New to sims, got a chance..?

[llama]

Thanks for that little mission Tango! Having something without all the distractions helped me

:)

 

 

lol...I am not even to the landing part yet. It may not have been pretty, but you know what they say about landings ;)

[Tango]

but you know what they say about landings

..."May your landings equal your takeoffs"!!! :lol:

 

Best regards,

Tango.

[Bedouin]

Thanks all for the very incouraging messages... At the moment i feel just all the different special words is a problem, and also understanding what is what and what does what or what is good for... okay sounded funny !!

 

But i guess it will help when i get my hands on the manual..!

[Squid_DK]

Bedouin, there's several danes and scandinavians here that I'm certain would bewilling to help, but do try to go over the manual it isn't that hard if your english is fair.

 

Staffan

[Steel Jaw]

Oh no, don't start mower off with Lock On lol... it's worse than his Allied Force rants :P

 

Have you SEEN AF? Ugly, ugly...UGLY.

[Succellus]

Have you SEEN AF? Ugly, ugly...UGLY.

 

 

OMG! Its ugly because its OLD. But we still lack a f16 or multirole sim that come that close. Especially with dinamyc campaign, which IMO is a blast well over branched campaign at any given time.

Dinamic campaign started with OLD DID ef2000. A pity i doesnt work anymore especially the V2, and ended in Falcon 4.0.

 

As much as i wished, simulators are still games that send the nearest we can get to the living thing, but they are still a game, hardcore ones. In the end you won t get paid to fly them.

[Headspace]

It's important to remember that SIMS aren't games

I'll bite. My apologies of course--may be relatively new to this community but I've been active in other FS communities in the past, and I've been active with the ArmA games for years and the same "it's not a game, it's a sim" mentality shows up in that community as well. Why aren't they games and why is it important for someone who might be new to is particular genre of gaming--who is reasonably concerned about the complexity involved--to remember that "it's not a game?"

[Andrei]

To Original Poster:

 

You definitely have a chance, after all, this is a sim and you do not to be physically fit or have any special training to use it. It is more a matter of personal interest, time investment and desire to have fun.

 

I guess I will take a position of devil's advocate here, given that the community ever since first release of the DCS series has turned to become more "hardcore" together with the sim itself. But it is in my deep belief that you have to learn to crawl before you can consider walking and especially running.

 

So throw the manual into some deep shelf for a while and start... having fun :) First thing I would recommend doing is having all the sliders to the most "unrealistic" (arcade) mode and start messing around. Forget about cold start, begin from runway with engines running, or even better, in the air. Fly, do some wicked aerobatics, crashland, etc, etc. In process you will be learning basic principles of flight, behavior of the aircraft. You will be amazed how much things can you learn by just "doing" stuff in easy mode, without glancing in the book, using just common sense and instincts. At the same time you will probably have good time without sleepless nights spent reading and thinking "I will never understand all of that".

 

Over the time, however, if you will still be interested in sim, messing around will get eventually boring and you will start wondering how this or that aspect is "properly" done in real live. That's where RTFMing will come in. But at this point you will have a lot of practical experience in basics of the simulation, so most of the things will start to make good sense by the first time you read about them.

 

And about final piece of advice. When you study something - don't attempt to memorize some procedure by heart - the most important thing is to understand the principle. For instance when you will be in position to learn how to land the plane in fully realistic mode, don't try to memorize required speeds, limitations ,when you have to deploy flaps and gear, etc.. Rather have a look at the procedure in general, remember your experiences from messing around and think for a minute "does this make sense based on what I have done before and why?" If what's written does make sense in general, you now have overall understanding how to do it properly. Practice some more, to land better. Eventually you will see that what you are doing is very close to the real world, maybe with some slight deviations which do not contradict "proper way". After that it is all about fine tuning.

 

I hope it makes some sense to you what I've written here. All I can say now is - Good Luck :)

 

P.S. I would expect a bit of flaming on this post, but I really don't give a damn ;) Afterall, it's just one of the options for Original Poster.

[Squid_DK]

I'll bite. My apologies of course--may be relatively new to this community but I've been active in other FS communities in the past, and I've been active with the ArmA games for years and the same "it's not a game, it's a sim" mentality shows up in that community as well. Why aren't they games and why is it important for someone who might be new to is particular genre of gaming--who is reasonably concerned about the complexity involved--to remember that "it's not a game?"

 

My take on this is that simulations require a lot more user effort to master the product, as an example: Most people can pilot the default MS B744 in FSX, but if you purchase the PMDG 744 you get an entirely new and much more demanding and rewarding experience, in an effect the add on product changes a game to a sim because it simulates the systems on the plane.

