OMG "Flag is more"

[Grimes]

/Virtual high five to the developers who put this in.

 

Honestly wasn't expecting much change on the mission editor side of things between B4 and release. It is such a pleasant and useful surprise.

[MTFDarkEagle]

+1!!!

[mic1184]

can you further explain this? how have the flags changed? won't be able to try it out before tomorrow night i guess

[winz]

My guess would be that you have the ability to use comparation condition FLAG is more/less than some number.

 

edit: (second though, flags are boolean, aren't they?.. I should stop making guesses without my morning coffee... :P )

Edited February 22, 2011 by winz

[Irregular programming]

My guess would be that you have the ability to use comparation condition FLAG is more/less than some number.

 

edit: (second though, flags are boolean, aren't they?.. I should stop making guesses without my morning coffee... :P )

 

If flag is more than true :joystick:

[Grimes]

A Flag is just a form of data storage and information. It now has two uses.

1. A boolean value

2. A numerical value

 

The Boolean values work as before.

 

With numerical values we can check if the value of the flag is greater than or less than a given value. With actions we can increase or decrease the value of a flag and use a random number generator.

 

The immediate first use that comes to mind is to use triggers to count players in a mission. Although it is still technically more efficient to do this via mission goals than triggers. It takes 1 mission goal of "unit inside zone" and it adds and subtracts the values automatically whenever they change. With triggers it will take 1 trigger to add the value and another to subtract the value.

[Kuky]

you lost me there at "A Flag..." but who cares :D I'm glad they got extra stuff squeezed in :)

[asparagin]

you lost me there at "A Flag..." but who cares :D I'm glad they got extra stuff squeezed in :)

 

:D.. Grimes cares only about FPS in the mission editor :D

[StrongHarm]

If flag is more than true :joystick:

 

My flag is more than true!

[leafer]

you're kinda cute, SH.

[Jinja]

you're kinda cute, SH.

 

:megalol:

[AKA_Clutter]

A Flag is just a form of data storage and information. It now has two uses.

1. A boolean value

2. A numerical value

 

The Boolean values work as before.

 

With numerical values we can check if the value of the flag is greater than or less than a given value. With actions we can increase or decrease the value of a flag and use a random number generator.

 

The immediate first use that comes to mind is to use triggers to count players in a mission. Although it is still technically more efficient to do this via mission goals than triggers. It takes 1 mission goal of "unit inside zone" and it adds and subtracts the values automatically whenever they change. With triggers it will take 1 trigger to add the value and another to subtract the value.

 

 

Grimes,

 

I'm in the process of trying to learn as much about the ME as possible. :book:

 

I have played around with the BS ME quite a bit and have a lot of the basics down. Most of my logic to date has been pretty "brute force" and not elegant.

 

I see that you say that you can use missions goals to count players in a mission. I am trying to figure out how to employee that in Black Shark.

 

I know that I can set a Mission Goal to detect if a certain pilot in in game with UNIT IN ZONE. I assume that you use this to increase the Mission Score by 1. You would then have a Mission Goal associated with each MP pilot. You can the used a loop and switch condition to see what the mission score is. This is where I start having problem with Black Shark. All it has is MISSION SCORE GREATER THAN x. My problem is in setting this up is that if there are 4 pilots in game, then MISSION SCORE GREATER THAN (1), then MISSION SCORE GREATER THAN (2), then MISSION SCORE GREATER THAN (3), would all be true. I think that this issue can be solved by creating a cascade with each check 1 second after the first starting from highest value to lowest, with associate FLAG set to TRUE or FALSE.

 

My question is this the basic process or is there an easier method that I am missing.

