Air Refueling - Any tips?

[sobek]

Several times when I approach the tanker and am holding position, the boom operator has fallen asleep. Boom does not move at all?

 

That usually happens when the boom is damaged. I've spent a considerable amount of time refueling and it never happened to me with an undamaged boom.

[lobo]

Looks like he already took some battledamage, as the left gear seems to be extended :smartass:

 

Agree. I was able to get full fuel with no damage however wingman was not so lucky. Check this post out link below. Pics towards the bottom show damage to wingmans canopy from the refueling. AI Wingman did not turn on his slipway lights, (RCVR Light) making it more difficult for AI boom operator to do his job. He may have been smacking boom off wingys canopy in some twisted form of AI protest... :smilewink:

 

Pics here:

 

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3311247.html#Post3311247

[Custer]

I think I set my curve to 15 on both x and y and a deadzone of 5 for both. I have an x52.

 

Without the curve it was nearly impossible for me. I still have a very large amount of trouble. I have yet to stay connected for more than maybe 15 seconds. Very challenging and takes a lot of practice.

 

Really good tips with the deadzone, curves and the trim, could stay connected now for the whole refuel. Then the weather was perfect and no wind. :thumbup:

[lobo]

Some tips that have helped me.

-Trim it for speed before moving to contact.

-Ignore the HUD info once you are close to the tanker.

-Fly formation on the tanker not the boom. ie look through the boom.

-For extreme precision flying I rest my forearm on my leg while applying slight pressure as required to the joystick.

-Once connected (while still flying formation on the tanker) make adjustments as required to keep the boom in the green arc.

-breathe.

-relax death grip on stick.

Edited June 5, 2011 by lobo**

[_Heater_]

stay behind the tanker, TRIM your aircarft and set the speed same at as the tanker. Stay 5 feets under the actual altitude the tanker.

Not look the probe, can make mistakes.

 

here a little tutorial in Italian:

[Wichid]

Here's a quick video of a practice I did yesterday. I've been learning this for about 3 days so I'm no expert but this is what I've learnt so far.

 

 

Set up your Joystick for incredibly fine movements at the centre. I use a curve on the X & Y axis of 30, others use 50. See what suits you for refueling. I can't imagine refueling with a linear axis (anyone done this?) If you are fighting the stick then this will solve this problem.

 

Safe the aircraft including turning PAC off. If PAC is on the aircraft trim will be wrong when you open the slipway. (Anyone else notice this? The aircraft noses up when you open the slipway as PAC seems to disable). On training missions I tend to start in the air and the aircraft is armed so this caught me out the first time.

 

Fly up in formation to the tanker before declaring pre contact, match speed and trim for that speed. When you slow down or speed up the trim will be wrong but it will be right when you match speed again for refueling.

 

Announce your ready pre contact after moving up behind the tanker at a walking pace. Don't aim for the height as this is too much of a down angle. You want to be about 10 ft below the aircraft with a fairly horizontal boom angle (30 deg down?).

 

If you use Track-IR (and if you dont buy one) pause it whilst looking up out of your cockpit. This will let you see most of the tanker, you want to keep the tanker steady on your screen as you refill so this locked reference will help a lot.

 

If you keep it steady the boom operator will fly the boom into your tank. If it doesn't go in you are probably at a wrong angle - re-approach from a new angle, usually higher, or you are closing too fast.

 

Don't worry about colliding with the nozzle or the colored pipe, this is non clipping and won't damage the aircraft (i've had the nozzle go through my canopy a few times).

 

AVOID the grey boom, this will collide and kill you. Use the airbrakes and nose down if you have to.

 

Work the throttles very carefully to close very slowly and when you make contact keep the boom in the green. So far I have to either move in and out slowly. I can barely keep it still so it's just a matter of moving around the length of the boom trying not to disconnect. You'll need to predict what your input will do to your speed as it takes a few seconds for the engines to increase / decrease speed sometimes. If I was better at this I would make much finer adjustments.

