still a noob?

 

If you wish to participate in true to life exercises with the player elements you desire, then I suggest organising regular invitation only meets on a locked server.

 

I will not sign your petition as I still believe it's an elitist move, given the arbitrary frames of reference you use for the players of whom have less knowledge than yourself.

 

Thank you.

[Renato71]

astrospud has it right. there are more and more guys here that are just so freaking serious that is is freaking. like some sort of fanatics, not willing to listen to any suggestion, and more then happy to storm on anybody that dares to criticize or (godforbid) doubt this dogma. You cannot voice ones free opinion unless you're ready to be called sh**head.

 

Smoky, I know how you feel, but that oath - c'mon man! thats for inter-squad rules. besides, how you're gonna enforce that? do you have some virtual police in plan? and do you think it will help this sim? to ban 90% of paying customers in the start? cos, its about how many are NOT playing up to your rules right now. and they will never learn (nor appreciate them) if you ban them.

 

internet created greatest freedom in the world equally for all people, and you are all competing over who is going to be the biggest brother of them all? jeez!

cmon people, whats with all this paranoia and police brutality? what happened to all of you? for crissake, this is a GAME, it should be fun.

[Smoky]

Guys,

 

First, I never said anything about banning. Or enforcement. You are making up your own stories at that point. So I don't know how to address those queries.

 

RE: KA-50 takeoffs, use the server/house rules for etiquette. If apron t/o and landing is ok, then awesome. Point is to be aware.

 

RE: Pure simulation, we're talking about behavior, not sim fidelity.

 

 

And I never said I had a problem with learning curves. In fact, I believe I accounted for that with my proposed item "If I don't know, I will ask."

[GGTharos]

Most people don't know and don't care for simulating pilot behavior beyond what they see in movies, documentaries, or things they read on the internet.

Many simply don't have time to learn this stuff - and you know what? You have to spend five grand and a bunch of weekends just to get through ground school for your PPL in real life.

 

I doubt people fly combat sims for that particular experience.

 

Personally I'm all for kicking people who do taxiway take-offs when there's no enemies near their base though ... Ka-50's excluded.

[Protos]

astrospud has it right. there are more and more guys here that are just so freaking serious that is is freaking. like some sort of fanatics, not willing to listen to any suggestion, and more then happy to storm on anybody that dares to criticize or (godforbid) doubt this dogma. You cannot voice ones free opinion unless you're ready to be called sh**head.

 

Smoky, I know how you feel, but that oath - c'mon man! thats for inter-squad rules. besides, how you're gonna enforce that? do you have some virtual police in plan? and do you think it will help this sim? to ban 90% of paying customers in the start? cos, its about how many are NOT playing up to your rules right now. and they will never learn (nor appreciate them) if you ban them.

 

internet created greatest freedom in the world equally for all people, and you are all competing over who is going to be the biggest brother of them all? jeez!

cmon people, whats with all this paranoia and police brutality? what happened to all of you? for crissake, this is a GAME, it should be fun.

 

Maybe reread some of what you wrote here ..... your more than a little intense about your own point of view.

[Renato71]

@Smoky - OK on that, as long as not dead serious :)

@Protos - Lately there are people with so paranoid and exclusive attitudes that it really scares me. There is so much crap in real life, can't we be more relaxed here? There were few posts around here by someone who must feel that he is important in community, cos on my opinion about policing he did not hesitate to fire back with bunch of insults.

 

cheers

[Udat]

Name an "arcade server" please. If not "speaking with brevity" is your idea of arcade play; good luck finding a 100% clean "simulation server."

 

Lock-on is a simulation. Maybe not as hi-fidelity as other simulators, but still a simulator. It annoys me how some people in this community condescendingly starts pulling words like air-quake and arcade out of their asses as soon as someone doesn't comply with their standards of brevity-discipline. I think GG put it very well; don't expect people to act like real pilots all the time, but kick them the hell out if they act like assholes.

[Renato71]

(...)

I think GG put it very well; don't expect people to act like real pilots all the time, but kick them the hell out if they act like assholes.

Yup, no need to go to extremes in any case :)

[159th_Viper]

Public servers are there for the Enjoyment of all.....Yes, there are rules that are stipulated in the brief, largely redundant these days thanx to Servman. Point is if you Act like an A$$ you're going to get the Carrot. No if's, but's or how's......You will be removed from the server. Point #1 taken care of.

