How to fight threats displayed in the ALR?

[dusel]

Hello, I'm into A-10c since several days... i got along very well with the training lessions, the manuals and of course the forums. now i started some single missions where combat actions are needed.

 

For example the mission: River Raider

Where 6 bunkers are located along a river and the defences get better on every bunker... Soon after starting the mission, the ALR displays several threats SAM's AAA's -my question is, how are you fighting them? is there a way to SOI the ALR? Or is this by "guessing" the distance of the threat and then searching them using the TGP? i tried for several hours yesterday. Because, in my opinion i need to wait until I see the SAM launched then i tried to track the launch zone using the TGP but, first you need to be very fast because the missle smoke is not visible so long, and second, trying to find the launching SAM while 2 missles are already on the way to your plane is kind of... not so nice ;)

 

so how do the pros here fight SAM's?

[159th_Viper]

is there a way to SOI the ALR?

 

No - unfortunately not.

 

 

Or is this by "guessing" the distance of the threat and then searching them using the TGP?

 

Useful to keep a guide with you that has the various engagement ranges of SHORAD/MERAD which can aid you as you said in guesstimating the range to the threat.

 

 

Welcome :)

[MadTommy]

so how do the pros here fight SAM's?

 

I'm along way from being a pro.. but.. get the warning from the RWR on your 6 o'clock and bleed the energy from the incoming missile by altering altitude and direction. I tend to climb and weave. But if you are low you can dive and force the missile to hit the ground as it will attempt to predict where you will be at its intercept point.. if this point is below ground level then you are onto a winner!

 

Use this strategy to make the SAM spend its missiles and then kill it when it is relaoding...by this time you should know where it is from the launches.. look for the smoke trails.

 

Having a wingman or two to look for launches is very helpful.. (in multiplayer) I don't play single player.

Edited June 4, 2011 by MadTommy

[dusel]

No - unfortunately not.

 

 

 

 

Useful to keep a guide with you that has the various engagement ranges of SHORAD/MERAD which can aid you as you said in guesstimating the range to the threat.

 

 

Welcome :)

 

Thank you :)

 

so you use a guide to guess the action-range of the threat and then you're searching the them using the TGP along the direction/range right?

 

Thank you tommy for your tip, it goes into what i feared... ;) no way to SOI a threat directly... using the own eyes... *da*n*

 

thanks anyway guys now I know at least on what to work on, and not searching anymore for a "SOI ALR" button :)

[BlackRazor]

Semi cheat option:

 

1) Turn towards the threat you want to eliminate

2) With HUD as SOI move the TDC in the general direction of the threat and make the TDC location your SPI

3) Broadcast the SPI to your wingmen with DMS Left Long

4) Ask your wingman to engage Air Defences near your SPI

5) The wingman should broadcast his SPI, which should be dead on the SAM/AAA site

6) Make TAD SOI, hook the wingman's SPI and then make it your SPI

7) Engage the threat you want to eliminate or let your flight take care of it

[MadTommy]

no way to SOI a threat directly... using the own eyes... *da*n*

 

That is what makes it fun! :thumbup:

[dusel]

sorry guys but I need to get back in here...

 

I tried a few more hours to work things out... sure its not an easy task to fight a threat, but somehow I just wonder how this is done in reality... assuming the ALR displays a thread like a S6 or S8 SAM, what does the pilot do?

 

I know I may not be skilled enough to fight those targets fast enough right now (I'll go on practising...) but anyway to me it seems like you have to wait for a launch, and after that launch you can start fighting against a threat?

 

so... in "real" basically he needs to wait until they fire to figure out where they are right? even if he knows the tracking distance, using the TGP to verify a target seems to be like searching the needle in a haystack, if they are covered and camuflaged and you're in the open sky... or does the pilot cancel the mission and flies back? so another unit can take on the air defences?

 

 

Thank you black razor for your semi-cheat opinion :)

[EtherealN]

I'm along way from being a pro.. but.. get the warning from the RWR on your 6 o'clock and bleed the energy from the incoming missile by altering altitude and direction.

 

This may see very varied results. The A-10 is not fast enough to out-energy a missile, and going tail-on ensures both a clear radar and IR picture for the missile or guiding platform. My preferred method is to use terrain to break lock: place buildings or terrain between you and the guiding platform. I do sometimes use the method you describe, but only if I have a good idea of what weapon was launched on me and got a VID on the launch site so I can judge the distance.

[hassata]

sorry guys but I need to get back in here...

 

I tried a few more hours to work things out... sure its not an easy task to fight a threat, but somehow I just wonder how this is done in reality... assuming the ALR displays a thread like a S6 or S8 SAM, what does the pilot do?

 

I know I may not be skilled enough to fight those targets fast enough right now (I'll go on practising...) but anyway to me it seems like you have to wait for a launch, and after that launch you can start fighting against a threat?

 

so... in "real" basically he needs to wait until they fire to figure out where they are right? even if he knows the tracking distance, using the TGP to verify a target seems to be like searching the needle in a haystack, if they are covered and camuflaged and you're in the open sky... or does the pilot cancel the mission and flies back? so another unit can take on the air defences?

