Air Refueling - Any tips?

[Fakum]

Actually,, what your describing is exactly what I have been doing. I take the time to line up with the tanker and get my trim all dialed in including noting the air speed. I am STILL having major hook up issues,,,, I claim throttle curve as being a large percentage of that, but there are often times where I got it all right, and if I stick my tounge out I could probably hit the boom,, lol,,, I lead it right to the sweet spot but I just cant get that last 6 inches to connect. My x & y curves are satisfactory enough, but i jst cant get those minute changes I need with the throttle, where I need them. i have set the curves here and there but as you all know,,, the hogs weight is inconsistant, so your not going to get the same indent location on the throttle at the same spot each scenerio etc.,,, Ive had to back off for now due to the headaches,, man,, a few hours at a wack at this,,, the tention of keeping still and trying to do those VERY minute adj on the HOTAS,,,,

[Mirtma]

Actually,, what your describing is exactly what I have been doing. I take the time to line up with the tanker and get my trim all dialed in including noting the air speed. I am STILL having major hook up issues,,,, I claim throttle curve as being a large percentage of that, but there are often times where I got it all right, and if I stick my tounge out I could probably hit the boom,, lol,,, I lead it right to the sweet spot but I just cant get that last 6 inches to connect. My x & y curves are satisfactory enough, but i jst cant get those minute changes I need with the throttle, where I need them. i have set the curves here and there but as you all know,,, the hogs weight is inconsistant, so your not going to get the same indent location on the throttle at the same spot each scenerio etc.,,, Ive had to back off for now due to the headaches,, man,, a few hours at a wack at this,,, the tention of keeping still and trying to do those VERY minute adj on the HOTAS,,,,

 

I know exactly what you are talking about. :joystick:

[Fakum]

I was thinking last night, I dont use the rotary on the T6 Range knob on the throttle (Thrustmaster Cougar HOTAS),, I would love to be able to use this as a "Fine Tune" feature of the throttle,,,,

[Advicepuppy]

I usually end up getting impaled on the refueling boom, so you're not doing too bad :P

 

And I mean that sh*t literally comes through my windshield and into my chest, killing my pilot whilst the plane stays intact before slowly veering away and then careening into the ground.

[FreeFall]

Is it me or did air refueling get slightly easier in the new patch? It seems the boom is more forgiving, more flexible now..?

 

Seems to be that way. Or my refueling skills are suddenly improved drastically?

Anyway, I haven't seen those huge fireballs (tanker + me) diving into sea anymore. After the 1.1.1.0 patch, I mean.

 

By the way, after patch 1.1.1.0, I changed the curvature setting of my TM HOTAS Warthog stick from 20 to 10. With the 1.1.1.0 and with curvature 20 the steering was way too "slow". Originally I changed the curvature (from 0 to 20) specifically because of AAR.

Edited November 21, 2011 by FreeFall

[Fish]

......I claim throttle curve as being a large percentage of that...

 

You can shift the throttle position forward by applying some airbrakes. This might give you a more accurate part of your input device. Found if i was light and tanker slow, the throttle was almost at detent.

[Fish]

Seems to be that way. Or my refueling skills are suddenly improved drastically?

Anyway, I haven't seen those huge fireballs (tanker + me) diving into sea anymore. After the 1.1.1.0 patch, I mean.

 

By the way, after patch 1.1.1.0, I changed the curvature setting of my TM HOTAS Warthog stick from 20 to 10. With the 1.1.1.0 and with curvature 20 the steering was way too "slow". Originally I changed the curvature (from 0 to 20) specifically because of AAR.

 

Don't know if difficulty was tweaked as its been a while since i crashed the tanker, maybe a tester can comment.

 

I do think it was a little ridiculous, that if you crashed into the boom, more often than not, you would bring down the tanker !!

[Fakum]

You can shift the throttle position forward by applying some airbrakes. This might give you a more accurate part of your input device. Found if i was light and tanker slow, the throttle was almost at detent.

 

Yeah,, I have dabbled into that,,, but what I mean is,,, say I need to bee at 200 to be steady with the tanker,, and im at about 199 and slowly drifting back,, I nudge the throttle as slight as I can to get to say 200 or 201,, I hit it buts its creeping up, now I have to nudge it back,,,, I need to get better contol of the throttle so I can make those very fine adj so I dont over and then undershoot

[Dejjvid]

When i refuel in MP in 1.1.1.0 someting is spooky.