 

 

 

ON a separate note, I have figured out a set of logic in A-10C that uses the Flag value to count units. One advantage that this may have over the Mission Goals is that you could have different loops to count different types of units (e.g., Ka-50 versus A-10C pilots). Anyway, may logic is shown below. Any suggestion to improve it are welcome. :)

 

Flag 600 - Main loop initiation flag,

Flag 610 - Flag to hold value = number of pilots in game

Flag 601 - Used start the switched condition to start count number of pilots in game one timing in main loop has expired

Flag 602 - Used to start the switched condition to decrease the value of 610

 

• SWICTHED CONDTION (Count_Loop)
  
  • TIME SINCE (600, 300)
    
    • FLAG OFF (600)
      
    • FLAG ON (600)
      
    • FLAG ON (601)
      

  [*]SWICTHED CONDTION (Pilot_1_In_Game) -- Repeat this trigger for each pilot you want to count

  • FLAG IS TRUE(601)
    
  • UNIT IN ZONE(Pilot #1, Count_Units)
    
    • FLAG INCREASE (610,1)
      

  [*]SWICTHED CONDTION (Pilot_2_In_Game)

  • FLAG IS TRUE(601)
    
  • UNIT IN ZONE(Pilot #2, Count_Units)
    
    • FLAG INCREASE (610,1)
      

• SWICTHED CONDTION (Total_In_Game=1) -- Need one of these for each range you want to evaluate
  
  • TIME SINCE FLAG (610,1)
    
  • FLAG IS MORE THAN (610, 0)
    
  • FLAG IS LESS THAN (610, 2)
    
    • FLAG OFF (601)
      
    • FLAG ON (602)
      
    • Add FLAG/ACTION to be taken when TRUE
      

• SWICTHED CONDTION (Total_In_Game=2)
  
  • 
    
    • TIME SINCE FLAG (610,1)
      
    • FLAG IS MORE THAN (610, 1)
      
    • FLAG IS LESS THAN (610, 3)
      
      • FLAG OFF (601)
        
      • FLAG ON (602)
        
      • Add FLAG/ACTION to be taken when TRUE
        

• SWICTHED CONDTION (Pilot_2_In_Game_Decrease) --This trigger decreases the value of the count flag (Flag 610) for each unit that is in game
  
  • FLAG IS TRUE(602)
    
  • UNIT IN ZONE(Pilot #2, Count_Units)
    
    • FLAG DECREASE (610,1)
      

• SWICTHED CONDTION (Pilot_2_In_Game_Decrease)
  
  • FLAG IS TRUE(602)
    
  • UNIT IN ZONE(Pilot #2, Count_Units)
    
    • FLAG DECREASE (610,1)
      

  [*]SWICTHED CONDTION (Reset Loop)

  • TIME SINCE (602,3)
    
    • FLAG OFF (602)
      

Thanks in advance for your help! :book: :joystick: :pilotfly:

Edited May 6, 2011 by AKA_Clutter

[mooshim]

Threads like this give me the feeling that you guys downloaded a different sim from mine.

[Ripcord]

Mastering the mission editor and creating good content is for many another hobby within a hobby. I was big into that in Janes F/A-18 and it was a real creative release for me. Evenutally I hope to do some good things with this one, as it offers so much.

 

@AKA Clutter -- another way to approach this for multiplayer is to score your missions based on who wins on the ground, eg. in a defensive scenario, do we stop the bad guys from reaching point X, or overruning our forces someplace? In an offensive scenario, did our allied ground forces succeed in pushing the enemy back out of some town or village, or crossing a bridge or capturing a FARP or something? This is a bit more of a Falcon 4 approach where you are really just a particpant in a larger war, and not being graded just your own actions -- though the goals should require effective intervention on behalf of the player(s) in order for the guys to win. I would think that for goals like that, it would not matter so much how many human players flew in the mission (well, putting aside all the 'stupid AI' observations, of course).

 

There again, all the fun is in the creating, and not arguing or defending your logic -- there is no one right way to build this content, after all!

 

Ripcord

Edited May 7, 2011 by Ripcord

[RodBorza]

Threads like this give me the feeling that you guys downloaded a different sim from mine.

LOL. True.

Some guys actually read the manual. :megalol:

 

But anyway. messing around with the ME is fun. :joystick:

[mooshim]

LOL. True.

