StrongHarm Posted October 16, 2010 Posted October 16, 2010 Hello, Anyone know if wing anti-ice is modeled? Can't seem to find controls. It's a good thing that this is Early Access and we've all volunteered to help test and enhance this work in progress... despite the frustrations inherent in the task with even the simplest of software... otherwise people might not understand that this incredibly complex unfinished module is unfinished. /light-hearted sarcasm
BlueRidgeDx Posted October 16, 2010 Posted October 16, 2010 The A-10 doesn't have wing or nacelle anti-ice. The only anti-ice provisions are for windshield heat and pitot heat (which anti-ices the pitot tube, AoA vane, and Lift Transducer. "They've got us surrounded again - those poor bastards!" - Lt. Col. Creighton Abrams
JG-1_Vogel Posted October 16, 2010 Posted October 16, 2010 Really? Isn't that a bit dodgey? Thought it would have some kind of anti-ice for the wings... learn something new every day I suppose.
mvsgas Posted October 16, 2010 Posted October 16, 2010 Most US fighter do not have wing anti-ice... I can think of one that does. We have engine anti-ice and pitot but I can think of one that has wing anti-ice. To whom it may concern, I am an idiot, unfortunately for the world, I have a internet connection and a fondness for beer....apologies for that. Thank you for you patience. Many people don't want the truth, they want constant reassurance that whatever misconception/fallacies they believe in are true..
159th_Viper Posted October 16, 2010 Posted October 16, 2010 Most US fighter do not have wing anti-ice.... Ground-Crew + Broom + Ladder = Wing Anti-Ice system :D Novice or Veteran looking for an alternative MP career? Click me to commence your Journey of Pillage and Plunder! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] '....And when I get to Heaven, to St Peter I will tell.... One more Soldier reporting Sir, I've served my time in Hell......'
Eddie Posted October 16, 2010 Posted October 16, 2010 Ground-Crew + Broom + Ladder = Wing Anti-Ice system :D Yep, pretty much this, and if you're really lucky a truck full of aircraft di-icer (glorified antifreeze) to spray around. I can't think of any UK fighter aircraft that have wing/intake anti icing either. Pretty much just the big boring stuff.
mvsgas Posted October 16, 2010 Posted October 16, 2010 Ground-Crew + Broom + Ladder = Wing Anti-Ice system :D Low ranking people are great... you can tell them to do the hard work :D To whom it may concern, I am an idiot, unfortunately for the world, I have a internet connection and a fondness for beer....apologies for that. Thank you for you patience. Many people don't want the truth, they want constant reassurance that whatever misconception/fallacies they believe in are true..
StrongHarm Posted October 16, 2010 Author Posted October 16, 2010 As far as I know they ALL have leading edge wing anti-ice.. I think it just usually isn't modeled in sims. I was an Environmental Systems Tech in the Navy and never met a bird that didn't have it. There are two types; boot de-ice and bleed air anti-ice. Bleed is simply a tube that runs inside the leading edge of the wings that has holes directed at the leading edge (like a water sprinkler). Hot air from the compression section of the engine flows through the tube and heats up the leading edge. The reason you see people on the ground breaking ice off the wings is that you can't effectively use bleed on the ground. Boot de-ice is basically tire like rubber in patches on the leading edge of the wing. You send cooled bleed air to it (bleed-air + ram air) to inflate the sections slightly.. breaking the ice so it flies off the wing. It's a good thing that this is Early Access and we've all volunteered to help test and enhance this work in progress... despite the frustrations inherent in the task with even the simplest of software... otherwise people might not understand that this incredibly complex unfinished module is unfinished. /light-hearted sarcasm
Cali Posted October 16, 2010 Posted October 16, 2010 Ground-Crew + Broom + Ladder = Wing Anti-Ice system :D Actually they have anti-ice trucks, but that doesn't help when they are flying... nice one mvsgas i7-4820k @ 3.7, Windows 7 64-bit, 16GB 1866mhz EVGA GTX 970 2GB, 256GB SSD, 500GB WD, TM Warthog, TM Cougar MFD's, Saitek Combat Pedals, TrackIR 5, G15 keyboard, 55" 4K LED
mvsgas Posted October 16, 2010 Posted October 16, 2010 As far as I know they ALL have leading edge wing anti-ice.. I think it just usually isn't modeled in sims. I was an Environmental Systems Tech in the Navy and never met a bird that didn't have it. There are two types; boot de-ice and bleed air anti-ice. Bleed is simply a tube that runs inside the leading edge of the wings that has holes directed at the leading edge (like a water sprinkler). Hot air from the compression section of the engine flows through the tube and heats up the leading edge. The reason you see people on the ground breaking ice off the wings is that you can't effectively use bleed on the ground. Boot de-ice is basically tire like rubber in patches on the leading edge of the wing. You send cooled bleed air to it (bleed-air + ram air) to inflate the sections slightly.. breaking the ice so it flies off the wing. Nope, no wing anti ice in USAF fighters To whom it may concern, I am an idiot, unfortunately for the world, I have a internet connection and a fondness for beer....apologies for that. Thank you for you patience. Many people don't want the truth, they want constant reassurance that whatever misconception/fallacies they believe in are true..