 

I can connect, he says im taking fuel. And 1 sec later he always say disconnect. The boom is still in. And i can fly with the boom in for 10min straight. But i don't take any fuel. Then i press NWS, latched goes to disconnect, i press NWS again, and instant connect, taking fuel, and 1 sec later disconnect.

 

I've refueled succesfully loads of times in earlier patches.

 

MP bug or something obvious that im missing?

 

I've tried to stay lower and higher.

 

He says disconnect even if i'm 100% lined up, green bar and no movement on the boom at all.

 

master arm off, tgp off, CMS stby.

 

MP bug or am i missing something obvious that's new to this patch?

All fill disable switches is in default, crossfeed is off, tk gate default.

 

Edit: have not tried in SP in 1.1.1.0

And the tanker is placed in a mission i've made. Is there perhaps something wrong with the tanker settings?

Edited November 22, 2011 by Dejjvid

[JG2_Miller]

Track would be helpful Dejjvid, but I suggest you already had your tanks full.

[44th_Rooster]

Small adjustments. When your used to flying in close formation it is relatively easy. Keep very tiny movements on the throttle. You don't have dead zones and curves at all and such in a real throttle. Keep in mind your trying to be good at something when your not trained at it formally. Keep up the hard work and patience, as the muscle memory will follow soon. Keep your eyes moving, do not get tense. Just relax.

 

Flying formation when trained is a way of life and as far as a sweet spot.....not really it is just natural to stay in position.

 

Sincerely,

"Rooster"

Edited November 23, 2011 by 44th_Rooster

[44th_Rooster]

BTW,... consider a touch of nose down trim as it is nice to control only back stick pressure instead of up and down with a tiny dead zone in between.

 

Sincerely,

"Rooster"

[Dejjvid]

I'll see if i can come up with a track tonight.

 

I had 7300lbs total, less then 70% of maximum.

And I can fly with the boom connected for 10min straight, I'm well within its envelope.

It only disconnects visually when I press NWS.

 

Edit: Perhaps someone can post a mission where you know AAR works in MP and 1.1.1.0 ?

TCN range didn't work in the mission until i replaced the tanker and changed from 12Y to 1X. Perhaps some other setting on the KC-135 is wrong too.

Edited November 23, 2011 by Dejjvid

[JG2_Miller]

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=68802

 

The Weapons Training mission contains two tankers, I think one is following a two waypoints flight plan and the other one is turning in circles. In this mission I refueled about 40 times without a problem.

[Dejjvid]

Thanks! I'll try tonight!

[Eddie]

I'll see if i can come up with a track tonight.

 

I had 7300lbs total, less then 70% of maximum.

And I can fly with the boom connected for 10min straight, I'm well within its envelope.

It only disconnects visually when I press NWS.

 

Edit: Perhaps someone can post a mission where you know AAR works in MP and 1.1.1.0 ?

TCN range didn't work in the mission until i replaced the tanker and changed from 12Y to 1X. Perhaps some other setting on the KC-135 is wrong too.

 

In MP the host can't refuel beyond 7-8000lbs. This is a known bug and will hopefully be fixed for the 1.1.1.1, no guarantees though.

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=68802

 

The Weapons Training mission contains two tankers, I think one is following a two waypoints flight plan and the other one is turning in circles. In this mission I refueled about 40 times without a problem.

 

Missions with more than one tanker won't work at the moment. Causes a crash in 1.1.1.0.

[Dejjvid]

Eddie, if you ever come to Sweden and Gotland. All the beer is on me! :)

 

You saved my day! ( and my self esteem ) :)

 

 

Update:

 

I started with 800lbs of fuel. And filled up to 8400lbs in one try. Then he disconnected. So it's 'working' now. Nothing wrong with the piloting skills ;)

This will have to do until it's fixed in a coming patch.

Edited November 23, 2011 by Dejjvid

[Fakum]

Just wondering,,, what has been the average time frame for one to become compfortable with connecting to the tanker? I realize there are a few key variables, such as what type of controls are used, curve settings, user skills, etc. I ask this because I have somewhere betwenn 10 to 20 hours in just on this,, I have hooked up once for about 5 seconds. I am VERY frustrated still,,, Im actually still getting headaches from the stress it takes to sit ther and trying to make the oh so slight adjustments needed to keep level and the dang throttle from over and undershooting 1 to 2 knts. I get right to the boom and watch it right at the sweet spot only to fail with the connect. So I ask,,, whats the typical time it takes to practice before you become more frequently successfull? 10 hrs 100?