Some guys actually read the manual. :megalol:

 

That was low... :)

[RodBorza]

Moonshim,

 

Sorry, but I couldn't resist. :D

I love this game, have read the manual and etc. But sometimes I am surprised by the amount of things that you can do with the features modeled in this sim. Sometimes someone says that discovered this or that on the CDU and then I ask myself: "How the heck they find this?" Then I remember that when I read about it, I skiped most of the pages... Trying to learn in a rush. No so good...:doh:

[AKA_Clutter]

@AKA Clutter -- another way to approach this for multiplayer is to score your missions based on who wins on the ground, eg. in a defensive scenario, do we stop the bad guys from reaching point X, or overruning our forces someplace? In an offensive scenario, did our allied ground forces succeed in pushing the enemy back out of some town or village, or crossing a bridge or capturing a FARP or something? This is a bit more of a Falcon 4 approach where you are really just a particpant in a larger war, and not being graded just your own actions -- though the goals should require effective intervention on behalf of the player(s) in order for the guys to win. I would think that for goals like that, it would not matter so much how many human players flew in the mission (well, putting aside all the 'stupid AI' observations, of course).

 

There again, all the fun is in the creating, and not arguing or defending your logic -- there is no one right way to build this content, after all!

 

Ripcord

 

 

Ripcord,

 

Thanks for the response and the idea. I have F4 & F4AF and the dynamic campaign setup is hard to beat. I would love to have that in the DCS series.

 

The missions I have crated to date for Black Shark have been pretty much focused on a single objective for a squad of pilots (generally 4 - 8) w/o a lot of AI units. Again all of these have been for Multi-player, and they were put together to try and form a BS campaign Keeping the balance so that it wasn't too difficult for 2 players but yet not too easy for 6 - 8 was difficult. When FC2 came out and we started to integrate those planes into some missions, it was pretty important to know which aircraft were in the game. Of course one way around this is to have the aircraft do different mission in different areas of the map. As these were primary developed for our squad to fly, we leaned toward having everything in one area.

 

As you stated there is no one right way or wrong way, just different flavors. :)

 

Your comments have given me food for thought for future development. :thumbup:

[Ripcord]

Ripcord,

Thanks for the response and the idea. I have F4 & F4AF and the dynamic campaign setup is hard to beat. I would love to have that in the DCS series.

 

Well, let's not derail this very useful and interesting thread by comparing those two sims and reviving the DC debate. There are dozens of other threads that have done that ad naseaum. The DC is cool and we all love it and respect it, but this campaign engine is also pretty robust -- but ONLY IF THE MISSION DESIGNERS TAKE ADVANTAGE of all the cool features in here, much like Grimes kindly pointed out when he started this thread. So far I've not seen that, but I suspect there are handful of enterprising creative types (maybe even like yourself) that are more than capable.

 

We did some very cool campaigns in Janes FA-18 that were semi-dynamic (same producer by the way) and I will say that the possibilities for this sim are way bigger with the tools we've already been given.

 

The beauty of it is right there in the ladder concept. The campaign builder can easily let us 'move the FLOT' up and down as forces advance or fall back.

 

We can have any number of very cool 'kinda dynamic' campaigns in this sim, but it will take a crap load of missions with a great deal of randomization built into them all. It can, however, be done.

 

Ripcord

 

BTW, I am also from WA state. Grew up in Kelso, went to UW, lived in Seattle for a number of years. What part you from?

Edited May 8, 2011 by Ripcord

[Ripcord]

A Flag is just a form of data storage and information. It now has two uses.

1. A boolean value

2. A numerical value

 

The Boolean values work as before.

 

With numerical values we can check if the value of the flag is greater than or less than a given value. With actions we can increase or decrease the value of a flag and use a random number generator.

 

The immediate first use that comes to mind is to use triggers to count players in a mission. Although it is still technically more efficient to do this via mission goals than triggers. It takes 1 mission goal of "unit inside zone" and it adds and subtracts the values automatically whenever they change. With triggers it will take 1 trigger to add the value and another to subtract the value.

 

Can we write these flags to a file or something outside the mission, that can then be referred to later in subsequent missions?

 

Eg. Set flag 10 to value "5" and write to a LUA or something?

 

In FC2 the only value that would carry over from one campaign mission to the next was the previous mission score, used only for selection of the next mission, and nothing else.