Attacking armored vehicles with the gun

[yonyz]

Hi,

 

I have a problem attacking pretty much anything that can seriously hit me (tanks, armored vehicles with mounted machine guns) with the 30mm machine gun. The problem is that, once I'm close enough to actually hit the target, it's past the point where they can no longer observe me.

 

So I usually die when I run out of Vikhrs, because I can't approach those vehicles without getting killed long before I get to hit any of them.

[SUBS17]

You know 30mm you can hit tgts at 2.5+km away so use the Shival to lock tgt and pick them off ideally you want to be low to the ground I usually use the top of a hill and can attack without getting taken out. Ideally tanks you should use Vhikrs and same with anything that can shoot back. APCs are about as far as I normally go with the 30mm.:thumbup:

[yonyz]

So no 30mm against tanks. OK. I'll try to remember that.

[bogusheadbox]

If i can also add.

 

Agree don't use gun against tanks.

 

Secondly your gun is accurate over 3klms. If in a pinch you can spam at long range (with a wide grouping of rounds) at 4 klms. For this engage manual fire.

 

I find that 3.5 klms is about the max rage you are quite accurate at, after that the accuracy degrades quickly.

[yonyz]

Thanks. I'll keep that in mind.

[Isegrim]

Surely you can Destroy Tanks with the Gun exept T55 (never got one with Gun Down:noexpression:)

 

But you have to get Close enough best Distance for firing with Gun on an Tank is between 2-2,5 km not less Distance !

 

Or try to get them From Top when yourself are flying in a Radaraltitiude over 1000meters so their AA gun cant get you.

 

The Point is to go into the Tanks death zone where it cant Fire on you with main Gun or his AAGun.

 

Most Tanks can aim their Maingun +20° to -8°

 

Best Distance is 1.1-1.5 Km.

 

But for sure Vikhr eats up Tanks better;)

Edited April 1, 2011 by Isegrim

[SUBS17]

Vhikr is the tool for that job, haven't tried the flying at 1000m trick thats a new one.:joystick:

[isoul]

In my opinion gun is used for APCs/IFVs or softer targets.

 

Coming close and personal with an armored target such as a tank is, tactically, not a good idea. The tank can withstand more AP rounds than your Ka-50, at such close ranges the tank has the means to fight back. More importantly.... When you start the engagement with a tank you are putting a 15 million $ piece of equipment (Ka-50) against a tank which costs a lot less (M1 Abrams $6 million, T80U less than $3 million).

 

More or less its like hunting a warthog (the animal not the plane) with a knife. Coming close and personal isn't a good idea against that.

 

Vikhrs are the way to deals with tanks... launch them in pairs, even that way they are quite cost effective!

[Isegrim]

@isoul

 

Question.

You are out of Vikhrs and unguided.

A Tank gets slowly but sure close to Your Farp, and you will not have enough time to land and rearm.

 

You got 100 AP Rounds left for your Gun.

 

What are you doing in such an Situation?? :joystick:

 

Nobody says here you should attack Tanks with Gun first.

 

But you can and it can be very usefull.

 

Better Practise that.:thumbup:

[winz]

If a lone tank gets close to Farp then I hope that ground forces are able to handle one single tank because I'm practicaly out of ammo, and this isn't CoD.

[isoul]

@Isegrim

 

Sure you can try to kill that lone tank with whatever you think it can kill it. In a game you can easily try to harm everything with whatever you want.

 

The scenario you are describing above is a "what-if" scenario that could only happen in a game. So, in a game, you can react however foolishly you like. In such scenario I would keep my 100 AP rounds for my commander's butt for numerous reasons.

 

Personally I don't think that AP rounds are an efficient way to take out modern tanks!

Edited April 2, 2011 by isoul

[Isegrim]

 

Personally I don't think that AP rounds are an efficient way to take out modern tanks!

 

Sure they are!

 

Modern Tank have a very thin Topturret armor. Most between 40-60 mm

also backside isnt protectet well

 

Also HE rounds effekts Hard on Tanks,think about Optics-Wheels and other Sensitive Parts.

