Flamin_Squirrel Posted December 1, 2010 Posted December 1, 2010 How would a fuel dumping installation allow for a higher MLW? The fuel dumping installation is going to dump fuel -> therefore reducing gross weight of the aircraft. It will create a situation that will be a from an overweight situation to a weight equal to or lower than MLW. How is this related to MLW certification? In other words, could you illustrate how a fuel dumping installation on an aircraft raises its MLW? Sorry I miss read, my bad :doh: Nothing to see here, move along :music_whistling:
Yskonyn Posted December 1, 2010 Posted December 1, 2010 :D Here, have a beer. Move along people! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Asus Z390-E, 32GB Crucial Ballistix 2400Mhz, Intel i7 9700K 5.0Ghz, Asus GTX1080 8GB, SoundBlaster AE-5, G15, Streamdeck, DSD Flight, TM Warthog, VirPil BRD, MFG Crosswind CAM5, TrackIR 5, KW-908 Jetseat, Win 10 64-bit ”Pilots do not get paid for what they do daily, but they get paid for what they are capable of doing. However, if pilots would need to do daily what they are capable of doing, nobody would dare to fly anymore.”
power5 Posted December 1, 2010 Posted December 1, 2010 Air refuel over tow could do it. If you load the wings with gbus and hit the tanker to top off wing tanks and internal tanks you could easily over weight yourself. Of course you would be a dumb ass and deserving of broken gear landing afterward. It can be done but very unlikely. He'll I can barely catch the tanker at full tow when I was messing around. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Aaron i7 2600k@4.4ghz, GTX1060-6gb, 16gb DDR3, T16000m, Track IR5 BS2-A10C-UH1-FC3-M2000-F18C-A4E-F14B-BF109
recoil17 Posted December 1, 2010 Posted December 1, 2010 Is this the vent pipe? Picture found here: http://warthognews.blogspot.com/2009/10/identifying-upgraded-10c.html "Simultaneous selection of fuel dump and afterburner during high AOA maneuvering may cause fuel to ignite with resulting fuselage damage."
mvsgas Posted December 1, 2010 Posted December 1, 2010 According to what Cali said, yes. The middle one To whom it may concern, I am an idiot, unfortunately for the world, I have a internet connection and a fondness for beer....apologies for that. Thank you for you patience. Many people don't want the truth, they want constant reassurance that whatever misconception/fallacies they believe in are true..
Yskonyn Posted December 1, 2010 Posted December 1, 2010 That's one reason, but actually the main reason is that as fuel is used, a corresponding volume of air needs to replace the fuel. The vent allows air into the tank. If there was no vent you'd create a partial vacuum in the tank which the pump has to work against... until the vacuum increases until it can't anymore and you get fuel starvation. I'd imagine a reduced fuel pressure might cause cavitation in the fuel pump also. Something just went through my mind on your comment. Isn't bleed air usually used for that purpose? The tanks on our 737 are held under pressure by bleed air IIRC, but I'd have to check this in my manuals. The A-10C has a bleed air system as well. Isn't that used for this? [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Asus Z390-E, 32GB Crucial Ballistix 2400Mhz, Intel i7 9700K 5.0Ghz, Asus GTX1080 8GB, SoundBlaster AE-5, G15, Streamdeck, DSD Flight, TM Warthog, VirPil BRD, MFG Crosswind CAM5, TrackIR 5, KW-908 Jetseat, Win 10 64-bit ”Pilots do not get paid for what they do daily, but they get paid for what they are capable of doing. However, if pilots would need to do daily what they are capable of doing, nobody would dare to fly anymore.”
Flamin_Squirrel Posted December 1, 2010 Posted December 1, 2010 Something just went through my mind on your comment. Isn't bleed air usually used for that purpose? The tanks on our 737 are held under pressure by bleed air IIRC, but I'd have to check this in my manuals. The A-10C has a bleed air system as well. Isn't that used for this? From the schematic, it would seem not (at least not the internal ones - external ones are). Thinking about it, wouldnt the 737 have vents also anyway, to prevent overpressure?
