My Hotas WH died

[Teej]

We really do not know the actual numbers of how many. I find it unusual for it to be the same problem. Not random different issues going wrong and going wrong so soon.

 

On the contrary, "random different issues" occurring over a longer period of time indicate design flaws...such as the 360's inadequate cooling, and how it lets go in various places.

 

Individual electronic component issues (sensors, processors, memory, etc) tend to follow what's referred to as the "bathtub curve". When you look at the population as a whole, there's a higher 'infant mortality' followed by a long steady period of few errors before parts start hitting end of life and the errors rise again....when plotted, the curve of failures vs time looks like the cross section of a bathtub.

 

Can't say for sure yet, but compared to the two scenarios above, the problems with the throttles so far tends to indicate a problem with a batch of chips rather than a design flaw.

 

If we start to see the same number of throttles die in the 3rd, 6th, 12th, etc week as have died in the first week...that would swing indications towards a design problem.

 

I did also actively try to duplicate the problem with all sorts of strange plugging/unplugging sequences of my Warthog, power off, power on, (un)plugging both at once, each before the other, several times in rapid succession etc. Mine wouldn't fail.

[Cali]

Well Teej, only time will tell about this warthogs. As I said before the same thing happened with the cougar MFD's. They seemed to be fixed now I guess there are 2 version. We only heard about this very soon after they came out, things have been quiet for a long time with them.

[Teej]

I had sent this as a PM to pumpernickel...but I guess I'd be curious on anyone else's response, too...

 

Got something you might try. But first, I'm curious...

 

1: What OS are you on?

2: How often do you do a full, actual, power-off reboot? (No judgement here - I reboot as seldom as I possibly can...)

3: What was your stick plugged into when it stopped working? (directly into motherboard, usb hub, hub on something else such as monitor, etc)

4: What have you tried since it stopped working, besides the eeprom test from TM?

 

I would suggest, in order:

 

1: Shut down computer, unplug Warthog, remove mains power from computer for at least 10 minutes (ie don't just "turn it off", make sure it gets no power and isn't in some sort of soft-power state). Power up and when Windows settles down open up the control panel game controllers applet and plug your warthog bits in one at a time directly into the computer's motherboard. See what shows up and what doesn't.

 

2: If that still doesn't go, then with both pieces plugged in, open up registry editor (start / regedit) and drill to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE/system/CurrentControlSet/Enum/USB. See if you see two entries marked:

 

VID_044F&PID_0402

VID_044F&PID_0404

 

The first is an entry for the joystick, the 2nd is for the throttle.

 

Close registry editor. let me know what you find here.

 

Note that I am in no way affiliated with TM support - anything they suggest should take precedence over what I'm trying to do with ya.

 

T

[leafer]

That's out of well over 100 people who've posted in the WH owner database thread here alone. That's a < 3% failure rate (since every Warthog is 2 units and nobody's had both devices fail...come to think of it I haven't heard of any stick failures, it's all been throttle) overall...or less than 6% on the throttle alone.

 

 

One more dead here.... :cry:

 

My Stick just stopped working. Unpacked it yesterday.

 

Wrote an E-Mail to TM. Hope they find a solution for this.

 

You took the time to count and missed this one post? Sponsored by TM... :D

Edited November 23, 2010 by leafer

[Teej]

OK, so I forgot about pumpernickel's stick.

 

OTOH, there's a total of 5 people in this thread with problems, and one of them was fixed and another returned his rather than deal with it. Here's my tally:

 

jsk - throttle - 3 days - fixed with firmware

rasputin - returned

59th Bird - throttle

Stanger - unspecified - did not get fixed

Pumpernickel - stick

 

So in this thread there are 2 people with dead throttles and 1 with a dead stick.

 

I've seen approximately 3 more throttle problems on SimHQ...but I don't know if the usernames map over to any of the above.

Edited November 23, 2010 by Teej

[Dimebag1]

My guess is this problem has something to do with windows installing it's own drivers for a hid device and that device Id is no longer recognisable by the system. This happened to me with the logitech g940. I would plug it in and windows recognized it and installed default hid drivers, but it was not usable at all, and the device reaimned inactive. After a complete reformat of my pc I could install it correctly. Whoever said to tinker around with the registy for hid devices I think is on the right track, however be careful. Good luck people, I know how you feel, it wears you down just thinking about it.

