How To: Remove centre detend from Saitek Pro Flight Rudder Paddles

[PeterP]

Imagine this situation:

You controlling the Black Shark and you just looked a target and want to shoot a Vikhr...

You trimmed and you a re almost there to shoot...

The only thing you still have to do is to move your nose a tiny little notch to the right to get launch permission from the targeting computer and finally fire the missile...

- but there is a little thing that prevents you to do this accurately ! ... :

the annoying centre detent on your Rudder Pedals !!! :mad:

 

 

 

Above is just a little example what can happen in many situations using the Saitek Rudders.

 

Please don't get me wrong -

The Saitek Rudders are very reliable and sturdy and I would recommend them any-time again to others - they offer the most for your money on the market - I use mine since three years ( two years without the detent) and have no problem in accuracy and stability .

 

... BUT :

I don't know any Aircraft that has a center detent at the pedals...,

why Saitek decided to do this ?! -

Not only that this is very unrealistic - it makes also small adjustments near this detent nearly impossible !

:doh:

 

How To:

Remove the (annoying) centre detent from Saitek Pro Flight-

and Combat- Rudder Pedals

 

One notice about your warranty :

Doing it in the way I described it here - without braking/further modifying something inside them should not remove your warranty -at least here in Germany!

As you just make them fit for the by Saitek advertised purpose that is : Fine controll of the Simulation. A German court would judge the same - you just have to remove a part that is non-critical to the whole structure to be able to fully use them.

 

But:

 

The optional Step 9. and 10. can conflict with the warranty.

 

 

So let's get started...

You will need this tools:

 

Needle nose pliers

Small Cross-head screwdriver

and about 30min of time and the same amount of concentration...

(a calm and clean working-place will also help significant to stay in between the 30min time-frame ;) )

 

 

1.Remove all screws from the backside and don't forget the Four screws that are hidden under the rubber pads.

 

 

 

 

2.Disconnect one side of the spring so that the mechanic of the pedals will not stay under pressure while you working your way through to the detent of the the rudder pedals.

 

 

 

 

3.Remove the small Metal rod by pushing it gently to one side with the pliers.

 

 

 

 

4.Pull off the centre-ring that holds the axis together.

 

 

 

 

5.Gently bend the side of the pedal up (about 1cm) and move the turning middle section down to disconnect it from the pedal.

Do the same with the other side.

 

 

 

 

6.Move both (now freely moving) pedals in opposite direction...

 

 

 

 

7. ... to be able to pull off the middle plate from the axis. Be careful with the wires !

 

 

 

 

8. In the next pictures you can see the part that is causing the centre detent and the problems when making small adjustments.

Pull out the little Plastic inside the tube and also the spring under it.

 

 

(Thanks to Eponsky_bot for posting the pictures for this step)

 

AND MAKE SURE YOU DIDN'T MOVED THE COGS THAT TRANSLATE THE MOVEMENT DIRECTLY TO THE POTENTIOMETER ONE OR TWO TOOTH FURTHER ACCIDENTALLY !

>>> http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=1785372#post1785372

 

 

9. Optional (can remove your warranty):

You can widen the big spring just a little 2-3mm with the help of a second pilers to get a even smoother transition to the centre.

You can also remove the heavy spring completely and use rubber-bands similar like described in this thread http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=63870

This is recommend for Helicopter simulations - you have no centring force at all in a helicopter - only damping is applied from the hydraulics/mechanic !

 

 

 

10.Optional (can remove your warranty):

You can also remove the two covers between the housing and the left and right pedals to get rid of the annoying scratching noise with a scissor/knife. But be aware that you have to be careful that no small parts/dirt from your shoes will fall in.( I maintain my pedals once every 6 month -I clean them up inside and grease them afterwards with silicone-grease. )

11. Now put everything in the exact reserve order together . Be careful with the wires! Make sure they move freely when you put the backplate on.

 

If you found this useful you may want to check also this:

 

Zoom-In/Zomm-Out on PAC1 to make your life easier !

 

Tweaked Cockpit Views for DCS:A-10C

How to unchain the rudder from trim in DCS-BlackShark

 

corrupt calibration? crazy joystick response? Use this tools Fix it:

 

Drag/Drop and Click-able Radio Communication menu

Edited June 13, 2013 by PeterP

[PeterP]

Thanks to Eponsky_bot for posting the missing pictures of step 8 of the instruction.