 

If you disconnect don't panic, just press the NWS button to recycle the valves and move in again.

 

Press the NWS button to disconnect or wait until the tanks are full, then return to formation flying and depart.

[ivanwfr]

Thanks Wichid for this detailed report as it's a good addition to one of those topics in real need for documentation.

 

I understand you're talking about your awareness priorities at the moment and I guess time may have them swapped along the learning curve.

 

Most of what you talk about does make sense but I expected you would mention using only one engine throttle for finer speed control while connected... Did you try that ?

[kylania]

Can you change curves on the fly? Because a curve of 30-50 means I can't control my plane without tumbling your stick during the other 99.9% of my flight. I tried a curve of 25 one night and I was barely able to maneuver or turn/bank without drastic stick movement and lost a lot of control over my plane. Basically like flying through mud. Sure things were smooth, but everything was slow.

[ivanwfr]

I know of TM Warthog dynamic curve adjustment solution, but this is not an in-game option as it requires advanced TARGET scripting.

[Wichid]

I don't have a throttle that has dual control. I have the TM Warthog on order though!

 

I did hear this, does it yaw the aircraft when you increase one engine slightly?

[kylania]

It sure does. My friend used to use that trick instead of rudder since he had no pedals. :)

[Exigo]

Well ill post my two recorded refuel runs and illustrate what i do.

 

 

 

In the first video if you notice around 5 minutes in when i have made contact, that little "window" above the HUD. Notice how the KC-135 represents a cross inside a sight of sorts. I use this as a reference to locate my position relative to the KC-135. The boom has a max and min limits of degrees relative to the KC-135 airframe, i believe its between 20 and 40 degrees and anything outside this will disconnect the boom. The "sweet spot" is said to be around 32 degrees. If you look at 5.02 on the first vid that is as close to perfect as we can get with our limited situational awareness. Its all practice but having a reference point like my "cross" helps.

 

Setting curves on the joy helps alot, this is a setting that is kinda personal so something that works for me wont work for you. But i think i have set it to 15 atm.

 

Also you need to remember that physics are at play in the game, so as you take on fuel you need to increase throttle to keep up with the tanker, so finding the throttle setting on pre-contact will disconnect you after a few hundred pounds more of JET-A on board.

 

Its a constant input battle and even in RL it is, training is key. If you get frustrated leave it and come back later.

[FreeFall]

Exigo, nobody can handle the stick/plane that accurately and smoothly. You must be cheatin' somehow. :unsure: :D

[Fish]

I know of TM Warthog dynamic curve adjustment solution, but this is not an in-game option as it requires advanced TARGET scripting.

 

Cougar has the same option. I use it for refueling

 

CURVE /U (JOYX,-2) (JOYY,-2)
/m (JOYX,-0) (JOYY,-0)
/d (JOYX,-0) (JOYY,-0)

[44th_Rooster]

In real life when flying this close to another aircraft it can help to imagine that you are stirring the worlds tiniest coffee cup... relax and wiggle your fingers every once in a while,..... and do not get over tense....

[Exigo]

Exigo, nobody can handle the stick/plane that accurately and smoothly. You must be cheatin' somehow. :unsure: :D

 

Ill take that as a compliment :pilotfly:

 

Thank you

[711Hancer]

In real life when flying this close to another aircraft it can help to imagine that you are stirring the worlds tiniest coffee cup... relax and wiggle your fingers every once in a while,..... and do not get over tense....

 

and they stir it with nomex flight gloves in real life.

 

must be very hard. I have one of those gloves and I think using gloves during flight is somewhat stupid since the switches are very very small in real aircraft, especially for big handed guys.

[Exigo]

and they stir it with nomex flight gloves in real life.

 

must be very hard. I have one of those gloves and I think using gloves during flight is somewhat stupid since the switches are very very small in real aircraft, especially for big handed guys.

 

 

The Nomex flight gloves are actually kinda nice to have when flying. I use em when flying the Blackhawk and its a thing you get used to tbh. Real military issue NOMEX gloves are very thin.