Same with the LockOn/FC A-10A it is a very game oriented plane, comparing that to the DCS A-10C is an enterely different ballgame.

Most users propably don't know the difference but when you compare them up close.

Another example would be Call of Duty against Armed Assault II the first is a game the second I'd call an infantry sim.

 

Staffan

[Headspace]

My take on this is that simulations require a lot more user effort to master the product, as an example: Most people can pilot the default MS B744 in FSX, but if you purchase the PMDG 744 you get an entirely new and much more demanding and rewarding experience, in an effect the add on product changes a game to a sim because it simulates the systems on the plane.

Same with the LockOn/FC A-10A it is a very game oriented plane, comparing that to the DCS A-10C is an enterely different ballgame.

Most users propably don't know the difference but when you compare them up close.

Another example would be Call of Duty against Armed Assault II the first is a game the second I'd call an infantry sim.

 

Staffan

I guess it's just a matter of semantics, then, because to me, a game is something you play for entertainment purposes, and a sim is something that attempts to simulate a thing or set of things. Most modern games are both, because they have some sort of realtime simulation going on. There's probably more difference between CoD and ArmA 2 in terms of their target market, but they're both games.

 

The level of effort you need to put into learning how to play a study sim doesn't detract from the fact that it's a PC game. It's just a game that takes more effort to learn and may or may not introduce a set of real life concepts.

 

ArmA 2's just as much of a game as CoD, it's just a different kind of game.

[kylania]

It's funny because as soon as something isn't ultra realistic in a sim you fall back on the claim of "well, it's just a game!" :)

 

Danish Squid has a nice point in the effort vs reward aspect of these games/sims. One of the most exciting and rewarding missions I ever ran in ArmA2 was an infantry recon mission where I never fired a shot. That's not something you're going to get from a Call of Duty or Medal of Honor game.

 

The ability of a game engine to allow for more than run-n-gun scenarios is one aspect that might push it over into Sim rather than Game. Also the ability for non-combat scenarios. One of the missions in Black Shark was to simply fly over and pick something up from a car and fly back. The difficulty was in the conditions and the flying, not combat.

 

The "study sim" aspect of DCS A-10C and ArmA2 is a big reason I love these games. You can't just jump right in and start playing with either game really and get the full experience. Also the more effort you put into learning about the game the more you can get out of it. That's a real big aspect of a "sim" over a "game" for me at least.

[Rusty_M]

I consider sims to be a type of game. Sometimes I want to be fully engaged in complexities, and then I'll choose a sim. Sometimes I'll want to relax, and just do something ridiculous, then I'll play a less realistic game. I see it as two sides of the same coin.

[Bedouin]

ahh, perfect. Will buy TrackIR-5 on thursday then download the beta, the wife and children has a party friday night and saturday night so two whole nights home alone with my new mistress A-10C Warthog...

 

Is pedals a good extra item to invest in, since i choose to stay with my X52 Hotas, i got some extra cash for relevant items...?? Or do you suggest something other...

[timc]

To Original Poster:

 

You definitely have a chance, after all, this is a sim and you do not to be physically fit or have any special training to use it. It is more a matter of personal interest, time investment and desire to have fun.

 

I guess I will take a position of devil's advocate here, given that the community ever since first release of the DCS series has turned to become more "hardcore" together with the sim itself. But it is in my deep belief that you have to learn to crawl before you can consider walking and especially running.

 

So throw the manual into some deep shelf for a while and start... having fun :) First thing I would recommend doing is having all the sliders to the most "unrealistic" (arcade) mode and start messing around. Forget about cold start, begin from runway with engines running, or even better, in the air. Fly, do some wicked aerobatics, crashland, etc, etc. In process you will be learning basic principles of flight, behavior of the aircraft. You will be amazed how much things can you learn by just "doing" stuff in easy mode, without glancing in the book, using just common sense and instincts. At the same time you will probably have good time without sleepless nights spent reading and thinking "I will never understand all of that".

 

Over the time, however, if you will still be interested in sim, messing around will get eventually boring and you will start wondering how this or that aspect is "properly" done in real live. That's where RTFMing will come in. But at this point you will have a lot of practical experience in basics of the simulation, so most of the things will start to make good sense by the first time you read about them.

