First weekend impressions with the TM WARTHOG

[epokha]

When I receive my warthog I shouldn't go into TARGET? Should I just install the driver and not install the program?

[kylania]

Only thing that I DESPERATELY miss is the X52's stick-rudder :-(

 

How are you getting around the lack of twist? Do you have pedals or using something else?

 

When I receive my warthog I shouldn't go into TARGET? Should I just install the driver and not install the program?

 

Seems a safe bet. It's what I'm going to do (or not do I guess) whenever I get mine.

[CrashEd]

I can definately say that it's improved my control of the aircraft (and therefore the controlled launching of weapons).

 

It's changed me from a mediocre pilot into a lean, efficient killing machine :D (ok, not so lean ;))

 

 

Get yourself some real rudder pedals, it's what basic flying is all about. It really adds to it all :thumbup:

 

Forget about TARGET for now, you don't need it. Just plug both stick and throttle in and it should install the drivers automatically iirc. If not, install TARGET and forget about it. TARGET is porked for now unless you switch to a US location/keyboard layout. It should be fixed soon, according to Guillaume, but you don't need it just yet. DCS: A10 will do the rest :)

Edited November 1, 2010 by CrashEd

[Cali]

 

So far the only little problem is the muscle fatique on my trigger fingers :)

I might get muscle fatigue on the right hand too. I guess A-10 pilots are rough guys anyway.

 

Some pilots would surprise you, you would think they are far from being a pilot.

[Case]

Thanks for the write up Coolts!

 

Big footprint. If you have small desk..... Your keyboard can rest on the base plate though as its only a few mm thick. Couldn’t do that with the Cougar!

 

Can you provide some numbers for the size of the base of both stick and throttle? It seems the stick base is quite a bit larger than the Cougar.

[coolts]

stick base plate 23x27cm

throttle 15x26cm

 

the base plate is 4mm thick so you can rest stuff on it, (you may have to), unlike the cougar

[Case]

stick base plate 23x27cm

throttle 15x26cm

 

Thanks! The stick base is indeed a bit wider than the Cougar, which was 18cm wide if I remember correctly. I may have to make some changes to my HOTAS table if I get this one.

[Kuky]

The stick base of TM Warthog seems perfect to cut out and screw the base into between legs position since it's very narrow... anyway, that's what I'd do :)

[mrsparkle1811]

The stick base of TM Warthog seems perfect to cut out and screw the base into between legs position since it's very narrow... anyway, that's what I'd do :)

 

No need to cut, the base can be removed by taking out some screws.

[Teej]

Yeah, the Warthog's stick base is held on by 4 'M4' screws. Perfect for removal and mounting to the base of your choice.

[GGTharos]

I'd say this is a 'for' thing - they feel like the real deal actually, and you aren't going to push a button accidentally and NOT know it.

 

· Buttons are very stiff. Military grade based on real USAF weightings. You either live with that or don’t. I don’t mind. I’m getting used to it. I will build stronger fingers.

 

Again, I can't see how this could have been 'against' ... every time you target an enemy you're giving them the finger with a wiggle ;)

 

Joking aside, this is the one hat that is not like the real one. In the real deal it isn't a micro-stick - that entire hat moves, much like a dish inside a bowl, and you get (IMHO) a larger range of motion and more feedback from the real thing.

 

· Slew hat designed for your middle finger. I don’t know about you but my middle finger isn’t that manoeuvrable ;) It makes target acquisition interesting. Again, another thing to get used to. Real hog pilots must do.

[coolts]

To me, the force required is just something to get used to and, your right, it make mistakes less likely. I only put it in the 'against' list as i know many will complain about it. They did about the Cougar and that had buttons a moth could push those buttons.

 

I think pointing out that there are real life girl pilots may put most off from complaining. Its a man thing ;)

 

The slew hat is taking a lot of getting used to. Beta2 seems to have fixed the wild movement when zoomed in but i havent yet had time to see whether the STAT page can control the slew rate.

[Teej]

Joking aside, this is the one hat that is not like the real one. In the real deal it isn't a micro-stick - that entire hat moves, much like a dish inside a bowl, and you get (IMHO) a larger range of motion and more feedback from the real thing.

 

Just a guess...I'll bet there was a problem finding a hall sensor component like that that wasn't hypersensitive to the weight of the hat itself and had the pushbutton function. TM isn't in the switch design/manufacture business after all and you have to either go with what's out there or $pec out your own part$.

[GGTharos]

That is what I figured also, but I haven't asked them.

[topdog]

With throttles separated, I get 2-3mm back/forward in the right one and 2-3,, left to right in the left one. Friction doesn’t affect this, just the actual travel. Can you confirm this? As if mine does and yours doesn’t, Mr Amazon is getting an RMA.

 

I get the littlest amount of movement but it isn't affecting the steadiness of the control's current position (i.e. doesn't make the inputs wobble back and forth) so just means that until I hit (inside a mm or two) the tactile range to push the throttle forward or back it's a little loose.

 

I really hadn't even noticed it except to check after your post though.

 

I have a similar range of movement on the stick itself actually, it is very slight, but in that instance it can nudge the control input up or down a little. Still isn't presenting itself as anything of a problem though, as with the throttle it is steady where it is left, what would have been a problem for me is slop that includes drift or imprecise readings when stationary, neither of which happen and the rest of the action of both throttle and stick movements are exemplary IMO.

[heliosjet]

stick: No centre play at all.

