Quick UTM Coord sample problem (omitted zeros)

[mooshim]

First, apologies to have to revisit this. The vets here must have their patience tried by those of us who are high functioning--but have reading comprehension issues.:cry:

____

I'm off the coast of sochi-adler.

 

I get a 9-line.

 

With what I've learned from Effte, STP dragon, warrior X and Strongharm, I confidently :smartass: enter UTM, name the steerpoint, switch from flightpath to mission, etc...

 

from Dragon:

 

Step by step:

 

- Switch the STEER PT knob to MISSION

- Press the [WP] button of the CDU

- Press 1st [<-] button to choose the waypoint menu

-> You should see the INIT. POS. WP now.

- Press 4th [<-] button to switch from L/L mode to UTM mode.

- Press 3rd [<-] button to copy the WP.

- Enter "TGT1" as WP-name

- Press 1st [<-] button to overwrite the old WP name.

- Enter "37T" or "38T" depending on the position of the targets.

- Press 3rd [->] button to overwrite the old UTM-zone.

- Call the JTAC and ask for the coordinates.

- Enter the coordinates (two letters and six digits)

- Press 4th [->] button to overwrite the old coordinates.

- Press Cooliehat UP to set the HUD as SOI.

- Zoom to the HUD and switch the WP by pressing DMS up till "TGT1" appears.

- Press Chinahat forward long to slew your TGP to the SPI (target).

 

__________________

I have the default 37T grid.

 

My question is regarding the zero(s) apparently omitted from the JTAC call in the sim.

 

Having heard "EJ80153" I should enter__________

 

A) EJ80153

B) EJ080153

C) EJ0080153

D) EJ0800153

E) EJ8000153

 

Many thanks.

 

Cheers,

Moosh

 

P.S.

 

I've tried all and have produced SPIs wildly off target.

 

FYI: I'm in Threshor's night FAC practice mission

[Sinky]

I haven't done this in a while now, just got back to the sim, how about trying EJ801530? I'm guessing he is dropping a trailing zero.

 

My thinking is that dropping leading zero's will only cause utter confusion so I doubt it's modelled like that however dropping a zero at the end of the coordinates seems reasonable.

Edited April 3, 2011 by Sinky

[charonx]

B

[WarriorX]

Hi Mooshim,

 

No worries. You know I am always glad to help.

 

Please start at post 35 in this thread: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=68946&page=4

 

You can try those methods, but it is a bug to have a UTM coordinate with less than 6 numerical values.

 

Sorry I can not be of more help. Let me know how it goes.

[nomdeplume]

I think it should be 'B' as well, pretty sure they only drop leading 0s. Possibly the target location is in a different grid zone? They also omit that information, which isn't very nice of them.

[mooshim]

I think it should be 'B' as well, pretty sure they only drop leading 0s. Possibly the target location is in a different grid zone? They also omit that information, which isn't very nice of them.

 

Copy that.

 

That was my first response... SPI was about 25 miles... It was the closest of all of them to target, however.

 

 

Warrior X

 

Many thanks...

 

Will get to this this evening.

 

Cheers All for the help,

 

Moosh

[KillaALF]

F) EJ801053

[Zenra]

F) EJ801053

 

Quite possible. You may also want to try changing the grid to 38T...

[FZG_Immel]

depends... 2 possibilites..

 

lets admit you have something like that : EJ80153

 

Most of the times, you must enter EJ 080153

 

But I have encoutered situations were it was actually EJ 801053

 

I have tracks to prove it.

[WRFirefox]

or wait for datalink and set a mark to the red dot, change to mark at CDU - SPI - TGP - and blow it away.....

[Itkovian]

from Dragon:

 

Step by step:

 

- Switch the STEER PT knob to MISSION

- Press the [WP] button of the CDU

- Press 1st [<-] button to choose the waypoint menu

-> You should see the INIT. POS. WP now.

- Press 4th [<-] button to switch from L/L mode to UTM mode.

- Press 3rd [<-] button to copy the WP.

- Enter "TGT1" as WP-name

- Press 1st [<-] button to overwrite the old WP name.

- Enter "37T" or "38T" depending on the position of the targets.

- Press 3rd [->] button to overwrite the old UTM-zone.