[leafer]

That's better but I will not stop hounding you...no, not until you give me your TM HOG! Please!

[Teej]

not until you give me your TM HOG! Please!

 

Ah, there it is. ;)

[59th_Bird]

I have to send my WH throttle tomorrow to the French TM hq, I hope I'll receive it back ASAP. And it will work... forever...

[effte]

We are also not the only ones who were testing the units...including some non-US globalized europeans.

 

Brilliant, then we can be sure that all obvious globalization issues, such as the software not starting if you didn't have your system configured as a U.S. system, were caught before release. :thumbup:

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm a longtime TM fan starting with the PFCS and then owning pretty much every serious piece of equipment they have released. The fact remains, however, that someone screwed up badly on that one, and that they have a long history of sub-par quality control. Luckily, they also have a history of amazing hardware and software which has created a loyal customer base which will put up with having to repair and modify their kit. Not to mention outstanding customer support, which I do hope will continue under Guillemot. Never tried it with my Cougar, as I ordered replacements for broken parts from Dunnunda this time around. Got plenty of replacement springs etc for free for the earlier sticks though.

 

Yes, it was a cheap shot but a well deserved one. In addition, I must add that TM wasn't the manufacturer first and foremost in my mind when writing. When it comes to interesting approaches to beta-testing, you could for example take a hypothetical software company creating an amazing simulator. Let us then assume that they recruit their testers exclusively from the die-hard online crowd. Then come release day and lo and behold! Features which are not important in an online melee, but which are crucial to offline mission play are sadly lacking... ouch! :P

[Pumpernickel]

Hurray mine is working again.... :):cheer3nc:

 

 

I used the programms I received by TM (once more) and now things are running again.

 

Maybe because i uninstalled TARGET and rebooted. But before i did the driverinstall/firmwareupdate, the stick was still a "unknown device".

Maybe i pressed the buttons long enough. (5+ sec)

The USB-socket was the same as before. (MB)

Maybe someone else can figure out. Feel free to ask me if you want to know something specific.

 

And thank you Teej for your help :thumbup:

 

and now up up.... :pilotfly:

[Teej]

Sweet! Hope what i put ya through helped, but regardless - awesome!

[hassata]

YEAH!

[Succellus]

I remember that hard resseting my cougar was a pain in the rear end.

Well on doubt blame microsoft you 75% of being right.

 

I wonder if people are getting enought pacience to hard resset in the correct way.

[Slammin]

Resetting the Cougar is cake. I just tied a rubber band around the trigger since my PC was too far away to hold the trigger while plugging the USB cable in. The PITA was that you had to recalibrate it, whci in itself was not really a PITA either, just it is inconvenient to have to do that due to a 'glitch', especially when you have you head all set for some online action, NOW..

[Yskonyn]

So do we now have confirmed all the issues you might encounter can be resolved and I can plugin my shiny new HOTAS without fear when I get back from my roadtrip (in 5 days *ouch*, while just now the Warthog got delivered to my home...)?

[Succellus]

Nothing is sure in this life buddy.

Take a shot or lay to die, thats the only sure thing...for now.

[PoleCat]

You can't die until you've lived. Nothing ventured nothing gained. Plug it in.:joystick:

 

Out

[PoleCat]

Brilliant, then we can be sure that all obvious globalization issues, such as the software not starting if you didn't have your system configured as a U.S. system, were caught before release. :thumbup:

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm a longtime TM fan starting with the PFCS and then owning pretty much every serious piece of equipment they have released. The fact remains, however, that someone screwed up badly on that one, and that they have a long history of sub-par quality control. Luckily, they also have a history of amazing hardware and software which has created a loyal customer base which will put up with having to repair and modify their kit. Not to mention outstanding customer support, which I do hope will continue under Guillemot. Never tried it with my Cougar, as I ordered replacements for broken parts from Dunnunda this time around. Got plenty of replacement springs etc for free for the earlier sticks though.