Yskonyn Posted December 1, 2010 Posted December 1, 2010 Yes it does. :) Fuel Drain Pipes they are called. Little tubes extending from a fairing on each wing. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Asus Z390-E, 32GB Crucial Ballistix 2400Mhz, Intel i7 9700K 5.0Ghz, Asus GTX1080 8GB, SoundBlaster AE-5, G15, Streamdeck, DSD Flight, TM Warthog, VirPil BRD, MFG Crosswind CAM5, TrackIR 5, KW-908 Jetseat, Win 10 64-bit ”Pilots do not get paid for what they do daily, but they get paid for what they are capable of doing. However, if pilots would need to do daily what they are capable of doing, nobody would dare to fly anymore.”
Cali Posted December 2, 2010 Posted December 2, 2010 Yes, it uses bladder-type tanks The one on the photo, the same one Cali was talking about, should be the way for the vent box to release fuel or pressure overboard to help maintain system proper pressure. See Cali, crew chiefs know some stuff :D Yep, it's the middle one. @ airdog, The 2 main tanks are the only ones that have the bladder cells, they are self sealing from the bottom to a little more then half way up the side. All tanks have fire suppressive foam in them. The vent box or "the pig" is in the back top of the aft main tank. It's a silver soda can looking thing. i7-4820k @ 3.7, Windows 7 64-bit, 16GB 1866mhz EVGA GTX 970 2GB, 256GB SSD, 500GB WD, TM Warthog, TM Cougar MFD's, Saitek Combat Pedals, TrackIR 5, G15 keyboard, 55" 4K LED
mvsgas Posted December 8, 2010 Posted December 8, 2010 F-16 external 370 wing tanks after ejection To whom it may concern, I am an idiot, unfortunately for the world, I have a internet connection and a fondness for beer....apologies for that. Thank you for you patience. Many people don't want the truth, they want constant reassurance that whatever misconception/fallacies they believe in are true..
hitman Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 Something just went through my mind on your comment. Isn't bleed air usually used for that purpose? The tanks on our 737 are held under pressure by bleed air IIRC, but I'd have to check this in my manuals. The A-10C has a bleed air system as well. Isn't that used for this? All aircraft should have some sort of bleed air to equalize the amount of pressure vented to atmosphere, and to keep the tanks from being topped off over capacity.
HungaroJET Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 ... yes. The middle one Unfortunately dumping fuel effect and calculation are not implemented/switched to A-10 (yet) but it should be. Maybe in FC3 we will get this feature (back - to DCS:WH also). At least i hope it. Fuel Dump Mast Atop the midnight tarmac, a metal beast awaits. To be flown below the radar, to bring the enemy his fate. HAVE A BANDIT DAY ! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] "When I'm working on a problem, I never think about beauty. I think only how to solve the problem. But when I have finished, if the solution is not beautiful, I know it is wrong." - R. Buckminster Fuller (1895 - 1983), American Architect, Author, Designer, Inventor, and Futurist
Snoopy Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 A-10s can not dump fuel, if any fuel is venting out in flight they will abort. We watched one of our jets takeoff with a vapor trail only to IFE and come back around. Also, no internal tanks are pressurized on the A-10, only the external tanks are. The only tanks with bladders are the main tanks, the wings are integral tanks. v303d Fighter Group Discord | Virtual 303d Fighter Group Website
HungaroJET Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 A-10s can not dump fuel, if any fuel is venting out in flight they will abort. Copy, but the original idea comes from FC1/FC2 A-10A. (ok, FC isnt DCS) :) Atop the midnight tarmac, a metal beast awaits. To be flown below the radar, to bring the enemy his fate. HAVE A BANDIT DAY ! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] "When I'm working on a problem, I never think about beauty. I think only how to solve the problem. But when I have finished, if the solution is not beautiful, I know it is wrong." - R. Buckminster Fuller (1895 - 1983), American Architect, Author, Designer, Inventor, and Futurist
Cali Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 And that idea was wrong, what fighters can dump fuel? i7-4820k @ 3.7, Windows 7 64-bit, 16GB 1866mhz EVGA GTX 970 2GB, 256GB SSD, 500GB WD, TM Warthog, TM Cougar MFD's, Saitek Combat Pedals, TrackIR 5, G15 keyboard, 55" 4K LED
Smokin Hole Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 Yskonin, Your 737 has a vent system too. In the form of a small tank OB of the mains. In addition to that there are vent ports if the vent tanks are overfilled. Positive pressure is provided by NACA vents, not bleed air.
