PeterP Posted October 5, 2011 Author Posted October 5, 2011 FFB is hugely overrated for what it gives and the disavantages that it has. I assume you never had a MS Sidewinder-FFB 2 in your hands while running FC/DCS-BS/A10... If you had - you wouldn't write this. The only thing you can do is to blame logitech for a bad implementation. But saying that FFB is overrated and has disadvantages is just plain wrong.
Maximus_G Posted October 5, 2011 Posted October 5, 2011 Any new, serious stick should have Force Feedback technology. Many people share quite the opposite opinion. Will Cobra have it? No, but if i correctly understand text written here before, King Cobra would have a connectivity option for the vibrating seat mantle, so the tactile effects would be played for your ...body, not the stick.
PeterP Posted October 5, 2011 Author Posted October 5, 2011 (edited) Just to make things clear: I'm (and =4c= Hajduk Veljko also -I did read a lot of his posts about FFB) not talking about effects like shaking, wobbling while firing the guns or on hard landings... - leave these effects to your chair where they belong (...and not to your hand)... -simulated via a Buttkicker or a vibrating seat mantle. When I'm talking about FFB on a Stick I'm talking about to make the stick stiffer on higher speeds and simulating to trim the aircraft in a realistic way. On a MS-Sidewinder this is done properly: The sticks moves slightly forward - when you trim the nose down, and gets a new centre... Same in BlackShark - but here it happens instantly when you release the trim button. And in all Aircraft's I feel my speed on the stick - its almost lose on the Ground but gets stiffer the faster you are and it gets very loose again when you are stalling. ... what is very nice done in FC: When I enter a stall in a SU-27 -the "stall warning" kicks in and the stick starts to shakes periodical to "wake me up" and act against the stall . Edited October 5, 2011 by PeterP 1
4c Hajduk Veljko Posted October 5, 2011 Posted October 5, 2011 The only HOTAS that came out with FFB is crap. FFB is hugely overrated for what it gives and the disavantages that it has. Thats why the highest end serious HOTAS dont have it, like the hog and the X65.The "Hog" has a lots of good looking buttons, but, it does not simulate few of the most basic behaviors of the real stick. The Hog lacks FF, thus, I did not buy it. I don't know how the real stick work in F-16, therefore I can not comment on X-65. But, let me remind you, that so far, none of the simulators we play in FC and DCS uses pressure sensitive stick. Thus, the X-65 is a product that is somewhat lost in time. Sooner or later (I have a feeling it will be soon) somebody will make a good FF stick. Then I'll buy it. Until then, X52-pro rules ... Back to Cobra stick. Well, I wish that it has FF. Thermaltake Kandalf LCS | Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD3R | Etasis ET750 (850W Max) | i7-920 OC to 4.0 GHz | Gigabyte HD5850 | OCZ Gold 6GB DDR3 2000 | 2 X 30GB OCZ Vertex SSD in RAID 0 | ASUS VW266H 25.5" | LG Blue Ray 10X burner | TIR 5 | Saitek X-52 Pro | Logitech G930 | Saitek Pro flight rudder pedals | Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit
Pilotasso Posted October 5, 2011 Posted October 5, 2011 (edited) I assume you never had a MS Sidewinder-FFB 2 in your hands while running FC/DCS-BS/A10... If you had - you wouldn't write this. The only thing you can do is to blame logitech for a bad implementation. But saying that FFB is overrated and has disadvantages is just plain wrong. I had one, and thats not a HOTAS. I had almost all kits except the Cougar, SUMCOM and the X65. Edited October 5, 2011 by Pilotasso .
Pilotasso Posted October 5, 2011 Posted October 5, 2011 The "Hog" has a lots of good looking buttons, but, it does not simulate few of the most basic behaviors of the real stick. The Hog lacks FF, thus, I did not buy it. I don't know how the real stick work in F-16, therefore I can not comment on X-65. But, let me remind you, that so far, none of the simulators we play in FC and DCS uses pressure sensitive stick. Thus, the X-65 is a product that is somewhat lost in time. Sooner or later (I have a feeling it will be soon) somebody will make a good FF stick. Then I'll buy it. Until then, X52-pro rules ... Back to Cobra stick. Well, I wish that it has FF. Juts a question: did you ever had a FFB HOTAS? .