 

And about final piece of advice. When you study something - don't attempt to memorize some procedure by heart - the most important thing is to understand the principle. For instance when you will be in position to learn how to land the plane in fully realistic mode, don't try to memorize required speeds, limitations ,when you have to deploy flaps and gear, etc.. Rather have a look at the procedure in general, remember your experiences from messing around and think for a minute "does this make sense based on what I have done before and why?" If what's written does make sense in general, you now have overall understanding how to do it properly. Practice some more, to land better. Eventually you will see that what you are doing is very close to the real world, maybe with some slight deviations which do not contradict "proper way". After that it is all about fine tuning.

 

I hope it makes some sense to you what I've written here. All I can say now is - Good Luck :)

 

P.S. I would expect a bit of flaming on this post, but I really don't give a damn ;) Afterall, it's just one of the options for Original Poster.

 

Having loitered around a few sim forums over the past years I've seen all manner of advice in relation to getting into something new. This post is one of the best I've read.

[Steel Jaw]

I disagree with starting on all settings arcade.

 

All that means is you have to unlearn things and bad habits when you switch to more realistic settings.

[Scabbers]

pedals are a great idea if you want to get in to the feel of flying

[Andrei]

I disagree with starting on all settings arcade.

 

All that means is you have to unlearn things and bad habits when you switch to more realistic settings.

 

Take into consideration that in case of OP there is nothing to unlearn :) He starts from scratch, as he mentioned that he is new to the aviation sims.

 

As of the bad habits - that is partially true. Partially only to extent that when you go to realistic you will learn why bad habits are bad in a rather... practical manner. After all, the most effective mistakes to learn from are your own :) And here you don't have to pay for learning with your own or other's lives. Very practical as well.

[kylania]

My main problem with pedals is they are apparently designed for use by 12 year old boys being so close together. :doh:

 

Here's some examples: http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3111070/Re_Pre_ordered_Thrustmaster_HO.html

[GGTharos]

If he starts with arcade, there will be plenty to unlearn.

 

Take into consideration that in case of OP there is nothing to unlearn :) He starts from scratch, as he mentioned that he is new to the aviation sims.

 

This is incorrect. Bad habits that you learn for the first time stick with you and are VERY difficult to unlearn. Yeah, sure, you won't make those mistakes 'again' when you're cruising. They'll rear their ugly mugs when you're making the big bucks you're being paid for: Under duress.

 

What you are reccomending is in fact a very bad idea - at least if real aircraft were involved. In game terms it leads to frustration and the player thinks he just plain sucks, when that isn't actually the case. It's 'just a bad habit', but it takes a lot of work to actually make it go away.

 

If someone wants to learn to fly full realism, there's precicely zero reason to even think of touching acrade mode, period. Just set up a plane in-flight (That's right, skip takeoff) and start with straight and level flight. Learn to trim, climb, descend, make turns. And I mean this in the most navigation-proper way, ie. speed-susained gentle descent, speed-sustained climb, speed and altitude sustained turns of up to 60 degrees bank. None of that 'combat yanking and banking'.

 

Once that is mastered and understood, you can move onto handling characteristics (very slow/high AoA flight, riding the stall horns, over-speed) and after that you can get into takeoffs and landings and THEN yanking and banking. You can leave systems for later.

 

As of the bad habits - that is partially true. Partially only to extent that when you go to realistic you will learn why bad habits are bad in a rather... practical manner. After all, the most effective mistakes to learn from are your own :) And here you don't have to pay for learning with your own or other's lives. Very practical as well.

Edited October 19, 2010 by GGTharos

[Andrei]

2GGTharos

 

*sigh*

 

Well, if we continue, we might end up (or at least fueling) in a flame war, such as game vs. Sim; hardcore vs. arcade, etc, etc, which has been discussed already no less than a billion times, so if you want to have further discussion about the subject - we can do that it PM.

 

Original poster has received multiple opinions - up to him to decide what he'll do. Someone is always wrong in the Internets :)

[GGTharos]

No, I think you misunderstand. This is strictly about education, not about hardcore vs. sim or anything of the sort. If you want to be really good at the realistic stuff, you have to follow at least a somewhat realistic curriculum for the reasons posted above.

 

I don't particularly care if people want to play full arcade, partial realism or full realism - just saying that the best way to get yourself educated as far as 'full realism' goes, is what I mentioned above.

 

2GGTharos

 

*sigh*

 

Well, if we continue, we might end up (or at least fueling) a flame war, or game vs. sim; hardcore vs. arcade, etc, which has been discussed already no less than a billion times, so if you want to have further discussion about the subject - we can do that it PM.

 

Original poster has received multiple opinions - up to him to decide what he'll do :)

[JG27_Arklight]

The best thing to do, if you are able, is to join an online virtual squadron (or the like).

 

I learned more flying with JG27 in a year than I did total in all the other years combined.