Multiplayer Interface Improvements?

[Grimes]

I'm gonna start off by saying I don't have the beta yet due to financial reasons. Had I known the pre-order beta was being released 5 weeks ago when I decided to buy Starcraft 2 I.... probably would have gotten starcraft 2 anyways... but it would have taken a MUCH longer time to decide which is the better choice. All of my info regarding multiplayer is collected from squadmates and comments I've seen on forums, so if anything is wrong feel free to correct me.

 

My understanding is there are thus far very few improvements to the multiplayer interface. I'm not talking about basic server list sorting or other simple features within the server browser that most modern games have in some form of functionality in one way or another. I'm discussing the interface a player sees when they join a server. I feel the most important aspect of a modern game is multiplayer. Unless its got a good single player experience I can't stick with a game that doesn't have MP for to long. Its just my nature, I'd rather learn the A-10 systems or practice flying online with friends than doing it solely in single player.

 

From my information the briefing screen is identical to that of BS. Now if an ED developer comes out and says, "but Grimes it isn't done yet or we haven't made that part yet" I'd understand, but still question the overall logic of waiting so long to work on it and general lack of discussion regarding it.

 

Are there planned improvements?

If so, what are they?

 

I remember when the the implementation of the "mission planner" was announced for FC2. A few of us jumped with joy thinking that the MP interface would be changed so that you can work with another player and plan a flight path... but those dreams were crushed as it is only for single player use.

 

Even though I'm not in the beta currently I feel its important to bring up such an issue before the game is released. Cause lets face it, ED isn't exactly known for adding features to a game post release. Sure they gave Black Shark a new sound engine, but that patch was tied directly to a product release and the subsequent required compatibility patch they had to release. Had FC2 not existed, chances are the added features of the compatibility patch would not be released until the Black Shark to DCS:A10 patch would be released.

[c0ff]

question the overall logic of waiting so long to work on it and general lack of discussion regarding it.

 

Simply not enough manpower. And the discussion will look like a false promise.

[104th_Crunch]

Thanks Coff for chiming in. Since really the A-10C will really mostly be played cooperatively, perhaps multi-play is not so much a priority. I hope though when DCS introduces a fighter and the focus will be player vs. player in multi-play, MP can take a larger priority. The amount of work involved is appreciated.

Edited October 13, 2010 by Crunch

[Grimes]

Crunch.... you do realize that co-op IS multiplayer right? I doubt proper team vs team will become a reality until we start to see more flyable aircraft. With Black Shark MP games were almost exclusively JIP co-ops, I'm sure it will remain the same for the A10.

 

C0ff, thats sad to here. Perhaps a public discussion of the users interest in improving this aspect of the game could help persuade more man power to be used.

[Boberro]

Worth to notice that most game UI is based in LUA, so everyone who knows that language and is willingly can add sorting options. I don't mention chat, or server players' list due it'd be difficult to create, but even poor, simple sort options would be nice.

[Kegetys]

I haven't tried A10C multiplayer and only played a limited amount of FC2 multiplayer, but I would like some more focus on co-op multiplayer capability. Ability to have better briefings (in FC2 only one briefing picture works for example) and better planning & loadout settings. Being able to disable respawning would be nice as well to help resist the temptation to just get a new plane when you die ;)

 

Something I did notice in the mission editor that you can now assign multiple planes on the same flight as clients. This is nice already as you dont need to duplicate the waypoints and triggers for every player (assuming it works :)).

[104th_Crunch]

Crunch.... you do realize that co-op IS multiplayer right? I doubt proper team vs team will become a reality until we start to see more flyable aircraft. With Black Shark MP games were almost exclusively JIP co-ops, I'm sure it will remain the same for the A10.

 

C0ff, thats sad to here. Perhaps a public discussion of the users interest in improving this aspect of the game could help persuade more man power to be used.

 

Yes, of course co-op is MP, and a very important part of it. Just that without PvP you're missing a huge part of the pie, that's all.

[Cali]

Crunch.... you do realize that co-op IS multiplayer right? I doubt proper team vs team will become a reality until we start to see more flyable aircraft. With Black Shark MP games were almost exclusively JIP co-ops, I'm sure it will remain the same for the A10.

 

C0ff, thats sad to here. Perhaps a public discussion of the users interest in improving this aspect of the game could help persuade more man power to be used.

 

I don't ever think multiplayer is ever going to be used like many would see it used. The reason is that people hop in and out of servers all the time. They do it without being on comms and not having a plan on what they want to do...besides to kill things. Red flags and other things on that level are designed for players to come up with plans/routes and strategies to fight their enemy. Normal mp is never like this. Also, you most people don't really care if they live or die. How many times have you seen players running out of fuel 50 miles from their base and still trying to fight? The same goes for when they run out of missiles and try to engage multi guys with only guns.

 

Maybe if DCS had built in comms it would work, but that is something I don't think we'll ever find out.

[Kuky]

I think we are all guilty of this Cali at some point :)

 

Coops are lot of fun actually and I think getting few buddies to fly a certain mission is most fun... for A2A you want unpredictibility so people joining/leaving all the time is no issue.

 

I am very glad to hear you can have more then 1 client aircraft per flight, I will have to try it out soon to see if it works.

[104th_Crunch]

...I am very glad to hear you can have more then 1 client aircraft per flight, I will have to try it out soon to see if it works.

 

I am sure you are aware of Blindspot's mission editor mod for FC2/BS. It has a great copy client feature in it as well as other great features. ED was nice enough to take note and include a few things from it in the A-10C beta thus far, like trigger arranging and the or function. New triggers are in there as well for Grimes to play with :joystick:

 

There is no copy AI object function in the Beta yet that I see though. That is a great feature in Blindspot's mod for copying client aircraft as well as all other AI objects. Hope to see it in the editor as well if possible sometime in DCS.