PeterP Posted October 5, 2011 Author Posted October 5, 2011 (edited) Sorry- no offend and nothing personal: If you are only want to talk about "FFB-HOTAS" instead of FFB in general - this thread " Russian style Stick : Defender Cobra M5 USB" is not the right place for it. ;) Edit: And BTW: I was referring to this sentence: "FFB is hugely overrated for what it gives and the disavantages that it has." and I cant see how this makes a differences when you have only a Stick or as set of a Throttle and Stick. What's missing for me is a explanation why you got this impression from FFB regarding to a flight-simulation. My impression is the complete opposite of your statement. ...I was also very disappointed how poorly the the Logitech G940 performs compared to a MS-S.FFB 2 . But I can only hope that there will a stick that combines the complexity of a Cougar/Warthog with a FFB system that is used in the Sidewinder. Edited October 5, 2011 by PeterP
Mustur Posted October 5, 2011 Posted October 5, 2011 Wow very interested in this joystick, just what I was looking for since I'm on a budget. Thanks PeterP for finding this! On FFB: It would be cool to have FFB rudder pedals in BS, I'm always having trouble trimming the rudder. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Sokol1_br Posted October 5, 2011 Posted October 5, 2011 For Force Feedback joystick, the only news: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=64741&highlight=paccus Sokol1_br
PeterP Posted October 5, 2011 Author Posted October 5, 2011 I'm always having trouble trimming the rudder. Don't know what kind of stick you are using and how capable of programming it is - but this is what I have done : How to unchain the rudder from trim You also should be able to use "Autohotkey" (just goggle for it) to program this macro to a button of your choice. And welcome aboard! 1
4c Hajduk Veljko Posted October 5, 2011 Posted October 5, 2011 Juts a question: did you ever had a FFB HOTAS?Back to talking about Cobra. FF is very important to me because it would simulate proper trimming in KA-50 and other FC airplanes, as well as proper shaking of the stick at critical AOA's. Not to mention a feeling of heavier stick as the speed increases. It looks like to me that Cobra is on the right track to be a good joystick. Hopefully, later versions will include FF. Thermaltake Kandalf LCS | Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD3R | Etasis ET750 (850W Max) | i7-920 OC to 4.0 GHz | Gigabyte HD5850 | OCZ Gold 6GB DDR3 2000 | 2 X 30GB OCZ Vertex SSD in RAID 0 | ASUS VW266H 25.5" | LG Blue Ray 10X burner | TIR 5 | Saitek X-52 Pro | Logitech G930 | Saitek Pro flight rudder pedals | Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit
Mustur Posted October 5, 2011 Posted October 5, 2011 Don't know what kind of stick you are using and how capable of programming it is - but this is what I have done : How to unchain the rudder from trim You also should be able to use "Autohotkey" (just goggle for it) to program this macro to a button of your choice. And welcome aboard! Thanks :thumbup: I'll give it a try. Definitely need an upgrade. My current joystick is Logitech extreme 3D :joystick: Is Cobra in serial production? When can we see it outside of Russia? 1 [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Serxio_ Posted October 5, 2011 Posted October 5, 2011 Is Cobra in serial production? When can we see it outside of Russia? No, it's not yet. About buying it outside - i think it's better to ask VKB guys. I would rather be able to appreciate things i cannot have than to have things i am not able to appreciate. © Elbert Hubbard Лучше я буду ценить вещи, которые не могу иметь, чем иметь вещи, которые не могу ценить. (с) Эльберт Хаббарт.
Serxio_ Posted October 5, 2011 Posted October 5, 2011 Back to talking about Cobra. FF is very important to me because it would simulate proper trimming in KA-50 and other FC airplanes, as well as proper shaking of the stick at critical AOA's. Not to mention a feeling of heavier stick as the speed increases. It looks like to me that Cobra is on the right track to be a good joystick. Hopefully, later versions will include FF. Unfortunately in the nearest future VKB won't do FFB joystick.:( I would rather be able to appreciate things i cannot have than to have things i am not able to appreciate. © Elbert Hubbard Лучше я буду ценить вещи, которые не могу иметь, чем иметь вещи, которые не могу ценить. (с) Эльберт Хаббарт.