- Call the JTAC and ask for the coordinates.

- Enter the coordinates (two letters and six digits)

- Press 4th [->] button to overwrite the old coordinates.

- Press Cooliehat UP to set the HUD as SOI.

- Zoom to the HUD and switch the WP by pressing DMS up till "TGT1" appears.

- Press Chinahat forward long to slew your TGP to the SPI (target).

 

I have a question concerning that procedure:

 

Last step is to slew your TGP to the SPI... but at what point in the procedure did you set your SPI?

 

Is the current steerpoint automatically your SPI when you make the HUD the SOI?

 

It looks to me that a step to set the SPI is missing. I'm not sure if using the HUD to set SPI will set it to the streerpoint (wouldn't it be set to the HUD marker?).

 

Thank you.

 

Itkovian

[Zenra]

If the HUD is in NAV mode and you command HUD as SOI then the current steer point becomes your SPI (EN manual, p399).

[nomdeplume]

A better final step in the above would be CHINA HAT AFT LONG, which slews the TGP to the current steerpoint regardless of what the SPI is. You can also set the STPT as the SPI by using TMS DOWN LONG. I think that also works no matter what the SOI is.

[Itkovian]

A better final step in the above would be CHINA HAT AFT LONG, which slews the TGP to the current steerpoint regardless of what the SPI is. You can also set the SPT as the SPI by using TMS DOWN LONG. I think that also works no matter what the SOI is.

 

I rather like the former... so then you can set the TGP as SOI, then set it as SPI and slave all to it to start firing the Mavs and such?

 

The latter is also nice... TMS down long is a good shortcut if it works for all SOIs.

 

Here's a question to sate my curiousity (I'm one of those people who reads the entire manual, but I'm not at the weapons employment section yet):

 

If I want to drop some bombs, for example, what will the HUD sight use as its target point? Does it automatically assume you are aiming for the current SPI? Or does it follow where the SOI is currently pointed?

 

So for example, say I've set the steerpoint as SPI, then I switch to the TGP after I've Slaved All to SPI, and move the TGP around a bit to another target nearby.

 

Will the CCRP sight still be "aimed" (I mean the vertical line that appears on the HUD, that I believe indicates offset to the target) at the steer point, or will it be "aimed" at where the TGP is currently pointed?

 

If the former, how do I switch it to the TGP's new target? Make the TGP the SPI?

 

Thank you.

 

Itkovian

[nemises]

yes, it will draw the bomb elevation cue based on the current SPI.

 

So in your example, the bomb cue is at the Steerpoint (and , by the way is also a function of the steerpoints stored elevation!...if it's at altitude you should either set a mark and use that, or change the steerpoint elevation mode to DTS).

 

In order to tell it to use the TGP instead, you would need to set TGP and SPI (TMS-long-fwd I think with TGP as SOI)...take a laser range as well if using TGP as SPI for bomb cue's, and also make sure to aim at the ground UNDER the target if possible, else the slant angle deviation can steer a precision bomb incorrectly)

[Itkovian]

yes, it will draw the bomb elevation cue based on the current SPI.

 

So in your example, the bomb cue is at the Steerpoint (and , by the way is also a function of the steerpoints stored elevation!...if it's at altitude you should either set a mark and use that, or change the steerpoint elevation mode to DTS).

 

In order to tell it to use the TGP instead, you would need to set TGP and SPI (TMS-long-fwd I think with TGP as SOI)...take a laser range as well if using TGP as SPI for bomb cue's, and also make sure to aim at the ground UNDER the target if possible, else the slant angle deviation can steer a precision bomb incorrectly)

 

Excellent, thank you. So the cue is based on SPI. *mental note* :)

 

Concerning the streepoint's elevation... do you mean its elevation above MSL, or above ground (probalby the former, but maybe the TDU has the ground elevation above MSL stored already and "knows" the ground's elevation automatically)?

 

Itkovian

[nemises]

good question, it'll be whatever altitude is correct according to the altimiter depending on the altimeter pressure setting :)

..so MSL assuming you use QNH (is this correct usage anyone?)