HungaroJET Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 And that idea was wrong, what fighters can dump fuel? F-15 @ wingtips ? ;) and of course the flaming F-111 :D Atop the midnight tarmac, a metal beast awaits. To be flown below the radar, to bring the enemy his fate. HAVE A BANDIT DAY ! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] "When I'm working on a problem, I never think about beauty. I think only how to solve the problem. But when I have finished, if the solution is not beautiful, I know it is wrong." - R. Buckminster Fuller (1895 - 1983), American Architect, Author, Designer, Inventor, and Futurist
Cali Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 The E model can, I don't know about the C. I kown the F-111 can, but I don't know if I'd call it a fighter, kinda like the F-117....no gun or missiles..... i7-4820k @ 3.7, Windows 7 64-bit, 16GB 1866mhz EVGA GTX 970 2GB, 256GB SSD, 500GB WD, TM Warthog, TM Cougar MFD's, Saitek Combat Pedals, TrackIR 5, G15 keyboard, 55" 4K LED
Snoopy Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) Not sure about F-15s worked them but not long enough to learn the ins/outs of the fuel system...but the vents are in the wingtips.... Saw 111s do that many times growing up at airshows. Hell, most of my childhood I lived on bases that had 111s (Plattsburgh afb, NY, - RAF Upper Heyford, UK - RAF Lakenheath, UK) ....F-111 can, but I don't know if I'd call it a fighter, kinda like the F-117....no gun or missiles..... She did carry missles, only they had nuclear warheads :D Edited January 12, 2012 by Snoopy v303d Fighter Group Discord | Virtual 303d Fighter Group Website
HungaroJET Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) The E model can, I don't know about the C. I kown the F-111 can, but I don't know if I'd call it a fighter, kinda like the F-117....no gun or missiles..... F-111 with Sidewinders ? Is it a fighter ? ;) (self defense fighter) She did carry missles, only they had nuclear warheads :D F-111 with AGM-130 ? (a GBU-15 with booster) ;) Edited January 12, 2012 by HungaroJET Atop the midnight tarmac, a metal beast awaits. To be flown below the radar, to bring the enemy his fate. HAVE A BANDIT DAY ! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] "When I'm working on a problem, I never think about beauty. I think only how to solve the problem. But when I have finished, if the solution is not beautiful, I know it is wrong." - R. Buckminster Fuller (1895 - 1983), American Architect, Author, Designer, Inventor, and Futurist
Cali Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 It's technically called a fighter, just like the F-117. I did see the vents on the F-15C, even got pics of it when I was in Oregon. i7-4820k @ 3.7, Windows 7 64-bit, 16GB 1866mhz EVGA GTX 970 2GB, 256GB SSD, 500GB WD, TM Warthog, TM Cougar MFD's, Saitek Combat Pedals, TrackIR 5, G15 keyboard, 55" 4K LED
Tailgate Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 Navy AC dump fuel to obtain the correct weight for carrier traps. For land-based ac, It might come in handy for deadsticking it and shortening your roll out, though.
Rainmaker Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 F-15's for sure....all varients. Dump masts are located on both wingtips but only the right mast is used for inflight dumping.
badger66 Posted March 3, 2012 Posted March 3, 2012 What's dumb is we had to change them all the time cause they would get small cracks. It was a waste of money, cause it was a vent, it had no pressure on it. We get the same problem , why not re-weld them , I cant see the issue against that . They are aluminium too .
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