Maximus_G Posted October 5, 2011 Posted October 5, 2011 Is Cobra in serial production? When can we see it outside of Russia? Cobra (Defender) is surely in serial production. It's in stores now. Second question could be answered only by Defender, i guess. This joy could be bought here at an indernet store and delivered abroad, but that would double its price. King Cobra (VKB) production hasn't started yet. That's both for mod kit and standalone version.
Vekkinho Posted October 5, 2011 Posted October 5, 2011 Very interesting, keep me updated! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
MTFDarkEagle Posted October 5, 2011 Posted October 5, 2011 Very interesting, keep me updated! There's a nifty little feature called "subscribe to this thread"! :D I think that's exactly what your looking for ;) Lukas - "TIN TIN" - 9th Shrek Air Strike Squadron TIN TIN's Cockpit thread
Vekkinho Posted October 5, 2011 Posted October 5, 2011 There's a nifty little feature called "subscribe to this thread"! :D I think that's exactly what your looking for ;) Did that! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
PeterP Posted October 9, 2011 Author Posted October 9, 2011 (edited) Back to talking about Cobra. FF is very important to me because it would simulate proper trimming in KA-50 and other FC airplanes, as well as proper shaking of the stick at critical AOA's. Not to mention a feeling of heavier stick as the speed increases. It looks like to me that Cobra is on the right track to be a good joystick. Hopefully, later versions will include FF. Hello , I'm tiered to wait for a proper FFB-Hotas - and I want to say "thank you" for the discussion we had here - because this was the final reason to start this: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.ph...03#post1302503 An I hope to make it in such a way that I'm able to change the grip to my likings - once the King-cobra is available... :) And BTW: Vettel is F1 World Champion 2011 !!!!! Edited October 9, 2011 by PeterP
PeterP Posted October 9, 2011 Author Posted October 9, 2011 (edited) That's are very good news Sokol1_br !!! :) Finally! Thank you! Out of curiosity : Do you have such a good contact to the developers of the King-Cobra to tell me if I will be able to buy the stick only with the circuit-board - ...without the gimbals/base ?! (...but anyway I'm in love with this stick!:love: - really want to use it with BlackShark) ...updated the post #1 Edited October 9, 2011 by PeterP
Serxio_ Posted October 9, 2011 Posted October 9, 2011 (edited) That's are very good news Sokol1_br !!! :) Finally! Thank you! Out of curiosity : Do you have such a good contact to the developers of the King-Cobra to tell me if I will be able to buy the stick only with the circuit-board - ...without the gimbals/base ?! (...but anyway I'm in love with this stick!:love: - really want to use it with BlackShark) ...updated the post #1 There is no need to be "in a good contact" with developers of the King -Cobra (it's VKB team, by the way). You may ask theme your questions on the forum http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/showthread.php?t=72100&page=7. But you need to do it on Russian :). Edited October 9, 2011 by Serxio_ 1 I would rather be able to appreciate things i cannot have than to have things i am not able to appreciate. © Elbert Hubbard Лучше я буду ценить вещи, которые не могу иметь, чем иметь вещи, которые не могу ценить. (с) Эльберт Хаббарт.
PeterP Posted October 9, 2011 Author Posted October 9, 2011 Thanks for the info! But you need to do it on Russian :). -yes , there my problem begins. I hardly manage to get trough the registration of this forum. - and than I would do this only to make a single post (...) : asking if a member of the VKB team would be so nice and post updates in this thread and/or have a brief look here to answer some of the unanswered questions from time to time...:P :)So- would you be so kind to do it in my name?
Serxio_ Posted October 10, 2011 Posted October 10, 2011 to PeterP: What questions would you like to ask? Go ahead and i'll post theme on russian thread or answer you, if they'v been asked there before. I would rather be able to appreciate things i cannot have than to have things i am not able to appreciate. © Elbert Hubbard Лучше я буду ценить вещи, которые не могу иметь, чем иметь вещи, которые не могу ценить. (с) Эльберт Хаббарт.
PeterP Posted October 10, 2011 Author Posted October 10, 2011 :thumbup:Thanks If a member of the VKB team would be so nice and post updates in this thread and/or have a brief look here to answer some of the unanswered questions from time to time... And finally tell us when it is available and if they ship it worldwide and to what conditions/price.
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