 

They are also issued for a reason as they protect from fire and heat, cold air if you need to eject, injury protection when fumbling around some poorly finished cockpits/flight decks having protruding screws and sharp edges and finger retention for those who persist in wearing rings against military orders to the contrary. How many have lost fingers resulting from a ring which gets caught up on some protrusion when exiting from a fighter type aircraft. An added bonus is that if you tend to get sweaty hands in warm weather(like me) you wont loose grip on the controls because of sweaty hands.

 

You get used to them, just remember to buy them as small as possible and from a known brand like Hatch or Blackhawk. They should live up to the phrase "Like a glove" :D

[711Hancer]

are they being sold in ebay?

[Exigo]

Umm i guess :D

 

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p5197.m570.l1313&_nkw=nomex+flight+gloves&_sacat=See-All-Categories

[711Hancer]

yea I have those :) check this out:

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=78592

 

but they are still not very comfortable

[44th_Rooster]

and they stir it with nomex flight gloves in real life.

 

must be very hard. I have one of those gloves and I think using gloves during flight is somewhat stupid since the switches are very very small in real aircraft, especially for big handed guys.

When you wear them in real life they fit very tight so it isn't a big deal. It is actually very comfortable.

 

Also when you are in close formation nice to have a good grip when your hands get sweaty. So I submit to you that it is not very stupid at all.

 

Sincerely,

"Rooster"

Edited October 4, 2011 by 44th_Rooster

[mooshim]

Some tips that have helped me.

...

-breathe.

...

 

This helped me the most as well as, one might wish to experiment with the finer inputs available (via keyboard) to throttle

 

 

Throttle Both Up

Throttle Both Down

 

Throttle Left Up Step

Throttle Left Down Step

 

Throttle Left Up

Throttle Left Down

 

Throttle Right Up Step

Throttle Right Down Step

 

Throttle Right Up

Throttle Right Down

 

 

Since there is a difference between Throttle L/R Up/Dn and Throttle L/R Up/Dn Step

 

I wonder why an option like *"Throttle Both Up/Dn Step" doesn't exist. --enabling sim pilot to make finer inputs with one key press.:huh:

 

It makes me think that perhaps there's something missing in my understanding of Throttle Friction Inc/Dec. Perhaps those options would help me to refine my inputs. --Even on the fly, as these are adjustable by my left knee in cockpit (!).

 

I wonder if these inputs are used by anyone in the community...or could be useful.

 

...maybe this dog just wont hunt.

 

Would appreciate anyone in the know who could comment on this issue.

 

Thanks,

 

Moosh

[Fakum]

[ATTACH]58810[/ATTACH]

 

I was just getting around to the dreded AA refueling, I spent a few hours last week on it,, all seemed to be going well. This week I did a fresh install of Ver 1.1.1.0, The boom is not dropping from the tanker? Also, I noticed when I 1st contact the tanker, i am getting a response via the text at the top left corner, but no Audio? Then I have no response for pre contact (or what ever the 2nd call is, I just dont remember right now?). I made weapons safe and have the gate open,, What is going wrong here? Like I said,, no audio response either, just text? I attached a sample track,, flight is a bit squirley as my primary intenet was to make a quick track. Please advise, thanks

[FreeFall]

Also, I noticed when I 1st contact the tanker, i am getting a response via the text at the top left corner, but no Audio? Then I have no response for pre contact (or what ever the 2nd call is, I just dont remember right now?).

 

Didn't try your track, but after flying an old refuel.miz (which I downloaded from this forum a long time ago) I can confirm the lack of audio with 1st contact. However, finally I got the audio response (with 2nd contact) and boom as well when I got real close to the tanker. Had to be much more closer than before IMHO. And got filled up nicely.

 

edit: Also this "break away break away" thingy happening. Described in another thread:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=81599

Edited November 14, 2011 by FreeFall
edit1: typo, edit2: additional info