[diveplane]

nice if there was a lobby chat feature added into it, maybe later on.

[Jesse]

Wait, you guys are talking about multiplayer UI when there isn't even dedicated server software???

 

:huh:

[Grimes]

We know dedicated server software is an eventual goal, its just a question of when will it be implemented. Generally speaking MP in the DCS series maxes out at 8 players, whereas in FC2 seeing 20+ players in a server is common place. Sure a dedicated server software can help, but in the grand scheme of things not having such software is something the squads have gotten quite used to.

 

I'm not entirely talking about the server browser either. Yes it could use improvements, but I'm more concerned with what the player sees once they join a server. For as complex of a sim this is, the briefing is incredibly simplified and we could see some pretty creative and useful UI changes improve the overall game experience.

[Total]

My finances are limited at the moment and I am REALLY EXERCISING ALOT OF SELF DISCLIPLING to NOT spend money I don't have and buy into the beta....

 

dang I want to though lol!!!

 

Grimes does bring up a good point. Briefings are a key component in any military operation.

 

I hate to reference another program, but ArmA2 has a really good briefing screen and it's based basic text files (well, sqf files, but there's not anything considered "code" in them). It's basically an overlay on the map with the ability to make sections in the briefing rather than one long string of text. This is accessible anytime a player pulls up the map during the mission. Server settings dictate whether the player can see friendly/enemy units on the map (just as in FC2 & DCS).

 

Just food for thought for a future patch. I wouldn't suggest anything like this for the release since the "To Do" list for release has almost assuredly already been made (as the initial patch list as well lol). Been in too many beta tests to know the priority of things.

 

Here's some images of the ArmA2 mission briefing as reference:

[c0ff]

Worth to notice that most game UI is based in LUA, so everyone who knows that language and is willingly can add sorting options.

Unfortunately, MP UI is not in Lua. Yet.

 

Maybe if DCS had built in comms it would work, but that is something I don't think we'll ever find out.

I still hope to do it.

 

Something I did notice in the mission editor that you can now assign multiple planes on the same flight as clients. This is nice already as you dont need to duplicate the waypoints and triggers for every player (assuming it works :)).

That's already "fixed", i.e. removed. Because it does not work. To work it needs a hefty amount of code to be redesigned.

 

nice if there was a lobby chat feature added into it, maybe later on.

May be.

 

Grimes does bring up a good point. Briefings are a key component in any military operation.

Briefing will get an ability to show several images. But that's it.

[Oscar]

Grimes has a point, and I asked about some help in this area in the Wishlist awhile back:

 

HTML and external program linkage within the Mission Briefing and Debriefing screens.

 

Ability to embed HTML links in the Mission Briefing and Debriefing screens to external resources. Minimum requirements: url /url, u /u, b /b, i /i, img /img, etc.

 

Ability to embed a link to run an external application in windowed-mode. For Example: The ability to execute TacView from the Mission Debriefing screen.

 

Being able to link in a couple of pictures to a mission briefing is fine, but it presumes that someone else has already done the mission planning and you're just supposed to follow along. Rigid and not flexible - especially for multiplayer servers running missions based on goal accomplishment before they recycle. The problem is that there is no "multi-player 'cooperative' mission planning capability". I think we can 'get by' without the integrated VoIP (we've been doing that for quite awhile now), but, if we could just have the capability to embed even one external http(s) link in the mission briefing, then I think we, as a community, can take it from there and develop a cooperative mission planner using any one of the available web-based whiteboard applications that can be run off the same/other squad servers as the hosted game. We can make it happen, we just need a 'gateway' in the mission briefing/debriefing text areas that will allow us to integrate the features we need.

[c0ff]

if we could just have the capability to embed even one external http(s) link in the mission briefing, then I think we, as a community, can take it from there and develop a cooperative mission planner using any one of the available web-based whiteboard applications that can be run off the same/other squad servers as the hosted game. We can make it happen, we just need a 'gateway' in the mission briefing/debriefing text areas that will allow us to integrate the features we need.

 

That's a VERY good idea!

Another vote for embedded browser.

 

EDIT: However, it requires a significant development effort. I don't think we have enough resources for it.

Edited October 14, 2010 by c0ff

[GGTharos]

c0ff, can't you just integrate IE? I mean in theory this should be 'relatively' easy in terms of integrating the browser itself ... now game -> browser integration, where game data is passed to the browser, I don't know.

[GGTharos]

Can we have a 'flight clone' ie. deep copy button for groups instead then? Pretty please? :D

 

That's already "fixed", i.e. removed. Because it does not work. To work it needs a hefty amount of code to be redesigned.

[c0ff]

Can we have a 'flight clone' ie. deep copy button for groups instead then? Pretty please? :D

 

Forwarded your request to ME developer.

[c0ff]

c0ff, can't you just integrate IE? I mean in theory this should be 'relatively' easy in terms of integrating the browser itself ... now game -> browser integration, where game data is passed to the browser, I don't know.

 

It's 'relatively' easy to integrate WebKit (or Chromium), Gecko, or IE. But we lack resources/expertise for this.

[Oscar]

Thanks Dmitry - at least its on the table for discussion/exploration.

[GGTharos]

Thank you, and, I hear you.

 

I know that perhaps this isn't something that normally gets discussed in public, but is there a policy for including use-made mods to the ME or to the interface is any case?

I am guessing that this for now will not apply to MP because of program structure (ie. for MP you have to change the source code before compilation since it isn't in LUA)