Su-27, Su-33 or MiG-29?

[MoGas]

@mikoyan, watching youtube videos from a airshow and display setup of weight and fuel on a jet. Is missleading if you wanna turn the same rate with a fully loaded MiG, its not gona work, and that how it should be. A clean and light MiG, in FC2.0 turns similar...

[Kuky]

Clean and low on fuel MiG-29 can beat the Eagle and the Flanker, thing is you need to be lucky to have no or almost no weapons and little fuel when you find yourself in a merge, with little fuel MiG-29 can sustain speed much easier and can keep its best turn rate.

 

PS: I have to agree about the R-27R, 15km is just it's max range... 5-10km is where it's right time/distance to use it, it's more agile then R-27ER.

 

against AI you can easy defeat any aircraft with actives if they fire at r-max... you go to gimble and desent straight away when you are expecting a shot and then keep turning and changing altitude constantly, but you should not keep pulling very high G's when doing this... 3-4G is nough and you keep good speed while doing it... as his missiles run out of fuel and are using KE your constant manouvering will bleed its energy much quicker and as it gets close to you the enemy will be well withing range for an R-27R shot and you only need at that time to pull hard into the missile and extend to other side and the same time take your shot... the enemy will have to go defensive straight away and if your missile gets spoofed you fire a follow up shot... and if that one failes also you are already in the merge range and can use HMTS and your cannon :) Only time this will not work if there is secondary enemy coming at you as he is still able to track you and take you out... vs humas... well plenty are smarter then AI, but also some are easier :D

Edited June 10, 2011 by Kuky

[GGTharos]

I beg to differ; the mig should have better instantaneous turn rates; the real thing can point its nose like a hornet;

 

Not quite. The MiG has its own limitations, but in general it should turn better than some other aircraft in the right part of the envelope.

 

probably to do that real pilots override the aoa limiter;[.quote]

 

No, they won't.

 

we can't do that in lock-on. High aoa handling seems to be limited by the flight model.

 

High AoA handling is something the SFM can't really do well, so that's correct. There's really nothing else to it. It affects every aircraft.

[Cali]

I know that F-15 pilots in desert storm where told not to mix it up the Migs because of their turning ability and helmet/R-73 mix. You fly a single jet in FC2 long enough and you'll know what it can and can't do.

[59th_Buncsi]

Not quite. The MiG has its own limitations, but in general it should turn better than some other aircraft in the right part of the envelope.

 

Yes, and that envelope is the altitude. The MiG can turn better than (with the normal engine power) F-18C below 8-9000 meters. Above its engines give less power and the F-16 also turns better.

[GGTharos]

If we're talking sustained turn rate, that is more or less correct. The F-18C can't sustain turns (low TWR) ... as for the F-16, they can fly circles around each other and the MiG will run out of fuel first.

 

Yes, and that envelope is the altitude. The MiG can turn better than (with the normal engine power) F-18C below 8-9000 meters. Above its engines give less power and the F-16 also turns better.

[Vekkinho]

Can say for sure 'cause I didn't pay attention closely but MiGs in FC2 seem a better turners than they were in 1.12... I still have to cross check between 1.12 and 2.0 to make sure.

 

Acceleration and engine power seem a bit downgraded now so supercruising w/o AB and staying level at 17.000m is practicaly impossible which is fine with me as it was far from real. However we again struggle with notorious LOD bug with MiGs which does not only burden the opponent but also prevents MiG pilot from seeing his flight members when flying wide. I certainly hope this gets addressed with 59th Buncsi MiG-29 mod which I crave.

 

Other than that, it only took me a couple of Free Flights (SP) to get used to a FC2 MiG, no major changes 'xcept 4 the slightly different engine management. I remember that full AB in FC1.12 made me be too fast for some sustained turning within cornering speed limits so I always had to hand control the AB keeping it just slightly over the Full Mil detent on my Cougar throttle (cca 101% RPM). Now you can firewall it and forget about it for a while, maintaing the cornering speed with pitch and G.

 

She still accelerates better than any other flyable and climbs faster but also bleeds less speed when suddenly choked to idle RPM in level flights.

 

IMHO, MiG does it's job in a short fights that take 5 minutes to get there, 5 minutes to fight and 5 minutes to RTB. Being lower than it's target and scanning with EOS helps a lot but use of onboard radar ruins your chances of being lethal when up against fighter jets. Thank God for a GCI events over at 51st...

 

Radars are only good when intercepting unprotected attack/tanker/transport aircraft.

[59th_Buncsi]

Acceleration and engine power seem a bit downgraded now so supercruising w/o AB and staying level at 17.000m is practicaly impossible which is fine with me as it was far from real. However we again struggle with notorious LOD bug with MiGs which does not only burden the opponent but also prevents MiG pilot from seeing his flight members when flying wide. I certainly hope this gets addressed with 59th Buncsi MiG-29 mod which I crave.

 

Other than that, it only took me a couple of Free Flights (SP) to get used to a FC2 MiG, no major changes 'xcept 4 the slightly different engine management. I remember that full AB in FC1.12 made me be too fast for some sustained turning within cornering speed limits so I always had to hand control the AB keeping it just slightly over the Full Mil detent on my Cougar throttle (cca 101% RPM). Now you can firewall it and forget about it for a while, maintaing the cornering speed with pitch and G.