 

Comms, well, each to their own. Certainly recommended, but not a gamebreaker. No-one is forcing you to voice your tantrums or otherwise. Brevity comes as a matter of course if you do elect to join a Comms server. Trust me - you get used to migrating from 'Oh hell I think I just spotted a launch from below some 6 km to my right.....Oh yeah there's the Missile-Trail incoming.....I'm going to turn around and get the hell....BOOM!!!' to 'SAM Launch 3 'o clock #2 Defensive and extending 250'. Time saves Airframes. #2 sorted.

 

In any event - it is inevitably a natural progression towards conformity if the issue is not forced. Attempts to enforce a specific set of rules/oath on someone will more often than not have the opposite of the intended result, especially in a Public, Open environment. It is at the end of the day a Hobby - Gotta have the Fun-Factor.

 

For those that do indeed wish to have a specific set of standards enforced, be it of whatever nature, well that is already catered for in events such as Nucleus, L.O.C.E.R.F., Team Combat League, Inter-Squad matches and others.

 

Why are we even having this discussion? I would have thought that the Community as a whole is pretty well behaved as a matter of course :)

[astrospud]

@Smoky - OK on that, as long as not dead serious :)

@Protos - Lately there are people with so paranoid and exclusive attitudes that it really scares me. There is so much crap in real life, can't we be more relaxed here? There were few posts around here by someone who must feel that he is important in community, cos on my opinion about policing he did not hesitate to fire back with bunch of insults.

 

cheers

 

I really enjoy flying on public server for the relaxed atmosphere and lack of pretence.

While I'm sure Smoky understands this and makes distinctions between this and an arcade server in the construction of his argument, I don't believe he was in any way being insulting about it.

 

Viper puts a very good point forward in that enforcing rules is one thing. Enforcing a level of behaviour beyond obvious respect and good will, will generally turn users to believe the "Thought Police" have arrived.

 

I have to agree that of all the online environments I've experienced, this one is the most mature in the conduct of it's users.

 

Big ups, people. :thumbup:

[3Sqn_TomAce]

Server admins set the rules, you can help them out by following their instructions on how to deal with A holes who ruin the game for others. Then it's up to said admins to do something about it.

 

But then again this would require people to read the brief :)

[Bearitall]

Server admins set the rules, you can help them out by following their instructions on how to deal with A holes who ruin the game for others. Then it's up to said admins to do something about it.

 

But then again this would require people to read the brief :)

 

This is true Server's are private with the invite to the public members to join and enjoy..saying this these server's have a set of rules whether you like it or not..it is not your right to be able to use the server without restrictions set forth by the Admin's ... so step out of line you may feel the rath of the Admin's and be kicked for a few minutes to hours even days..for a cool down ...

 

These server have alot of hours put into them...for your enjoyment...not to abuse and feel its your right to be there...regardless of how you feel..

 

This is a game...and as stated by 159th Viper most server's are pretty lean on a set of rules..except those who run competitions...then these rules are strictly enforced...

 

Please be happy and enjoy the New FC2...:thumbup:

[104th_Crunch]

Nice thread Smoky! It is good to get the overall point across that more people should behave more maturely. There has been a lot of new comers with FC2, and you must give new comers a break because they are learning. Still, I see players that have been around a while as well as newcomers that can act silly some times. Nothing wrong with wanting more professionalism Smoky. The last thing I think anyone wants is the equivalent of X-Box live, where you have kids screaming in your ear.

 

 

Some points I'd like to comment on.

 

Comms - not everyone knows brevity, but even if you don't, the definition of brevity is to be brief. Why clog chat with useless chatter when it could be used for teamplay. Even better, join a server's TeamSpeak. Most servers have the details of TS in their mission brief.

 

Airport operations - Good idea to not worry about getting in the air as fast as you can. Watch for traffic instead of rushing through the airport.

 

Sportsmanship! - IMO the most important of all. I like competition as much as the next guy, but there is no reason to act immaturely when you are killed, or if things don't go you way. A "good kill" to your opponent is never a bad thing to say. Respect goes a long way.