 

DTS is what you are referring to there, which I believe is a ground elevation map, which is why setting DTS mode is a good idea if you are bombing (although if you set Marks, they'll be at DTS ground level anyway)

[Itkovian]

good question, it'll be whatever altitude is correct according to the altimiter depending on the altimeter pressure setting :)

..so MSL assuming you use QNH (is this correct usage anyone?)

 

DTS is what you are referring to there, which I believe is a ground elevation map, which is why setting DTS mode is a good idea if you are bombing (although if you set Marks, they'll be at DTS ground level anyway)

 

Allright, I'll have to figure out waht DTS is (I am RTFMing, but not halfway through yet). Though my thinking was to use markpoints anyway (it's rather easy to drop one and then change its coordinates, or hook the JTAC symbol and drop a mark point.

 

Itkovian

[WarriorX]

If memory serves me right, the DTS system is a Digital Terrain System.

 

From just checking my recollections in the manual for accuracy, the DTS is abbreviated for the Digital Terrain System Application Software (DTSAS)

 

Page 173 of the Flight Manual at the bottom states:

 

"DTSAS Figure of Merit (FOM). The Digital Terrain System Application Software (DTSAS)

consists of a digital elevation database. DTSAS allows ground collision and obstacle

warnings. The FOM value indicates how accurate the DTSAS data is."

 

This is not to be confused with the Data Transfer System Load Page which is also referred as the DTS Page. So, when you see DTS in the Flight Manual, read carefully and make sure you know which system is being referenced.

[Itkovian]

If memory serves me right, the DTS system is a Digital Terrain System.

 

From just checking my recollections in the manual for accuracy, the DTS is abbreviated for the Digital Terrain System Application Software (DTSAS)

 

Page 173 of the Flight Manual at the bottom states:

 

"DTSAS Figure of Merit (FOM). The Digital Terrain System Application Software (DTSAS)

consists of a digital elevation database. DTSAS allows ground collision and obstacle

warnings. The FOM value indicates how accurate the DTSAS data is."

 

This is not to be confused with the Data Transfer System Load Page which is also referred as the DTS Page. So, when you see DTS in the Flight Manual, read carefully and make sure you know which system is being referenced.

 

Aaah, when acronyms collide! :)

 

Itkovian

[mooshim]

Aaah, when acronyms collide! :)

 

Itkovian

 

I was trying to understand some discussion on here last week between a Pilot (Paul?) and someone else...and he mentioned FOD in the cockpit.

 

Wikipedia came up with this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friend_of_Dorothy

:music_whistling:

[WarriorX]

Was it FOD referring to a "FOD walk"?---Where you walk the carrier deck/runway for foreign objects that need to be picked up?

 

Foreign Object Debris?

 

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:US_Navy_070327-N-8923M-157_Sailors_participate_in_a_foreign_object_damage_%28FOD%29_walkdown_aboard_Nimitz-class_aircraft_carrier_USS_Harry_S._Truman_%28CVN_75%29.jpg

 

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:US_Navy_050720-N-7286M-017_Sailors_assigned_to_the_Helicopter_Anti-Submarine_Light_Squadrons_based_on_board_Naval_Air_Station_%28NAS%29_North_Island,_conduct_a_Foreign_Object_Debris_%28FOD%29_walk_down.jpg

Edited April 5, 2011 by WarriorX

[mooshim]

Was it FOD referring to a "FOD walk"?---Where you walk the carrier deck/runway for foreign objects that need to be picked up?

 

Foreign Object Debris?

 

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:US_Navy_070327-N-8923M-157_Sailors_participate_in_a_foreign_object_damage_%28FOD%29_walkdown_aboard_Nimitz-class_aircraft_carrier_USS_Harry_S._Truman_%28CVN_75%29.jpg

 

copy that Warrior... foreign object damage.

 

LOL...That first pic is hilarious. Excellent for a caption contest. My dad (ex-navy) used to make the family do that after a picnic looking for his lost car keys.

 

Wow.. that took me back, thx

[kingneptune117]

I really dont understand all the confusion over this. I enter exactly what the JTAC gives me, and it works every time. Just enter it in as a new way-point. Make sure you have to it set to UTM or L/L depending on what type he gives you.

[mooshim]

I really dont understand all the confusion over this. I enter exactly what the JTAC gives me, and it works every time.

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=1142291&highlight=zeros#post1142291