 

 

Radars are only good when intercepting unprotected attack/tanker/transport aircraft.

 

Well actually an ex-29 pilot said (since the MiG has been withdrawn from HuAF...): This 29 really close to near, but the real still turns and accelerates better.

BTW i think you think about Krieger's mod. Or not? :)

 

IMHO, MiG does it's job in a short fights that take 5 minutes to get there, 5 minutes to fight and 5 minutes to RTB. Being lower than it's target and scanning with EOS helps a lot but use of onboard radar ruins your chances of being lethal when up against fighter jets.

 

Yes its totally true! Thats what i said before :)

[GGTharos]

Better turning, quite possiblity. Better acceleration? Not enough to feel. This MiG's acceleration IS a little less than the real one, expecially at very high altitudes - it's a limitation of the engine. But it shouldn't be enough to really notice until you fly up to barely sustainable altitudes.

 

This 29 really close to near, but the real still turns and accelerates better.

[mikoyan]

@mikoyan, watching youtube videos from a airshow and display setup of weight and fuel on a jet. Is missleading if you wanna turn the same rate with a fully loaded MiG, its not gona work, and that how it should be. A clean and light MiG, in FC2.0 turns similar...

 

I was comparing low load mig on lock on with airshow migs; if you look at the first video; that one is using a fuel tank on the fuselage.

[mikoyan]

Well actually an ex-29 pilot said (since the MiG has been withdrawn from HuAF...): This 29 really close to near, but the real still turns and accelerates better.

BTW i think you think about Krieger's mod. Or not? :)

 

 

 

Yes its totally true! Thats what i said before :)

 

That is must be right; the real thing seems to turn better; specially on instantaneous turns; why are you guys saying that the pilot on this air shows AREN'T overriding thE aoa limiter? they jus need to pull a little more passing 28 aoa before they get kicked by the tick with -5 degrees of aoa. If you take a close look to the video; most of those pulls don't have lateral inputs, because they don't want to risk entering into a spin; just like the manual says. Just because the charts were followed closer in lock-on it doesn't mean that the aircraft can go beyond what is shows on paper. The americans proved that when the flew the mig-21 without having a manual at hand; they were able to take the mig to tighter turns and to higher alpha than what was recommended on the pilot manual; yes the mig prove to be an airbrake on tight turns; but also had better instantaneous turn performance than most fighters of that era; and could go very slow allowing to snap and get slower than the airplane behind (this probably changed with later models since thy got heavier).

[GGTharos]

Because they would get themselves killed? You don't need to override any AoA limiters to turn well.

[HiJack]

Shit happens, I killed a friendly today using the ET and did not see any "F" for friendly on HUD and launced. I guess you really need to know up front :( sorry to whom ever got killed.

 

(HJ)

[RIPTIDE]

lmao nOOb. use radar for iff. :D

[HiJack]

lmao nOOb. use radar for iff. :D

:doh: :prop:

 

EDIT: But then you cinda blow your cover????

[Cali]

:doh: :prop:

 

EDIT: But then you cinda blow your cover????

 

Either blow your cover or kill a friendly.....your choice. How far away where you when you fired. If you were on his six then you have the upper hand.

[HiJack]

Yes I was under him and had quite good time. Hopfully learned this now.

[Pilotasso]

If your close enough blowing your cover matters little. I think its more fun anyway.

[Vekkinho]

Shit happens, I killed a friendly today using the ET and did not see any "F" for friendly on HUD and launced. I guess you really need to know up front :( sorry to whom ever got killed.

 

(HJ)

 

 

EOS tells no difference firend or foe! Also beware of strayed IR missiles if you've got friendlies in front!

[HiJack]

EOS tells no difference firend or foe! Also beware of strayed IR missiles if you've got friendlies in front!

Yes I know that, it was as RIPTIDE says. It was a n00b move. Shit ;)

[RIPTIDE]

Yes I know that, it was as RIPTIDE says. It was a n00b move. Shit ;)

Hey man, I know you realise this is payback for trolling my 104th MoD thread... but ... it has to be said... you're a nOOb.

 

 

 

 

 

Problem?

[RIPTIDE]

:( sorry to whom ever got killed.

(HJ)

I just checked your stats on the 104th. You TK'd "Vector Zinouka" with an ET..

 

 

I bet you're real mad now, bro. :D:D

 

 

For what it's worth I TK's a guy with guns only a few months back. :D

[HiJack]

Hey man, I know you realise this is payback for trolling my 104th MoD thread... but ... it has to be said... you're a nOOb.

 

 

 

 

 

Problem?

 

Hehe, keep it coming RIP. It was a n00b desition to launch.

It's how ever good to hear that I'm not the only one :P

[FLANKERATOR]

:doh: :prop:

 

EDIT: But then you cinda blow your cover????

 

You wont with a fast IFF check, just switch the radar on for less than a second see if there is any F popping up and then turn it off again, the bandit wont get any lock warning.

[HiJack]

You wont with a fast IFF check, just switch the radar on for less than a second see if there is any F popping up and then turn it off again, the bandit wont get any lock warning.

OK, I was not aware of that!