Focha Posted October 16, 2010 Posted October 16, 2010 You guys are talking of De-Ice not Anti-Ice. Strange not having anti-ice... I wonder how much ice A10s got in their wings in the ferries over Atlantic...? ASUS N552VX | i7-6700HQ @ 2.59GHz | 16 GB DDR3 | NVIDIA GF GTX 950M 4 Gb | 250 Gb SSD | 1 Tb HD SATA II Backup | TIR4 | Microsoft S. FF 2+X52 Throttle+Saitek Pedals | Win 10 64 bits
aaron886 Posted October 16, 2010 Posted October 16, 2010 It's a pretty firmly VFR aircraft. It's made to fly low and get shot at, not dance around above freezing level. I'm sure ferrying the thing is an exercise in planning.
StrongHarm Posted October 17, 2010 Author Posted October 17, 2010 Perhaps Navy aircraft all have leading edge anti-ice because they're rated for arctic ops from carriers... It's a good thing that this is Early Access and we've all volunteered to help test and enhance this work in progress... despite the frustrations inherent in the task with even the simplest of software... otherwise people might not understand that this incredibly complex unfinished module is unfinished. /light-hearted sarcasm
mvsgas Posted October 21, 2010 Posted October 21, 2010 (edited) Sometimes, I forget some of the great aviation websites out there. Here is one on F-15E that briefly describes the wing. - root rib support struts - main wing spars - machined wing ribs - trailing edge fuel tank - flap hydraulic actuator - flap - aileron hydraulic actuator - aileron - honeycomb core structure - fuel jettison pipe - anti-collision light - HF flush aerial panel - pylon attachment hardpoint - leading edge fuel tank - wing fuel tank - fuel tank sealing rib - leading edge ribs - machined skin panels - outer wing panel ribs - wing tip fairing - ECM antenna dome - navigation light - formation light strip Leading and trailing edges are of conventional light alloy rib and skin construction, while the wingtips are of aluminium honeycomb construction. No spoilers, trim tabs or anti-ice systems are fitted. Flaps (inboard) and ailerons (outboard) are of a honeycomb structure. http://www.f-15e.info/joomla/en/technology/airframe/64-wings Edited October 21, 2010 by mvsgas To whom it may concern, I am an idiot, unfortunately for the world, I have a internet connection and a fondness for beer....apologies for that. Thank you for you patience. Many people don't want the truth, they want constant reassurance that whatever misconception/fallacies they believe in are true..
mikoyan Posted October 21, 2010 Posted October 21, 2010 what about the russians do they have anti ice devices? For the f-15 I kind understand it; since it operates where the air is very dry; but can't understand why it is not fitted on the a-10.
Stretch Posted October 21, 2010 Posted October 21, 2010 It's a pretty firmly VFR aircraft. It's made to fly low and get shot at, not dance around above freezing level. I'm sure ferrying the thing is an exercise in planning. With a full GPS/INS nav suite, a TGP that can see through clouds, NVG and NVIS lighting, and ILS capability, I disagree. Tim "Stretch" Morgan 72nd VFW, 617th VFS Other handles: Strikeout (72nd VFW, 15th MEU Realism Unit), RISCfuture (BMS forums) PC and Peripherals: https://pcpartpicker.com/user/RISCfuture/saved/#view=DMp6XL Win10 x64 — BMS — DCS — P3D
slug88 Posted October 21, 2010 Posted October 21, 2010 With a full GPS/INS nav suite, a TGP that can see through clouds, NVG and NVIS lighting, and ILS capability, I disagree. Maybe in game, but surely not in real life. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Panzertard Posted October 21, 2010 Posted October 21, 2010 Gents, TGP/clouds, beta, WIP. <--- Topic this way. The mind is like a parachute. It only works when it's open | The important thing is not to stop questioning
MrYenko Posted October 22, 2010 Posted October 22, 2010 With a full GPS/INS nav suite, a TGP that can see through clouds, NVG and NVIS lighting, and ILS capability, I disagree. All those systems were added in later versions, and all are much easier to retrofit to the airframe than anti-ice. Particularly bleed-air anti-ice, which requires rather substantial structural integration. The original A-10 is a much different, simpler, beast than the C model that is portrayed in this sim. Also, most Cessna 172's have ILS receivers. :P
Stretch Posted October 22, 2010 Posted October 22, 2010 ... aaaaand most Cessna 172s are IFR-capable. Tim "Stretch" Morgan 72nd VFW, 617th VFS Other handles: Strikeout (72nd VFW, 15th MEU Realism Unit), RISCfuture (BMS forums) PC and Peripherals: https://pcpartpicker.com/user/RISCfuture/saved/#view=DMp6XL Win10 x64 — BMS — DCS — P3D
aaron886 Posted October 22, 2010 Posted October 22, 2010 Perhaps Navy aircraft all have leading edge anti-ice because they're rated for arctic ops from carriers... Typically no. Not the Hornet at least. It has bleed air vents for the canopy to keep it clear, but nothing else. I guess maybe the thinking is that a fast jet can move in and out of icing conditions as needed. Typically, with a t/w ratio like the Hornet, you can bust right through a layer of icing and be on top in maybe a minute... not long enough to accumulate anything.