 

Most easy to Destroy in BS i think is T72.

T80 M1 and Leopard need some more hits.

T55 :noexpression: hm never Destroyed one with the Gun.

But modern Tanks Turrets are welded toghether from several parts. The T55 turret is made of one part maybe thats helpfull against smaller tracers (<50mm).

 

 

 

Ok thats 35mm but every Tank would get very bad hits by That.

[isoul]

When I say that the 2A42 cannon isn't an efficient gun against heavy armor I mean that, even if it manages to inflict serious damage to a heavy tank, it will cast the shooting vehicle vulnerable to enemy fire for quite long... long enough for the target vehicle to respond. If you consider that a tank is almost never alone on the field, the attacking helicopter is risking being shot down once it engages a tank at close range.

Edited April 2, 2011 by isoul

[Mano]

my 2 cents here! :)

 

I think that the "problem" is that in the game to take out a tank you have to see it "explode", and it's quite difficult with the cannon, especially for the T55. The game doesn't consider when a tank is out of combat. I don't know actually if this is true, it's only my impression.

 

in real life (and in other -more accurate *land warfare*- simulations) a tank can be out of the game for many reasons. a lucky cannon shot can disable optics, tracks, turret rotation, cannon elevation, engine or other systems causing the tank to be in condition of not being able to continue its mission and leaving the crew no other options than to flee away from the will-be-iron-coffin.

 

this level of detail is not implemented in BS (but for the helicopter). I believe that if you think on a wide-spanning warfare simulation this is a great miss. however this can be acceptable if you consider that resources have been focused on other aspects of the simulator.

 

but I'm not a pilot, or a tank driver, or a military, so I don't really know if weapons or armors are realistically represented in the simulator. I'm explaining my experience with BS, and also with FC2 where even the A10 cannon was not able to penetrate T55 armor...

[CAT_101st]

Sure they are!

 

Modern Tank have a very thin Topturret armor. Most between 40-60 mm

also backside isnt protectet well

 

Also HE rounds effekts Hard on Tanks,think about Optics-Wheels and other Sensitive Parts.

 

Most easy to Destroy in BS i think is T72.

T80 M1 and Leopard need some more hits.

T55 :noexpression: hm never Destroyed one with the Gun.

But modern Tanks Turrets are welded toghether from several parts. The T55 turret is made of one part maybe thats helpfull against smaller tracers (<50mm).

 

Ok thats 35mm but every Tank would get very bad hits by That.

 

 

Keep in mind that most of what you are talking about is in real life not in the game. The Tanks a a basic damidge moddle that does not incorperate where they get hit from altho hitting the tank with AP rounds will degrade its abillty to aim back at you. I have shot a T55 with every round AP and HA and have not ben able to stop it from moving. And that is light of a main battle tank that is in DCS. Guns aginst a tank are a waist of ammo and time spend the ammo on softer targets in hopes that your ground forces can take care of the tank.

 

In the situation stated befor. I have 100 AP rounds. It would be a good luck guys your on your own. I might fling them for 4K out but you wont see me going head on with a tank. from any angel.

[isoul]

 

in real life (and in other -more accurate *land warfare*- simulations) a tank can be out of the game for many reasons. a lucky cannon shot can disable optics, tracks, turret rotation, cannon elevation, engine or other systems causing the tank to be in condition of not being able to continue its mission and leaving the crew no other options than to flee away from the will-be-iron-coffin.

 

 

Indeed in real life a tank "kill" (destructive kill, mobility kill etc.) can be scored using various methods. Still, in real life you don't rely on lucky hits simply because there are some real lives (your own sometimes included) at risk. If that was the case machine-gun fire or HE mortar shells would be used in a hope to damage the tank optics or some other important piece of equipment.

 

After a short research in Wikipedia, the 2A42, using the right AP ammunition, is reported to be able to penetrate up to 55mm (yeah thats fifty five millimeters) of steel at a range of 1km. These values mean that you can harm BMPs and Bradleys for sure. No need to mention max armor values of tanks...

[DTWD]

I agree, with cannon vs tank just go home. I have never had success with it, although I have enjoyed watching the tracer ricochet around.