 

Yes, it was a cheap shot but a well deserved one. In addition, I must add that TM wasn't the manufacturer first and foremost in my mind when writing. When it comes to interesting approaches to beta-testing, you could for example take a hypothetical software company creating an amazing simulator. Let us then assume that they recruit their testers exclusively from the die-hard online crowd. Then come release day and lo and behold! Features which are not important in an online melee, but which are crucial to offline mission play are sadly lacking... ouch! :P

 

I am happy to have my Warthog sooner and don't mind some teething issues. Nothing here is a show stopper and I haven't had so much as a serious hiccup with my Warthog. It IS THE HOTAS. As for A10-C, I think that speaks for itself, even in beta it is simply amazing. There is not even a single high fidelity combat flight sim out there to compare to A10C or Black Shark. They are in a class by themselves. The DCS series is to high fidelity combat flight Sims what the Warthog is to HOTAS, simply the best. The Only for that matter.

 

 

Let us then assume that they recruit their testers exclusively from the die-hard online crowd.

Wrong assumption. Please read on....

 

I am not sure and apologies in advance if I misunderstood, but if you are implying that ED favors/favored MP aspects over the main focus of any sim I can tell you that is totally absurd. They have many excellent beta testers that are not a part of the MP community at all and are in fact some of the best and most productive testers on the team in all aspects of the project. There are people on this team with specific knowledge in just about every area of focus. Many of these testers are nothing short of absolutely brilliant and the results that they produce are outstanding (And no I don't include myself in that group, these guys are rock star testers who's knowledge level in their specific areas would leave many of us weeping in a corner feeling like an idiot).

 

And they do all this at the cost of many hours of their own free time for nothing more than to read the occasional appreciation in posts like these.

 

Out

Edited November 24, 2010 by PoleCat

[jsk]

Hurray mine is working again.... :):cheer3nc:

 

 

I used the programms I received by TM (once more) and now things are running again.

 

Maybe because i uninstalled TARGET and rebooted. But before i did the driverinstall/firmwareupdate, the stick was still a "unknown device".

Maybe i pressed the buttons long enough. (5+ sec)

The USB-socket was the same as before. (MB)

Maybe someone else can figure out. Feel free to ask me if you want to know something specific.

 

And thank you Teej for your help :thumbup:

 

and now up up.... :pilotfly:

 

Good!!

 

It can be tricky pressing these buttons (trigger for example) because at same time you'll have plug usb cable in. My throttle then was "found" as HID boot in device manager (no lights at this stage) and no pop ups from windows and I was able to reload the firmware in and then lights were back on.

 

br

jsk

[TwoLate]

Good!!

 

It can be tricky pressing these buttons (trigger for example) because at same time you'll have plug usb cable in. My throttle then was "found" as HID boot in device manager (no lights at this stage) and no pop ups from windows and I was able to reload the firmware in and then lights were back on.

 

br

jsk

 

I have the problem with no lights you mean the firmware will load without lights. Windows sees nothing on my throttle and no lights. I tried the boot load pushing down the two buttons and cannot get the utility from TM to see the throttle. Maybe I will try for the 15th time.

[59th_Bird]

I have the problem with no lights you mean the firmware will load without lights. Windows sees nothing on my throttle and no lights. I tried the boot load pushing down the two buttons and cannot get the utility from TM to see the throttle. Maybe I will try for the 15th time.

 

I had the same problem. The utility that came from TM had no connection with the throttle. No lights, no pop-ups (my joystick gerenated a pop-up!), no respond.

[TwoLate]

I had the same problem. The utility that came from TM had no connection with the throttle. No lights, no pop-ups (my joystick gerenated a pop-up!), no respond.

 

Thanks Bird Mine will be sent back to Canada. Joystick is fine, just sending back Throttle.

[59th_Bird]

My throttle is on its way to France. I hope I'll receive it back before the winter holiday.

[effte]

I am not sure and apologies in advance if I misunderstood, but if you are implying that ED favors/favored MP aspects over the main focus of any sim ...

 

I included a separate paragraph explicitly stating that this was not what I was implying in my first post, and still I get this? Sheeeesh... but apology accepted. If we ever meet, you owe me a cold one. Cheers! ;)