Avoiding AA

[GRoss]

Hi everybody!

 

Been playing Black Shark for a bit now, and got around 15 hours of xp. I've improved in flying, engaging enemies and avoiding missiles (to an extent). However all of this is with LABELS on, which is obviously not realistic at all.

 

My question (sort of) is about how would military helicopter pilots avoid, spot and engage enemy air defences if necessary. As I understand it, having an AA gun hidden in between buildings/vegetation is quite easy with same camo netting and vegetation. And I also think that in most cases such a hidden gun could hardly be spotted by a single pilot, unless he already knows its approximate whereabouts.

 

Another thing that I am not sure about is the amount of tracers that all guns produce in this game - is this similar to real life? Would you actually be able to see AA rounds coming towards you?

 

All of this questions are pretty much for general knowledge, because I have completed the Convoy Hunt mission a few times and always wondered how would anyone be able to complete it without having labels turned on and without knowing where those AA guns are, and not actually being sure about their presence at all.

[Squid_DK]

First to spot stuff, be slow and methodical, exploit terrain to sneak up on your objectives, and take your time, do't use the obvious approach route.

 

Regarding if you can see the tracers coming at you, in Ed Macyøs book Hellfire he describes seeing the 23mm tracers reaching out and him taking action accordingly.

 

Staffan

[Speed]

I read a few books by Cobra pilots who flew in Vietnam. One discribed .51 caliber commie anti-aircraft gun rounds looking like glowing footballs flying up at him. Another more humourous story involves him, while riding in the front seat, lighting a cigarette and getting rewarded with extreme manuvers by the pilot. Apparently the pilot saw the match igniting out of the corner of his eye and thought it was a AAA round coming up right at him!

[Sticky]

Im also beginning to feel ready to start trying to fly BS without labels, but is there a good guide somewhere for that? I only imagine all the problems that will arise trying to find the targets, finding threats, getting too close to threats before I see them, identifying friendlies. I dont know where to start..

 

I DID fly no labels all the time with the FC2 F-15, but its not the same thing at all, you have the RWR, radar and AWACS + dont need to find the targets on the ground... totally different!

 

So is there a good "no labels" guide for DCS BS?

[Insanatrix]

You always want to be scanning with the shkval. You can see targets out to 20km pretty clearly with it and you can always save them to abris to call upon later.

 

First thing you should do is establish the forward line of the enemy and make a mental note never to cross it unless you are sure that all threats have been eliminated.

 

Secondly you want to scan for targets with the highest threat potential, any kind of AAA, Manpads, Mobile launchers. Remember to use the maximum range potential of your sensors, only get as close as you must to I.D. targets. Get used to what they look like as well. Look for antenna dishes to I.D. if it's radar guided. Take out defenses first then work on mission objectives.

 

Use the datalink and make use of your wingman AI or human.

 

It's better to be safe and slow than fast and dead.

[element1108]

Really study the map as well, things look pretty different from the air perspective and depending how high you go that picture can change drastically. So with the above mentions of slow as you go, terrain masking etc, study the map and find visual points of interest along your rout so you can identify where you are vs the expected enemy. Helicopter pilots don't usually fly into a zone blind, they have decent intel on enemy threats, maybe not expact positions but relative positions. Along with your abris and some good studying your chances of survival will increase.

 

Best of luck gents.

[Bushmanni]

I learned to play without labels through trial and error. Spotting targets is ultimately a cognitive process (a.k.a skill) that can be learned only through doing it. It's going to be hard at first but once you start to get it in to your system that you can't be in a hurry and you have to take your time to scan the terrain it starts to seem like doable. It does involve some strategy though where knowledge can help.

 

First of all, you need to take your time and do it properly. Learn how fast you can scan without missing targets. Open areas can be scanned faster as it's easier and faster to spot a target there. Cities and edges of forests need to be checked more slowly to give your brain time to process the image and find the target.