[Mirtma]

Just wondering,,, what has been the average time frame for one to become compfortable with connecting to the tanker? I realize there are a few key variables, such as what type of controls are used, curve settings, user skills, etc. I ask this because I have somewhere betwenn 10 to 20 hours in just on this,, I have hooked up once for about 5 seconds. I am VERY frustrated still,,, Im actually still getting headaches from the stress it takes to sit ther and trying to make the oh so slight adjustments needed to keep level and the dang throttle from over and undershooting 1 to 2 knts. I get right to the boom and watch it right at the sweet spot only to fail with the connect. So I ask,,, whats the typical time it takes to practice before you become more frequently successfull? 10 hrs 100?

 

Same with me. I think I was trying more than 10 hours with only one 5 sec. connection. I just can't control throttle precise enough. It bothers me because I know that IRL there is almost no mission with at least one air refueling.

 

Don't flame me :chair:, but maybe there should be some kind of cheat to help connect those of us without enough steady hand or with old hotas - or both. :joystick:

[Dejjvid]

2 hrs for me. The hardest part was learning to ignore the boom. I only look at the tanker, and really quick glances at the colors.

 

I do really small adjustments of the throttle, if i need to increase power, i nudge up a tiny, tiny bit, then back again. If it's not sufficient, i nudge up again, and back. I reckon i adjust throttles once every 3 secs.

 

Edit: Forgot, i tried AAR during early beta when i had my X52, i didn't succeed. The joystick is way too flappy for me. If i'd try again with X52, i would adjust curves too about 98...

Edited November 29, 2011 by Dejjvid

[FreeFall]

I get right to the boom and watch it right at the sweet spot only to fail with the connect. ?

 

Is it possible that you are flying too high? Or low. The operational boom angle is very restricted. So even if the boom is right before your nose, the angle might be wrong and you won't be connected.

 

Try to adjust your flying level compared with the tanker. I think I used to fly too high originally. But now I'm pretty comfortable with the boom. Takes only some 3 - 4 reconnects to get filled up. :)

 

Edit: By the way, if you want to get your hands sweaty, try AAR. Sweaty hands guaranteed. :megalol:

Edited November 29, 2011 by FreeFall

[Fakum]

I think I will post a track to give a better perspective of what I am experiencing,,, I am having a hard time believing it is this difficult,,,, thanks for the feedback so far,,, after all these months,, I am thinking about throwing in the towel if I cant get over this hurdle,,,, I have to find a way to learn,, otherwise all the other training I have invested in is worthless,,, thats a sad thought

[FreeFall]

Maybe you have seen this video posted here some time ago (by Exigo):

 

Anyway, watch it again and take a look at the location/position of the tanker. And try to imitate it while you are closing the tanker yourself.

 

The boom angle has upper and lower limits. Of course left and right limits too, but u can easier "see" if you are crossing left/right limits. When you finally reach contact, it would be nice if you were located so that the boom angle is not even close to its upper or lower limit. But instead right in the middle. This way you can "wander around" more before the boom hits the limit and you are disconnected.

Edited November 29, 2011 by FreeFall

[Fakum]

Thanks for the youtube post,, Ive seen a few, but not that one. I think I may be comming in a bit too high,,, I am reviewing this approach and will make adj. I see he is maintaining very well,,,, mine drifts a bit up and down as I make minute changes to compensate,,, I also notic as he makes his aproach,,, the boom lifted up as he got real close,,, I am not getting that effect,, so I have an appraoch altitude correction to make it seems as well,,,, thanks very much,, im sure I will be reporting back,,,

[FreeFall]

I see he is maintaining very well,,,, mine drifts a bit up and down as I make minute changes to compensate,,, I also notic as he makes his aproach,,, the boom lifted up as he got real close,,, I am not getting that effect,,

 

Exigo's steering is absolutely marvellous! I often over-compensate and end up oscillating all over.

 

The boom really is lifted. That's why you should't use the (tip of the) boom as an aimpoint when you approach; if you use it as an aimpoint, you'll lose concentration when it's lifted.

 

Strange, if you haven't seen the boom lift...?

 

edit: Pure speculation: Maybe you haven't seen the boom lift because its angle already has reached the upper limit when you are approaching? So you really are high.

Edited November 29, 2011 by FreeFall
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