 

At the kind of distance you can survive at your not landing a great deal of rounds, at least not enough to actually blow the thing up.

 

I have only ever seen one sucessful tank get destroyed and that was on MP. The chap straffed the tank virtually point blank and used up virtually all his rounds, but the tank did explode.

 

Of course in RL this would have been folly as we were only a few KMs away from an airbase and I was sitting about 6 KMs away in a hover launching Vikers.

[Isegrim]

The point is its surely possible to destroy Tanks with 2A42 Gun.

 

It can be usefull but its dangerous and not really used in real life.

 

But i think the question was is it possible.

 

@CAT_101st

 

I know that the damage model of the Tanks are just basic but they are real

from top or back you can get them the thing with the T55 was more for my own Mind , cause turrets made from one piece are more resistant against small caliber guns.

I,ve done my work and was on Leopard 2A5 in German army many years so i know a little what im talking about.

 

At last those Tanks are set to expert.

Edited April 3, 2011 by Isegrim

[isoul]

Let me say it otherwise...

 

The 2A42 cannon was not designed or intended to deal with heavy armor.

 

For example same goes for Apache's 30mm chain gun which isn't expected to penetrate every armor part of a modern heavy tank (armor thicker than 70-80mm of steel).

 

I was serving in Greek Army Aviation and I 've heard one thing or two from the pilots themselves before posting it here. =)

[Isegrim]

@Isoul

I really have nothing against you or your ressources.

 

So dont get me wrong guys i just read in this Thread something about its impossible to Destroy Tanks with Gun and dont try this to a Newbie( I think;))

 

And Newbie says OK...

 

WHY?????

 

Thats just Wrong.;)

 

Sure this is tricky and needs practise (in SIM) but maybe he will never practise or try that if you write down such things.

And usefull it surely can be.

Edited April 3, 2011 by Isegrim

[isoul]

Isegrim we are just having different views on the same thing. We are not offending each other, neither I felt offended. Its just a polite conversation.

 

On the matter now... Everyone is free to play the game as he likes. I am trying to say that using cannon against tanks isn't advisable since it requires a lot of effort, even in-game, to do what is usually done with a pair of missiles.

 

On the other hand a newcomer may believe that cannon was meant to deal with heavy tanks and that is wrong too and may lead to some rather frustrating experiences.

 

Its like the numerous threads about fly with or without AP channels. You can fly as you want but you have to know that normal flight is always performed with AP channels turned ON. Thats the way the Ka-50 is meant to fly.

[Isegrim]

Ahm:huh:

 

Fixed;)

Edited April 3, 2011 by Isegrim

[CAT_101st]

@Isoul

I really have nothing against you or your ressources.

 

So dont get me wrong guys i just read in this Thread something about its impossible to Destroy Tanks with Gun and dont try this to a Newbie( I think;))

 

And Newbie says OK...

 

WHY?????

 

Thats just Wrong.;)

 

Sure this is tricky and needs practise (in SIM) but maybe he will never practise or try that if you write down such things.

And usefull it surely can be.

 

Thats the wrong way i think... Newbies have to grow up by themselves.

This way of thinking is waht made Japan lose in WWII. If Japan had kept their best pilots back to train the new pilots. The out come may have ben diffrint. The USAF and NAVY would pull the bes pilots off the line and send them back to train pilots going out to the $%^T. This keeps the level of pilots survivabilty much higher. Sending a new pilot out with out the best know how we can give them is a bad reflection on the DCS members as a whole. I offer training to anyone inside or out side of my flying groop. Doing this helps every one out. One it makes it so they and us don't have to go thrue the same old question every time someone new comes around. it also allows the new guys to get more enjoyment out of DCS and a better member of the comunnity.

 

<S> to all. keep the new guys comming back for more. :book: :smartass: :thumbup:

[Isegrim]

I deleted the last clause in my post you quotet above CAT.

 

You guys are really pieceshitters like Hell sorry for that had to say that :)

Edited April 3, 2011 by Isegrim

[CAT_101st]

LOL no wories.