 

First make a preliminary scan with eyes using max zoom. Move your head so that you can see also the dead space behind window pillars. Reduce brightness of the HUD and helmet sight so that it doesn't hinder your observation.

 

Prioritize certain areas over others while scanning. You may have some preliminary information about enemy positions or direction they are coming, scan these areas first. Terrain you are going to be flying over is especially important to scan for enemy.

 

Get inside enemy head, in this case the mission designer. Different mission designers have different styles and ideas about how to place enemy AD units and with some observation and deduction you might be able to learn how he is thinking. This info is applicable only to missions of the same designer. Look first the most likeliest and deadliest places for AD units, then possible places and after that the rest.

 

When moving, try to scan for launches. Usually the possible SAM is inside a somewhat narrow sector. Scan this direction continuously and only briefly check forward direction and gauges. This habit has saved me many times. It might be good to check what the launch looks like from far away by creating a training mission for it. Launch is usually always pretty visible even from far away if you happen to look in the same direction. SAM needs a line of sight to its target for launch and therefore you always have the opportunity to see the launch flash.

 

If its safe to fly high, you can spot targets more easily and farther away.

 

Sometimes hills and especially buildings block LOS to target. It might be wise to check the target area from multiple directions at stand-off distance before going closer.

 

When scanning big areas be methodical. Have some pattern to follow that helps you cover the entire area thoroughly and efficiently. I usually scan side to side, then move the view up or down with little overlap and do side to side scan again and repeat until the whole sector is scanned.

 

Sometimes its good to use "slicing the pie" method. Instead of bobbing up behind an obstruction and revealing yourself to a very big sector you bob sideways but slowly while continuously scanning the obstruction edge for possible enemies being unmasked. This way you spot the enemy right away when you have LOS and you reveal yourself for only one enemy at a time in known direction.

 

Continuous scanning and being alert drains your energy so conserve it in some smart fashion. I have read that UAV operator is capable to reliably find targets for only about 20min and after that his capability starts to deteriorate. Be sure to be alert when you really need to be.

[Luke.S]

fly like me :megalol:

 

10m above the ground at 300km/h

[Tangolima600]

Does the visual distance setting under options affect how far out you can find targets or is it just for structures/visual effects?

[JasonJ]

I have found the target's visibility is not affected regardless of visibility setting in the game config. You can even see targets through buildings when structures are transparent off in the distance if you have visibilty down to low. Making spotting them even easier.

[ViperTech]

fly like me :megalol:

 

10m above the ground at 300km/h

 

Quite a little too fast to recognize targets which can sudden show up.

A manpad is a little target...hard to see...and ways harder at that high speed.

 

I use high speed only to get back to hot zone again after refueling/rearming and only till that point I'm really sure that it's safe.

 

Terrain masking is the most important thing imho at terrains which are not fully cleared up.

 

Study the briefing map heavily, make some scribbles of the most important things on a sheet of paper (helps u a lot ingame), look for good alternate routes, use pop-up/pop-side to attack sam's first...but that's said before.

[GRoss]

Thanks for all of your replies, I guess time and patience together with a developed method for searching for targets could help, but I still think that it could be harder than in reality.

 

I mean as far as I understand, in real life chopper pilots (and any other pilots) will be constantly communicating with each other, base and maybe ground troops, who will direct and help in identifying targets. I see that this is not represented in Black Shark.

[Toadster]

Thanks for all of your replies, I guess time and patience together with a developed method for searching for targets could help, but I still think that it could be harder than in reality.

 

I mean as far as I understand, in real life chopper pilots (and any other pilots) will be constantly communicating with each other, base and maybe ground troops, who will direct and help in identifying targets. I see that this is not represented in Black Shark.

 

Hello GRoss.

 

Please feel free to join our 104th dedictaed server and our TeamSpeak3. There are extensive briefs posted on our website, with maps of target areas, etc. We have multiple channels in TS3 for flight groups to be in constant communication with as well.

 

http://www.104thphoenix.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewforum&f=4

 

Anyone is welcome anytime...:D

 

S!