 

I do have some kind of center play when moving down /back the stick, something like 1 mm. Not sure if i'm clear, nobody see something when pulling the stick? Some little mechanical transition moving back the stick not happening forward or left/right.

 

EDIT: got probably a lemon since the Y axis is not always the same number (variations from 32428 to 32768 ) all the time in TARGET when centered :(

Edited November 3, 2010 by heliosjet

[Callsign.Vega]

Can anyone comment on the quality versus the Cougar? The Cougar sold for $200 yet this Warthog is $500+. I know hall sensors are an upgrade and it has switches on the throttle base, but I guess I don't see where the 2.5 times the price of the Cougar comes from.

 

Being made in China for peanuts I am sure TM is making a huge profit on these.

[hassata]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation

[159th_Viper]

Can anyone comment on the quality versus the Cougar? The Cougar sold for $200 yet this Warthog is $500+. I know hall sensors are an upgrade and it has switches on the throttle base, but I guess I don't see where the 2.5 times the price of the Cougar comes from.

 

Being made in China for peanuts I am sure TM is making a huge profit on these.

 

Selling for the same price as a Saitek X65F.......Warthog's a bargain!

 

As for quality, I'd conservatively reckon on a 200% improvement on stock and a (**never ever thought I'd say this**) 100% improvement on the UberII Nxt Mod - it's just that good!

 

Thrustmaster has kicked the entire Flight-Stick market squarely in the nuts with this release. Nothing comes close to touching the HOTAS Warthog and probably never will for years to come. Simply superb......But please do not take my word for it - see if you can test-drive one if you're interested.

 

Me - I'm Happy!

[ronht]

Can anyone comment on the quality versus the Cougar? The Cougar sold for $200 yet this Warthog is $500+. I know hall sensors are an upgrade and it has switches on the throttle base, but I guess I don't see where the 2.5 times the price of the Cougar comes from.

 

Being made in China for peanuts I am sure TM is making a huge profit on these.

 

Let's not forget the problems the original Cougar quickly had with the spiking pots! They looked and felt GREAT but after a few hours they were spiking as badly as a $20 off the shelf joystick from BestBuy.

 

I think the key here is remembering that the $200 Cougar needed about $200 in modifications to get it to the quality that the highly mod-ed Cougars are still giving us today.

 

I have mod-ed both my Cougar joystick and throttle with metal hats and hall sensors all around and it is a fantastic product that has held up nicely, but it took a lot more than the original purchase price to get it there.

 

I love my Cougar and have no interest in getting rid of it, however, I am really looking forward to getting the new Warthog which my FedEx tracking says should arrive here tomorrow! :D

 

ronht

[Teej]

The Cougar sold for $200...but not until about 7 years after its release. It came out at over $300 and couldn't be had for less for years. If you take the initial selling price of the Cougar and adjust for inflation, you're right in the initial price range of the Warthog.

 

As to the Cougar "needing" mods right off the bat...most people (who aren't as finnicky as us) would disagree. They sold over 40,000 of those things. Ask IJ how many Ubers he made....and Arend how many FCCs...and Realsim how many FSSBs....

 

I'm willing to bet over 90% of Cougars are unmodified. 95% wouldn't surprise me either. The only warthog mods I can think of as worthwhile might be a slight reprofiling of the afterburner detent...and the primary reason for that is I can't seem to find a setting in lockon for telling the sim where your afterburner kicks in. Falcon had that 12 years ago. :D

[GGTharos]

The scripting software takes care of that. I have it set so that when I hit the AB detent my engines are at MIL. Go over it, AB. Go back down, MIL.

[Joe]

The only warthog mods I can think of as worthwhile might be a slight reprofiling of the afterburner detent...and the primary reason for that is I can't seem to find a setting in lockon for telling the sim where your afterburner kicks in. Falcon had that 12 years ago. :D

Teej,

 

Use the J-curve settings in T.A.R.G.E.T. to reprofile your throttle curve. The T.A.R.G.E.T. manual does a good job of explaining how to do this and why it is useful (i.e. for sims without an afterburner throttle setpoint).

Edited November 3, 2010 by Joe

[Cali]

The Cougar sold for $200...but not until about 7 years after its release. It came out at over $300 and couldn't be had for less for years. If you take the initial selling price of the Cougar and adjust for inflation, you're right in the initial price range of the Warthog.

 

As to the Cougar "needing" mods right off the bat...most people (who aren't as finnicky as us) would disagree. They sold over 40,000 of those things. Ask IJ how many Ubers he made....and Arend how many FCCs...and Realsim how many FSSBs....

 

I'm willing to bet over 90% of Cougars are unmodified. 95% wouldn't surprise me either. The only warthog mods I can think of as worthwhile might be a slight reprofiling of the afterburner detent...and the primary reason for that is I can't seem to find a setting in lockon for telling the sim where your afterburner kicks in. Falcon had that 12 years ago. :D

 

I can bet that 90% of the people with unmodded cougars don't fly very hard also. Flying a unmodded cougar in a dogfight is next to impossible or very hard. It would probably be better to use your keyboard instead. Yes they might have sold 40,000 of them, but how many were put in storage soon after the spiking and other problems arose? I'm not bashing the cougar, I have one now. But how many people have switched over from the cougar?

[GGTharos]

I flew an unmodded cougar into dogfights ... worked okay. The Warthog is much, much better in terms of desired accuracy both in g and pipper control. You really have to have two very equal individuals to see the difference though.