 

 

Thank you black razor for your semi-cheat opinion :)

 

First thing, I would turn on jammer and start the chaff/flare program. I use the 'semi' setting to allow the onboard magical imps choose the best ECM response.

[Sappo]

Also looking for help myself...

 

So to clarify the RWR does show the direction a threat is in relation to your aircraft?

 

But it doesnt show distance , the inner and outter ring are for threat priority?

 

I don't think I have spotted a missle launch yet... maybe my eyes are just that bad?

[EtherealN]

Direction, yes.

Rings are priority and signal strength.

 

The latter of those is the most important to remember. Your equipment cannot passively find distance to an emitter - what it can do is find the strength of the signal it is detecting and if identified possibly do a bit of deduction. But being a passive sensor it cannot give exact data.

[Wayc00lio]

One of the ways to do it would be to point the nose of the jet at the RWR threat, scan the tgp out 5ish miles on your 12 o'clock, turn away and defend if necessary, then get some distance and height then turm around, face the threat again and scan back and forward till you find the threat. Depends what it is of course. SAMs have different ranges. The RWR circles are threat priority. Inside the circle means the threat is within range to shoot and kill with a high PK. Outside the circle means it is not as high a threat and it's PK is low, or indeed non existant. Try searching when the threat is outside the circle. If it comes inside then get away fast and try again.

[NoJoe]

Also if you do spot a missile launch or tracer fire, try to take note of any surrounding landmarks as you turn away. Then once you're at a safe range you can turn back in and begin searching around those landmarks.

 

For example if I see a smoke trail from a SAM I might notice that it's just east of a small town, on the east side of the river, north of that big yellow field.

 

It's a good way to keep track of the general area a threat is in, and makes it easier to find again. Once you gain some distance you can be on the offensive instead of the defensive! :gun_rifle:

 

--NoJoe

[Shez]

This mission is possible without engaging the SAM sites. It's also a great mission for finding SAM sites too! However you want to play it. :D

[dusel]

First thing, I would turn on jammer and start the chaff/flare program. I use the 'semi' setting to allow the onboard magical imps choose the best ECM response.

 

yep the jammer is of course on, i use the automatic setting and program A, which is bad because it blows all flares within a few seconds as soon as a launch is noticed (the program has a 10 times repetition this causes the high amount of flares used i think) so choosing the semi setting and a different program is way better, i'll switch to do this as soon as i am able to handle the rest properly, because right now, running out of flares is not causing my plane shot down...

 

But as you all say here, the ALR just shows you whats around and pointing at your plane...

[BBQ]

AFAIK u always put the RWR indicator on you beam--not your six to make the missle use more energy to acquire the infrared/radar signature sweetspot of your aircraft. maybe this doesn't apply to the hog? any thoughts?

[Frostiken]

Strictly speaking, for IR missiles you should put your belly to them and fire off flares - the A-10's overall design means the engine exhaust isn't visible from below and was one of the selling points of the aircraft, giving it much high survivability against MANPADs as it was harder for them to get and maintain a lock. Whether that's modeled or not I don't know.

[BBQ]

u mean put your nose on it, then pitch up? talk about raising your nose at someone! <end cheese>

[BBQ]

does radar care at all about engines? or does it go for center of aircraft?

[Nu-NRG]

or proximity :D

But i don't know if it is modeled.

[Wayc00lio]

Radar doesn't give a monkeys about engines apart from the returns the engine cowlings will generate, especially poignant to the A10. As for IR missiles, only old IR missiles go for engines. The modern ones go for engines and leading edge heat returns. They are so sensitive that they can detect heat returns from the front of the wings, tail and nose that's why some modern aircraft, especially larger tactical aircraft like the C130s spray complex flare patterns to spoof the modern IR seakers ability to ignore point heat sources like a single or a few flares and favour aeroplane shaped heat sources. Not sure if this is modelled in A10 though. I doubt it. I tried to get info from a Chinook pilot I know about the flare patterns they use but they are classified. Shame - it would have been interesting to find out a bit more about it.

Edited June 7, 2011 by Wayc00lio

[PhiXX]

[...]especially larger tactical aircraft like the C130s spray complex flare patterns to spoof the modern IR seakers ability to ignore point heat sources like a single or a few flares and favour aeroplane shaped heat sources. [...]

Some examples taken from youtube:

 

 

 

 

 

 

and one "pattern" intended for show (I guess). Good to see are the wings' vortices

[Dejjvid]

You will learn to spot launches as you get more familiar with all the systems, then you'll spend more time looking outside then looking for switches and MFCD's.

[Frostiken]

You will learn to spot launches as you get more familiar with all the systems, then you'll spend more time looking outside then looking for switches and MFCD's.

 

The worst is when you're looking for targets on the TPod and go 'What's that black cloud?'

[Shez]

Ah sweet! My wingman just Rifled that SAM launcher! :D