hassata Posted October 22, 2010 Posted October 22, 2010 That's hornet SOP in weather. AB on, vertical, burst out on top. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Kim Silva Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 Quote : Perhaps Navy aircraft all have leading edge anti-ice because they're rated for arctic ops from carriers... Therefore you need to understand that with the dry arctic-air there is like almost no Ice-accreditation on the LE of any airframe, so the worst ice scenario is when the temps are around -2°C til -5°C degrees, where supercooled water droplets, (means water, which aren't frozen yet) drop on the LE during flight, get slightly formed/guided towards the center of pressure of the wing (still liquid and around 0°C and the freezes, due to the impact force after cooling down again, by the wind-flow. Thus will reform the LE into something, where you will have a reduced lift-coefficient, increased drag, reduces max AoA and so on... So much about the arctic problem, where you just need to defrost the airframe on the ground, because of the much lower temperatures, where supercooled water droplets do no occur at all. All moisture in the air is frozen to little crystals, and do not interfere with the LE or any other party of the airframe during flight! I fact I was also surprised that the A10C does not have Wing or Engine Anti Ice. As being build to fly low, during the cold war, (major battlefield based in Europe), where you have like 60% of the year dealings with supercooled waterdroplets due to weather phenomena, where you need to deal with maritime polar, tropical maritime, westerly waves (all are filled with supercooled water droplets), which can fall down to several 1000ths feed. Especially during the winter-periods, in Europe, this aircraft would be kind of useless for like 60-80% of the time. I do remember, weeks, during my education In Essen (North-Rhine Westfalia), where our full IFR Chessnas, Pipers and Diamont Aircrafts, where just standing around, due to bad weather. I mean, it is not a joke, that weather, is despite a full airspace is the biggest hazard here in Europe. The conditions aren't anything for pussies, or sunny weather gliders. So still I think, that I must be something missing here, not having anti/device devices (via hot air flow) mounted on the A10... Maybe, the aircraft first wasn't intended to be based here. I don't know! I hope somebody does and will tell us :-) I´m gonna go :joystick: 1
badger66 Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 Most US fighter do not have wing anti-ice... I can think of one that does. We have engine anti-ice and pitot but I can think of one that has wing anti-ice. Which one ?
quyes Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 I think that it's important here to note that there are different scenarios as to when icing is a problem. You can get icing conditions on good weather days and bad weather days. On the good days you can avoid the icing conditions by staying above or below the icing layer, if you have to go into the icing layer you just drop out of it for awhile and the icing is removed. This is how most of your single engine GA aircraft that don't have wing anti-ice operate, this is even easier for a military aircraft that has better performance (ie: climb-rates, service ceilings, and O2 systems) as they have more options available then the GA pilot. You then have icing with bad weather, usually storm related. In this case combat operations generally wouldn't be flown in the weather due to the reduced visibility. All other air support would be provided from above the weather, and therefore most likely above the icing danger, using GPS guided munitions. For non-combat operations such as shuttling flights they'd just punch through the bad weather quickly. In the case of the good weather icing you can easily work around it by altering your flight profile, depending on air defense capabilities. In the case of bad weather icing, the icing isn't your big problem the lack of visibility is. You can't kill an enemy you can't see. Sure the A10 can drop GPS guided bombs, and if it's an attack on stationary targets with known positions then you're good to go. However, the A10 is going to be hunting tanks which by definition are mobile an providing CAS which again involves high rates of mobility. In both of these scenarios establishing GPS coordinates and then relaying them to the pilot takes too long, by the time the bomb drops the target has moved. This is why I believe there's not wing anti-ice for this aircraft, it just doesn't need it. The A10 will either get above or below the icing, and if it can't do that there's probably a visibility issue so even if it could fly in the ice it wouldn't be able to accurately and effectively deploy its weapons.
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