So I can finally add them to the instruction

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=1293313#post1293313 :

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 19, 2011 by PeterP

[TulsA-10]

This is a must have mod.. Thank you for the info.. Now the pedels are a lot more smooth.

[PeterP]

Hi TulsA-10,

glad I could be a help!

 

So this instruction works also for the Combat flight rudder pedals (you have them in your sig) ?!

 

Can you confirm that - and if there are big difference - what are these ?

[TulsA-10]

Hi TulsA-10,

glad I could be a help!

 

So this instruction works also for the Combat flight rudder pedals (you have them in your sig) ?!

 

Can you confirm that - and if there are big difference - what are these ?

 

Confirmed working mod with combat pedels! Thanks mate.

[PeterP]

Thanks- so I will edit my #1 post that this will also work for the combat pedals! - and there are no big differences!? (why should they change a running system , heh?)

Edited September 20, 2011 by PeterP

[TulsA-10]

I have both sets of pedals for two different pits and the removal is the same for both. It looks like the only thing that is defferent between the combat and non combat pedals are the foot pedals themself. The internals look the same.

[luckyluca]

I applied the mod to my combat pedals today, now the feel great thank you for your tutorial!

 

p.s.

I kept the scissor plastic bits (the ones to prevent dust coming in) but sprayed silicone grease, it's quite smooth and the plasticky noise less apparent.

Btw how do you take them out without breaking them? :)

 

L

[PeterP]

Thanks !

 

Btw how do you take them out without breaking them? :)

 

L

You will have to disassemble the whole pedals...with wires and so on!

 

I simply used a big scissor and cut them apart to remove them...:P

[Reticuli]

Do the cessna pedals have the detent? And how low can you get the tension on the three different pedal models without removing that spring?

[StiC]

Sorry if this is off topic but you seem to be the people to ask. I have an opportunity to buy a set of these pedals but the tension knob has broken off and I was wondering just how critical is it for these pedals to operate. I am skilled with electronics and mechanics, so I can make some repairs to it but I don't want to have to replace parts if I can help it. Great work on the mod btw. I will certainly be making this change if I get the pedals. Thanks in advance StiC

Edited April 14, 2012 by StiC

[PeterP]

No problem at all -but I have to say that I don't have any experience in fixing a broken tension knob...

It really depends on the "what" is broken.

 

And your post don't gives much clue on this question...;)

 

 

But all I can say is that if the tension/damping is set to zero (a setting i use in BlackShark) - they will behave very similar like the CH-rudders regarding of the movement- the CH have almost no friction on them while moving.

 

 

So If the price is right (and you can't afford new ones)- and you can life with only the centring force of the spring - why not?:)

 

Maybe it only needs some super/hot-glue and a screw to get them fixed again.

Edited April 15, 2012 by PeterP

[StiC]

Thanks for the reply!

 

It turns out that the dampening knob is required to keep the pivot centered. Operating the pedals without it stresses the gear on the pot, which in my case, broke it.

 

When I contacted Madcatz for parts, they offered to fix it for free + 1 way shipping. The pedals were like new, probably a store return, and after all was said and done I paid about half what these pedals were worth.

[WildBillKelsoe]

Hey pete. Does 940 have the same issue? I hear toe brakes are inferior to the combat rudder by saitek's. can you corroborate?:thumbup:

[PeterP]

No, I can't - you really should ask someone that owns the G940.

[wolle]

I made Peter's center-detent modification today. I recommend it, makes rudder fine controll much better. However, instead of the advertised 30 mins, it took me several hours, for the following reason (I post this so that other people won't have to go through this pain in the butt):

 

As you fiddle around and work away on the levers etc. of your rudder, it can easily happen (happened to me) that the gear marked in the attached picture jumps by a tooth or so.

 

The consequence of this is that the calibration of your rudder will be off-center (and I was looking for hours for a software fix to recalibrate the pedal, which is not possible...)

 

B.t.w. I called Saitek, and they claim that the warranty will be null amnd void once you open the unit. That's at least what the guy on the phone claimed.

[rawtoxin]

PeterP,

your advice - as usual - helps to enjoy this game even more. I followed your instructions and all worked well. However, there is a point I would like to add:

This tiny spring with its round plastic-head is there for a reason. It makes sure the pedals re-center at any time - especially if there is just a tiny input. It's there because this is a toy made in a toy fabric. Those pedals have tolerances during assembly process. So, if this small adjustment spring is removed, your pedals may not fully re-center. This may occur especially within small inputs - let's say 5-15% ruder and then let go both pedals, taking off both feet. You cannot feel or see this small deviation on your hardware but you can clearly see it in the software device settings. In case you use rubbers instead of that big spring or simply don't mind that re-center function, you are good to go.

 

In Case you do care, there are two ways to make it fully re-center:

1. install a "deadzone", just a small one, 2-3% that's it.

or

2. and this is what I recommend: Follow step #8 described in PeterPs' instruction because the friction caused by these parts is probably the main reason why this problem might occur.

 

Oh and the issue "Wolle" reported seems important as well! Be carefull or mark those teeth.

Edited January 15, 2013 by rawtoxin

[VapoR]

This is a must-have mod, thanks for this! I was having a horrible time keeping the A-10C straight on takeoff runs (assymetrical loads?) and now I'm good to go!

[Panthro]

this mod took me 20mins tops recommend it, much better feel.

[Kalahari]

Before starting put up a giant 'DON'T FORGET TO CLIP BACK SPRING!!!!' sign on the pedals to avoid an extra half hour cursing.......

[Griffin]

I just broke the gear part off the pot while trying to mount everything back after the mod. Don't ask me how. :D And I'm supposed to maintain jet engines in the morning...

Propably not going get it glued back.

 

Oh well now I have to live with the guilt my spouse makes me feel after I declared I want the Komodo pedals. Hard to justify myself to buy them let alone to her!

[PeterP]

Here is a small update what you can do when you are sick of the plastic feeling and you want to get a little closer to the real-deal when flying the Huey.... :

 

In the meantime I also added pneumatic springs that holds them in place and adds a natural feeling resistance. and its a whole game changer again. (works also fabulous in fixed wing aircrafts and is a pure joy in the P-51d)

 

When you plan it beforehand this modification can be done in less than 40min - just remove the silvercap that is responsible for the friction - you have to pull out first the small saitek-logo in it with a small flat screwdriver - than you will reach screw to remove the cap and the friction mechanism.

 

after that you screw the springs in the middle at the already given holes in the middle(remove the little plastic detends and springs in them) - use about 6cm long screws - as they have to be long enough because the springs are angled in about 7° , so the other end is reaching the base - and than screw on the other end like on my picture. By using short sheet-metal screw (about 4mm in diameter) that also drive into the plastic.

 

Make sure it is all symmetric!

Pic:

 

 

The springs above are used for kitchen doors (or whatever) and cost me 9€ in a local workers store "Hornbach" here in germany.

 

Well - the assembly can sure look better - but this is only a temporally place holder until I completely rebuild new rudders that have force trim function and also a gradual Trim for fixed wing. I will be able to reuse many of the parts.

and until than they sure do their job!

 

>>>>Force-Trim Rudder (WIP and still in conceptual design phase)

Edited May 10, 2013 by PeterP

[Nopileus]

Do you have some details on those dampers? I don't have a Hornbach around here.

 

And what kind of feel do the pedals have with the dampers on, do they still self center?

[PeterP]

Do you have some details on those dampers? I don't have a Hornbach around here.

 

And what kind of feel do the pedals have with the dampers on, do they still self center?

 

 

Well - a search engine is your friend. Search term "Gas springs"

 

 

The feel is very smooth and it has a resistance that it will prevent you from over-reacting , as gas/oil/whatever -springs can only be moved within a certain time amount and their force/resistance is linear. Means : no mater at which position - they always have the same strength. So going from full left to full right can't be done in a fraction of a second. But quick enough for a realistic behaviour of all DCS modules.

 

And no - they are not self centring any-more - but this don't mater because the simulated aircraft tells me how much rudder to use.

Edited May 6, 2013 by PeterP

[outlawal2]

OK anyone have similar advice on how to remove the detent on the Saitek X-52 Pro Throttle / Collective? That detent is KILLING me (Literally) with the Huey... The detent is in EXACTLY the wrong spot, right when you need real fine control while landing... Can't tell you how many times this thing has killed me... (I will continue to blame the throttle /collective until I can get it fixed... THEN I might admit that MAYBE some of the fault is the pilot but right now can't get past the damned collective)